Khawaja v Marsh

[Admiral Byng]

He said shield and ODD not BBL.

There's no shield matches going on right now, it's all Big Bash League for the rest of the month. Shield cricket doesn't resume till February, about a fortnight after the test series is over. Bit hard to expect someone to find form in the shield when it's not happening. There is only BBL right now.

 

[Portmanteau]

Would like to see:

1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. Watson
4. Ponting
5. Clarke
6. Hussey

moving forward. With Usman to replace the first of Ponting or Hussey to go.

 

[CHIEF SMACKAHOE]

if we're talking talent then you have to take khawaja. much more talented than marsh and his fc record proves it (as does watching him play)

 

[Chimera]

if we're talking talent then you have to take khawaja. much more talented than marsh and his fc record proves it (as does watching him play)

Yeah dont agree with that at all.

Marsh has all the shots, just needs to work on his application at the grease and start grafting runs a bit more to get himself started.

Khawaja is limited on the front foot and is easily bound by a decent line and length full and on the offside.

He just doesnt have the game, namely a reliable cover drive to make it at test level just yet.

Alot has to do with his low set up.

 

[PykeDream]

People who want Marsh: From WA

People who want Khawaja: Everyone else

Basically. Although for the record I'm West Australian and Khawaja is my favourite player. Not that I don't like Marsh but I really believe that Khawaja should not have been dropped.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Yes i know, but its domestic cricket and he bats high in the order. Not exactly knocking the door down.

T20 ffs.

Khawaja's played one NSW shield match this year, got a ton, and one ODD match, got a ton. He goes to NSW and scores runs. He hasnt dominated a test side just yet but he's shown promising signs in both shots played and his willingness to knuckle down. He's definately got stuff to work on (mainly ticking the strike over rather than getting bogged down) but considering he does that in shield cricket it'll come with confidence in his position in the test arena.

We were discussing Ian Bell and Amla at the club last night, how they've both become very good players, and basically saying how it's your second run of tours that you will often start to cash in. Test cricket is a fair adjustment and just because someone doesnt smack a ton on debut doesnt mean they arent worth sticking with.

Oh and Khawaja vs one of the best attacks in the world
[youtube]oa5cAXmtdTw[/youtube]

 

[dan warna]

I don't see an issue with pursuing both players.

Watson, Punter and Hussey have a limited time.

Marsh looks terrible atm, but I see 3 batting slots up for grabs in the next 12 months.

Also cowan isn't that young either and his labouring for his runs as tight as he looks. i throw up the example of Hayden and Hussey who had to work longer and harder than many others for their baggy greens.

 

[psychobrown]

It is a bit of a flip of the coin, but I went with The Us-Man over the alkie for now. I do agree both need some time to really see how they fare at international level. When Ponting and Hussey stop being greedy, we can actually observe these experiments rather than speculate on them.

 

[R00StaR]

T20 ffs.

It was good enough for Warner to launch from and the comp is being dominated by guys that can actually bat. Bowling depth is greater with the likes of Nannes, Tait, Lee playing Vs SS with 3 roughly 3 top line quicks injured at a time with another 3-4 on international duties.

Khawaja's played one NSW shield match this year, got a ton, and one ODD match, got a ton. He goes to NSW and scores runs. He hasnt dominated a test side just yet but he's shown promising signs in both shots played and his willingness to knuckle down. He's definately got stuff to work on (mainly ticking the strike over rather than getting bogged down) but considering he does that in shield cricket it'll come with confidence in his position in the test arena.

We were discussing Ian Bell and Amla at the club last night, how they've both become very good players, and basically saying how it's your second run of tours that you will often start to cash in. Test cricket is a fair adjustment and just because someone doesnt smack a ton on debut doesnt mean they arent worth sticking with.

Oh and Khawaja vs one of the best attacks in the world
[youtube]oa5cAXmtdTw[/youtube]

Completely agree with the rest, Bell and Amla are good examples. Bell always had massive talent but couldnt put it on the scoreboard. Showed glimpses here and there. One thing the Poms did however is they stuck with him for extended periods. Listening to some x-pommy cricketer a while back they put much down to Bell simply wanting it too much, he needed to learn to relax and let his game flow a bit more while at the crease. I feel Marsh is much the same, without the time on his side unfortunately. His game seems to flow better when he isnt as worried about losing his wicket.

Remember Watson, technically very sound but played almost robotic. Geez people wanted him executed time and time again let alone dropped. Sometimes players need care less about their wickets to get the best out of themselves.

Given Marsh's talent, age and the poor state of Australian batting dept, I think we'd be crazy to not stick with him. Khawaja has the talent to make it, i have little doubt he will, but he also has more time. We'll have a number of spots to fill, there should be room for both. For now however, id be sticking with Marsh. Having watched shitloads of cricket and playing for 20 years i know a serious talent when i see it. Its just a matter if he can do as Bell and Watson have done and convert it into consistent performance.

 

[aussie1st]

Marsh has always had all the potential in the world and is the ideal number 3 on paper. However as we have seen throughout his career it is the consistency which is the issue and it is starting to reek up to this level. He'll get the Adelaide test unless Watson is fit and he'll need to do something as Watson will be back next series and atm he is first one off.

Khawaja is talented and consistency hasn't been much of an issue for him so far however stepping up to the next level has been a problem. He averages 21 in 5 matches for Australia A to go with his test average. He'll get a good run when Hussey/Ponting depart but he'll need to step up as we can't carry him on potential forever.

 

[aussierulesrules]

but of course if he makes runs on the flattest deck in the world he should stay in the team. he's an average fc batsman and shouldn't even have been picked in the first place

That's true. He did make a big hundred (141) and look a million $ on that pitch. But everyone made runs on that pitch, in that match, so it doesn't count.

No wait. Sri Lanka got bowled out for just 171 just before Marsh went in to bat and Watson, Clarke, Haddin and Hughes made only 84 between them in the same innings Marsh made his 141 (with no-one else but Hussey, for either team, making more than 69, in the three innings of the match).

Well, at least it was super-easy in his next innings, when he made an excellent 81. Oh no, wait. Watson, Clarke, Hughes, Johnson and Siddle (who have a combined test batting average of 158) made 22 between them, while Marsh ground out a hard fought 81, off 207 balls, with Hussey again being the only other one to pass 50.

Ok, well at least batting was piss-easy in the next test, when he made 44, against Sth Africa. Oh no, wait. Watson, Hughes, Ponting, Hussey and Haddin (who have a combined test batting average of over 200) made 26 between them in the same innings and we then bowled Sth Africa out for 96, before slumping to 9 for 21 in our second innings. Shit, I could have made 44 then, by the sound of it!

So he clearly can only bat when it's super-easy and obviously can't grind out an innings, as evidenced by him facing only 623 balls in those three innings I mentioned.

As for his current form, at least it's a really good idea to judge someone on how they go when they've only played one game in 6 weeks, leading into a big series, with that game being in a completely different format. Oh no, wait....

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

That's true. He did make a big hundred (141) and look a million $ on that pitch. But everyone made runs on that pitch, in that match, so it doesn't count.

No wait, Watson, Clarke, Haddin and Hughes made only 84 between them in the same innings and Jayawardene and Dilshan only made 95 between them, for their 4 innings for the match (with no-one else but Hussey, for either team, making more than 69, in the three innings of the match).

Well, at least it was super-easy in his next innings, when he made an excellent 81. Oh no, wait. Watson, Clarke, Hughes, Johnson and Siddle (who have a combined test batting average of 158) made 22 between them, while Marsh ground out a hard fought 81, off 207 balls, with Hussey again being the only other one to pass 50.

Ok, well at least batting was piss-easy in the next test, when he made 44, against Sth Africa. Oh no, wait. Watson, Hughes, Ponting, Hussey and Haddin (who have a combined test batting average of over 200) made 26 between them in the same innings and we then bowled Sth Africa out for 96, before slumping to 9 for 21 in our second innings.

So he clearly can only bat when it's super-easy and obviously can't grind out an innings, as evidenced by him facing only 623 balls in those three innings I mentioned.

As for his current form, at least it's a really good idea to judge someone on how they go when they've only played one game in 6 weeks, with that game being in a completely different format. No, wait....

Marsh needs time in the middle and he isn't going to get it by only batting once per test.

If India weren't so shit, he would be getting another dig to find some form.

 

[PykeDream]

Marsh needs time in the middle and he isn't going to get it by only batting once per test.

If India weren't so shit, he would be getting another dig to find some form.

He's got to take his chances though, he knew India were on the ropes when he came into bat - there was as little pressure on him as you're ever going to get as a test batsman yesterday. Still he pushes at the ball outside off (again) and off he goes having ruined another opportunity. A lack of chances is not something that can be blamed too heavily.

 

[tek87]

As far as talent goes, I will defer to mickey arthur's judgment in that Marsh has more. Though i am not a great fan of either. Marsh should stick to his ipl money and Khawaja should stop boring test cricket with his plodding and lack of shots, and can he take that borefest Cowan with him.

 

[maelcoluim]

Long term I see Khawaja as a very reliable opener or number 3. Would like to see Marsh succeed at international level but his relatively modest FC career so far doesn't leave me with a lot of confidence

 

[Baby_Jenks]

Marsh is only there to give players like Ferguson, M.Marsh and Smith hope. Apparently averaging high 30s is enough to be considered bashing the door down for the test side.

 

[BarneyBent]

Marsh is only there to give players like Ferguson, M.Marsh and Smith hope. Apparently averaging high 30s is enough to be considered bashing the door down for the test side.

Smith averages 44 at domestic FC level.

 

[thecatattack]

As far as talent goes, I will defer to mickey arthur's judgment in that Marsh has more. Though i am not a great fan of either. Marsh should stick to his ipl money and Khawaja should stop boring test cricket with his plodding and lack of shots, and can he take that borefest Cowan with him.

Maybe you should stick to the ipl and not watch test cricket.

 

[dajesmac]

Smith averages 44 at domestic FC level.

True. But he is shit.

 

[Selective Retention]

Smith averages 44 at domestic FC level.

Would be sub 30 since he scored half a dozen tons in his first season?

 

[Slax]

well i sure as hell don't. ponting and haddin should be long gone.

You're kidding, Ponting has 2nd most runs this series, more scores of 50+ than anyone and you're saying he should be gone.

Haddin however is a different story, not sure how he still gets a game. Must admit though did enjoy seeing him get a duck, especially after his stupid comments before the test match.

Back on topic, Watson over both Khawaja & Marsh. Neither of them has shown the consistency need at test level. Marsh has been very disappointing this series & Khawaja keeps getting starts but never converts.

 

[King Elvis]

I really like Marsh, so it saddens me to say- I see so much Marcus North about him

Exactly how I see it, but North was probably more deserving of a shot.

Marsh has never set the world on fire, he's now too old (considering he hasn't ever really dominated) considering we're meant to be rebuilding, and he's constantly injured.

He's not the guy you put at #3 and build your line-up around for the next decade.

Khawaja might not be either, but he sure as hell deserves an extended run to prove it.

 

[Bomber Bears]

Marsh needs time in the middle and he isn't going to get it by only batting once per test.

If India weren't so shit, he would be getting another dig to find some form.

If he hadnt been dismissed for 0, 3, 0, 11 he'd be getting some time in the middle to find some form.

 

[Slattery_20]

Would like to see:

1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. Watson
4. Ponting
5. Clarke
6. Hussey

moving forward. With Usman to replace the first of Ponting or Hussey to go.

Agree a million.

 

[Thommo 42]

Would like to see:

1. Warner
2. Cowan
3. Watson
4. Ponting
5. Clarke
6. Hussey

moving forward. With Usman to replace the first of Ponting or Hussey to go.