Justin Koschitzke Vs Leigh Brown

[Jimmy 35]

So Brown cant be judged against the first rucks but Kosi who plays on Scarlett Morris Glass the number one full back is judged on that.

Kosi is was and always will be better than Brown.

^ that

 

[PieEyedLad]

Kosi has kicked 6 goals in a game yet apparently he is a spud according to Collingwood supporters.

And Kosi's 6 goal haul was last year, Brown's was in 2004

Sorry but the words Leigh Brown and very good player should not be mentioned in the same sentence, ever.

So by your logic it's Kosi's ability to kick a bag that gets him over the line in this poll?

Brown won't kick 6 at Collingwood, ever. Doesn't mean he's a spud by any means, it means our team is so balanced that we get around 10 goalkickers each week without having to rely on one big man to do all the scoring.

It's a no-brainer. Kosi's St. Kilda's Leon Davis - shows glimpses throughout the season, but is absolutely nowhere to be seen when it really matters.

 

[TownleyTime]

Kosi has kicked 6 goals in a game yet apparently he is a spud according to Collingwood supporters.

Where did I say Kosi was a spud?

He has elite talents but for such a player, he didn't impose himself on the game like Leroy.

Kosi is St. Kilda's 2nd main target. Leroy plays as a Mr. Fixit, Jolly needs a spell in the ruck, he goes there, Presti goes down on a Jono Brown, Leroy goes there, etc, etc.

Leroy has as much talent as Kosi & has more strings to his bow.

Leroy also imposes himself on the game, Kosi imposes himself on himself.

[youtube]L9c_KM0FlGw[/youtube]
[youtube]v=iBSvNi-sS7A[/youtube]

 

[the distributer]

See if it was Cloke or Kosi well then Cloke gets the nod. But Brown please, hes a bits and pieces player that most likely will be dropped 6 games in to 2011 as he returns to his long term form. What Collingwood supporters have to understand as that one season doesnt over shadow years of complete crap.

compared to years of brilliant football from kosi?

i actually saw a post of yours that didnt mention collingwood in some way last night, couldnt believe it, there's really no need to post your opinions on this board regarding anything to do with collingwood mate, we already know no collingwood player is worthy of VFL selection in your eyes.

 

[DarwinRoo]

So by your logic it's Kosi's ability to kick a bag that gets him over the line in this poll?

Brown won't kick 6 at Collingwood, ever. Doesn't mean he's a spud by any means, it means our team is so balanced that we get around 10 goalkickers each week without having to rely on one big man to do all the scoring.

It's a no-brainer. Kosi's St. Kilda's Leon Davis - shows glimpses throughout the season, but is absolutely nowhere to be seen when it really matters.

No, what gets Kosi over the line is that he is a better player than Brown and has easily had the better career.

You said that Brown is not a dud because he kicked 6 goals 6 years ago, yet Kosi is labelled a dud by some Collingwood supporters despite kicking 6 goals in a match just last year. Doesn't seem to be a case of what's good for the goose is what's good for the gander, does it.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Kosi's best is better than Browns best.

Yes, but Brown's average in his current role is better than Kosi's average.

Brown has only one role he can fill in the Collingwood side; 2nd ruck, and he's playing it really well.

Kosi has only one role he can fill in the St. Kilda side; full-time ruckman, and he's not being allowed to play it. Hence he's useless.

 

[The Finger]

Yes, but Brown's average in his current role is better than Kosi's average.

Brown has only one role he can fill in the Collingwood side; 2nd ruck, and he's playing it really well.

Kosi has only one role he can fill in the St. Kilda side; full-time ruckman, and he's not being allowed to play it. Hence he's useless.

Kosi's 80 goals in the last two seasons suggest otherwise.

 

[jonbe54]

Kosi's 80 goals in the last two seasons suggest otherwise.

How many goals in finals

 

[The Finger]

How many goals in finals

I wouldnt be bringing up the finals arguement when defending Leigh Brown......

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Kosi's 80 goals in the last two seasons suggest otherwise.

He kicked 60% more goals (48) in 2009 than 2010 (30, his equal-high excluding 2009), and went from polling 11 Brownlow votes to 0.

Even then his 2009 return of 48 goals in his 9th career season (seeing as you're using this as your basis for his worth as a player) was less than John Anthony's return in his 4th season (one of which he missed with a severe neck injury). And how's Anthony's value sitting right now?

You've got to move with the times.

 

[jonbe54]

I wouldnt be bringing up the finals arguement when defending Leigh Brown......

I was neither lauding nor defending brown sunshine

You brought up Kosi's goals not me - put up or shut up.

 

[The Finger]

I was neither lauding nor defending brown sunshine

You brought up Kosi's goals not me - put up or shut up.

He gave the best fullback in the AFL a touch up in the first half against Geel then he nullified Jolly in th GF. Brown gave away more frees than he had kicks in the GF's.

 

[The Finger]

He kicked 60% more goals (48) in 2009 than 2010 (30, his equal-high excluding 2009), and went from polling 11 Brownlow votes to 0.

Even then his 2009 return of 48 goals in his 9th career season (seeing as you're using this as your basis for his worth as a player) was less than John Anthony's return in his 4th season (one of which he missed with a severe neck injury). And how's Anthony's value sitting right now?

You've got to move with the times.

But yet in Browns ten years of nil return in any position is forgotten due to him having a half decent season. But we can't judge Brown against any of the decent ruckman as he's only a back up!

As for Kosi's goals if we are to believe what we read he played the season with a serious ankle injury. At any rate he still ended up with 8 less goals than Cloke.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If Brown were judged against any of the decent ruckmen he would pale in comparison. When measured against Koschitzke however, who is a decent ruckman when played there for an hour per season, but otherwise plays as a decoy forward... he goes particularly well on recent results.

As for playing with an injury, so what, if that's even true... well everyone is playing injured. Didak played the latter part of the season with his pectoral muscle torn off the bone, he still managed a pretty decent finals series.

 

[The Finger]

If Brown were judged against any of the decent ruckmen he would pale in comparison. When measured against Koschitzke however, who is a decent ruckman when played there for an hour per season, but otherwise plays as a decoy forward... he goes particularly well on recent results.

As for playing with an injury, so what, if that's even true... well everyone is playing injured. Didak played the latter part of the season with his pectoral muscle torn off the bone, he still managed a pretty decent finals series.

Kosi plays on the best fullbacks in the AFL in Scarlett Harris Glass and is judged on that. If StKilda didn't have a alternate ruckman as Collingwood didn't he would ruck. As it was he doesn't. Kosi is a far better ruckman than Brown. So please tell us why Brown is of more value? Remembering that Brown has failed to hold down any one position in ten years of AFL.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Simply put, Brown is currently more effective playing his allocated role than Kosi is in his. Whether Kosi could beat Brown in the ruck is not terribly relevant given that Kosi rarely if ever plays in the ruck. Nor do the past 10 years matter overly much, given the rate at which the game is changing, and that nearly all of those 10 years in Leigh Brown's case were spent playing different roles at different clubs, and that 2010 was one of Kosi's worst seasons in his career to date.

 

[The Finger]

Simply put, Brown is currently more effective playing his allocated role than Kosi is in his. Whether Kosi could beat Brown in the ruck is not terribly relevant given that Kosi rarely if ever plays in the ruck. Nor do the past 10 years matter overly much, given the rate at which the game is changing, and that nearly all of those 10
years in Leigh Brown's case were spent playing different roles at different clubs, and that 2010 was one of Kosi's worst seasons in his career to date.

The question is who's better. Mitch Clarke is a fantastic ruckman but wasn't required to play there that often this season. Does that make Brown better? What about Ryder? Kosi is a good ruckman that plays a team role as a key forward in both position he is better than Brown.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

Lets look at the stats this year

Averages

Brown

disposals 12.2
Goals 1.1
Marks 4.5
Hitouts 4.9
Goal assists 0.5
Tackles 4.1
Frees for 0.9
Frees against 2.0

Koschitzke

Disposals 10.1
Goals 1.4
Marks 4.7
Hitouts 3.0
Goal assists 0.3
Tackles1.7
Frees for 1.0
Frees against 1.3

Now I have seen a lot more of Brown this year then Koschitzke. I would say that Brown rucks 20% of the time and is in the forward line 70% of the time with 10% bench (just rough guess work). I would guess that Koschitzke would be forward 90% of the time this year with 5% ruck and 5% bench time. So the majority of their time would be spent in the forward line.
If you add their goals and goal assists up there is very little difference between the two of them. Koschitzke spends a little more time up forward and impacts on the goals a little more. Brown picks up a few more disposals. Brown gives away more free kicks due to more aggression. I think the major difference for me would be that Brown chases a lot harder and this is shown to some extent with having more then double the tackles compared to Koschitzke. This is one of the reasons that he fits well into Collingwood's team at the moment and the reason why this season I would have picked him over Koschitzke.

 

[The Finger]

Lets look at the stats this year

Averages

Brown

disposals 12.2
Goals 1.1
Marks 4.5
Hitouts 4.9
Goal assists 0.5
Tackles 4.1
Frees for 0.9
Frees against 2.0

Koschitzke

Disposals 10.1
Goals 1.4
Marks 4.7
Hitouts 3.0
Goal assists 0.3
Tackles1.7
Frees for 1.0
Frees against 1.3

Now I have seen a lot more of Brown this year then Koschitzke. I would say that Brown rucks 20% of the time and is in the forward line 70% of the time with 10% bench (just rough guess work). I would guess that Koschitzke would be forward 90% of the time this year with 5% ruck and 5% bench time. So the majority of their time would be spent in the forward line.
If you add their goals and goal assists up there is very little difference between the two of them. Koschitzke spends a little more time up forward and impacts on the goals a little more. Brown picks up a few more disposals. Brown gives away more free kicks due to more aggression. I think the major difference for me would be that Brown chases a lot harder and this is shown to some extent with having more then double the tackles compared to Koschitzke. This is one of the reasons that he fits well into Collingwood's team at the moment and the reason why this season I would have picked him over Koschitzke.

Considering Brown spent a majority of his game time running around unacountable as a follower those stats really do him no favours. I was expecting a lot more in the stats department as his ruckwork is poor at best.

 

[Donakebab]

In Brown's best season and in one of Kosi's worst they have fairly even stats, good to know.

 

[jonbe54]

He gave the best fullback in the AFL a touch up in the first half against Geel then he nullified Jolly in th GF. Brown gave away more frees than he had kicks in the GF's.

That has nothing to do with his finals goal kicking does it sunshine?

You brought his goal kicking up not me and now you skip away from his finals goal kicking.

 

[the distributer]

Kosi plays on the best fullbacks in the AFL in Scarlett Harris Glass and is judged on that. If StKilda didn't have a alternate ruckman as Collingwood didn't he would ruck. As it was he doesn't. Kosi is a far better ruckman than Brown. So please tell us why Brown is of more value? Remembering that Brown has failed to hold down any one position in ten years of AFL.

brown can play KPB/KPF/ruck/even a heavy handed clearance player if needed, much more versatile than kosi, FWIW, brown's been pretty good the entire time he's been with us, been dropped a few times but thats understandable seeing he didnt really know his role, but for what we paid for him he's been outstanding IMO.

 

[The Finger]

brown can play KPB/KPF/ruck/even a heavy handed clearance player if needed, much more versatile than kosi, FWIW, brown's been pretty good the entire time he's been with us, been dropped a few times but thats understandable seeing he didnt really know his role, but for what we paid for him he's been outstanding IMO.

Theres a massive differance between being named in a position and being able to play it. Brown has had his best in eleven years and Kosi basically his worst yet there figures are almost identical.

Nice excuse for being dropped there to. Must try that one at selection.

 

[the distributer]

Theres a massive differance between being named in a position and being able to play it. Brown has had his best in eleven years and Kosi basically his worst yet there figures are almost identical.

Nice excuse for being dropped there to. Must try that one at selection.

if kosi played for us he wouldnt get a game so we wouldnt be able to drop him.

brown's a jack of all trades master of none, versatility is his middle name, for some reason mick knows how to get the best out of him.

remember also, brown was a top 10 NDP so the ability's always been there.

 

[The Finger]

if kosi played for us he wouldnt get a game so we wouldnt be able to drop him.

brown's a jack of all trades master of none, versatility is his middle name, for some reason mick knows how to get the best out of him.

remember also, brown was a top 10 NDP so the ability's always been there.

Yes of course youd play a bloke in Dawes that has less ability and goals than Kosi this and last season.Kosi would play before Dawes at FF.

Second Kosi would have been your first ruck in front of Fraser Wood and Brown until the arival of Jolley were he would have played Browns role only with much better results.