Kreuzer getting drafted as a forward

[TheHeatleyStand]

Just can't see it myself. I reckon Hampson has more of a chance of filling that role of roaming CHF than Kreuzer does.

Hmpson at this stage doesnt have the smarts.

Watch Kreuzer a kick behind the ball ... and how he reads whats going on up the ground... he understands the game... and he has the motor and the power.

Its rare to see a big man understand the game as well as Kreuzer... he is always at the right spot... hes rarely in the wrong position an he drives himself to be there.

He can take a mark... he can run all day... his skills are very good..he is unbelievable below his knees..and his second third and fourth efforts are next to none..

Personally i think he can do it all for a tall..

I look at his understanding of the game and his god given talent and athleticism and there is not much i dont beieve he can do.

If people tink HAmpson is going to be a gun ruckman... i beieve Kreuzer looks more likely.. thats not to say i dont think Hampson will make it .. i think he will... but if people can really claim Hampson will make it but theyre unsure of Kreuzer i think they are kidding themselves...

Kreuzer is much more advanced in every facet of playing football

 

[HBF]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one mate. I've seen Kreuzer about a dozen times this year, and as an 18yo, I just don't see him turning into this type of player. Just lacks the athletisism for mine.

 

[Sezzac1]

Do you want me to underline 'practically' for you next time??

Yeah that word is like statistics.........................you can make them/it mean anything to suit an argument

Like...........He's practically the #1........or Like.........He was practically the best player for VM.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one mate. I've seen Kreuzer about a dozen times this year, and as an 18yo, I just don't see him turning into this type of player. Just lacks the athletisism for mine.

Ok ill take that...

I dont agree. but i will take it...

 

[windows]

I've seen Kreuzer about 12 times this year, and I cannot see where the Riewoldt comparison has come from. He'll be a terrific round-the-ground old fashioned follower, reasonable in the ruck, and he can go forward and rest in the FP, perhaps like a Josh Fraser up there as well.

But I cannot see him turning into that roaming CHF, that leads up all day and takes marks on the wing.

Yeah I agree. Which makes you wonder why we'd draft him. Yeah he will be a good solid ruckman. He will also get a few more possessions than the normal ruckman does. But really, will those possessions turn or win games?

Number one picks should EXCEL at something that wins games. Contested or fantastic leading marking. Large numbers of contested possessions in midfield. Freakish abilities at something. Cotch has it. Kreuzer doesn't.

This is a joke. Becoming more annoying by the day.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Yeah I agree. Which makes you wonder why we'd draft him. Yeah he will be a good solid ruckman. He will also get a few more possessions than the normal ruckman does. But really, will those possessions turn or win games?

Number one picks should EXCEL at something that wins games. Contested or fantastic leading marking. Large numbers of contested possessions in midfield. Freakish abilities at something. Cotch has it. Kreuzer doesn't.

This is a joke. Becoming more annoying by the day.

Cupido had freakish abilites also..

And just cos you twoagree or something doesnt mean the rest of the world is wrong...

 

[Sezzac1]

Yeah I agree. Which makes you wonder why we'd draft him. Yeah he will be a good solid ruckman. He will also get a few more possessions than the normal ruckman does. But really, will those possessions turn or win games?

Number one picks should EXCEL at something that wins games. Contested or fantastic leading marking. Large numbers of contested possessions in midfield. Freakish abilities at something. Cotch has it. Kreuzer doesn't.

This is a joke. Becoming more annoying by the day.

You or the discussion

 

[Sezzac1]

I'm saying the jury is out on whether Kreuzer can ruck at AFL level.

He is slightly undersized for a ruckman, and others have criticised his tapwork. He may have carried the Knights, but he was also playing against boys.

There may not have been a single AFL starting standard ruckman amongst the group he played; statistically, you'd think it unlikely that more than 1 or 2 decent AFL ruckmen would come out of a single TAC cup comp.

In the AFL, he's going to have to ruck against guys like Lade, Cox etc; they're all physical freaks (as he is), and it'll come down to smarts and technique. Neither of those are proven in his case.

What jury is that actually. Are you talking about 12 wise men from BF??? if not then some names might give you some cred.

Undersized at 199.5 with long arms (per DC results) and a half decent leap. Yeap he is struggling there.

Who are these 'Others' that criticise his tap work? Is that the same 12 wise men from BF you have on the jury?

He was playing against boys that were his same age and taller at times yet he still managed to come in 2nd in the TAC for the total number of tapouts. Plenty of ruckman went to draft camp and he beat them all in the ruck. If the others were boys, what is the Kruez? Middle aged perhaps?

So finally you want to compare an 18 yr old with the likes of a 30 year old Lade and late 20's Cox and you think he might struggle against them. Who wouldn't? They are premier Ruckman in the Comp! I didn't see Leuenberger dominating them in 2007 but perhaps I missed those game. You are a dead set rocket scientist with you insights.

Your arguments are sadly lacking in any substance and based on extremely vague supposition. By all means feel free to have a crack at Kreuser but atleast give us something of value to discuss.

And if/when you reply don't bother to have a crack at me. Put your efforts into finding some facts as to why Kreuser is not up to being a #1.

 

[HBF]

If WH calls out say Matthew Kreuzer at selection 1, and then calls out Trent Cotchin before Richmond have their second pick, does that mean we can have both players?

 

[Salaryman]

If WH calls out say Matthew Kreuzer at selection 1, and then calls out Trent Cotchin before Richmond have their second pick, does that mean we can have both players?

YES

 

[Big Delut]

If WH calls out say Matthew Kreuzer at selection 1, and then calls out Trent Cotchin before Richmond have their second pick, does that mean we can have both players?

The sad thing is some people on this site would actually believe that, judging from some of the things i've read recently.

 

[Salaryman]

COOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooootchiIN

 

[Salaryman]

Yeah that word is like statistics.........................you can make them/it mean anything to suit an argument


Like...........He's practically the #1........or Like.........He was practically the best player for VM.

Like you are 'practically' making a good point?


I just watched that game again tonight.....3rd time in a week. .....Cotchin's skills in the wet stood out over anybody's. Kreuzer playing as RR did better in that role than anybody of 200cm could....but watch what they both do when they get the ball. Both are awesome below the knees....Kreuzer on the surface seems more impressive as he is a 200cm bloke doing that....but only one of them gathers.....balances...takes some steps, gets some space and delivers to advantage given the wet conditions........*hint* it is the smaller bloke

If Kreuz had the poise and disposal of Cox I would be happier....if you can convice me that could be worked on I would have him #1.

 

[Salaryman]

Kreuser is a very valid #1.......extremely valid.......just Cotchin is a bit more valider , then going and getting Judd and Hadley might make Kreuzer validest

(practically speaking)

 

[Big Delut]

Kreuser is a very valid #1.......extremely valid.......just Cotchin is a bit more valider , then going and getting Judd and Hadley might make Kreuzer validest

(practically speaking)

You are a pisser Gilly

 

[Salaryman]

Don't know about a pisser, but I am crtinyl pissed

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

Like you are 'practically' making a good point?


I just watched that game again tonight.....3rd time in a week. .....Cotchin's skills in the wet stood out over anybody's. Kreuzer playing as RR did better in that role than anybody of 200cm could....but watch what they both do when they get the ball. Both are awesome below the knees....Kreuzer on the surface seems more impressive as he is a 200cm bloke doing that....but only one of them gathers.....balances...takes some steps, gets some space and delivers to advantage given the wet conditions........*hint* it is the smaller bloke

If Kreuz had the poise and disposal of Cox I would be happier....if you can convice me that could be worked on I would have him #1.

Is Cotchin BETTER than Judd... cos by reading you bokes youd have to think so...

What was Cox like aged 18???
Can you tell me???

 

[DonFletch]

Is Cotchin BETTER than Judd... cos by reading you bokes youd have to think so...

What was Cox like aged 18???
Can you tell me???

dont know hat cox was like at 18...but dont even think he got drafted! think he went to wce as a rookie.

 

[HBF]

Like you are 'practically' making a good point?


I just watched that game again tonight.....3rd time in a week. .....Cotchin's skills in the wet stood out over anybody's. Kreuzer playing as RR did better in that role than anybody of 200cm could....but watch what they both do when they get the ball. Both are awesome below the knees....Kreuzer on the surface seems more impressive as he is a 200cm bloke doing that....but only one of them gathers.....balances...takes some steps, gets some space and delivers to advantage given the wet conditions........*hint* it is the smaller bloke

If Kreuz had the poise and disposal of Cox I would be happier....if you can convice me that could be worked on I would have him #1.

You need to get out a bit more Gilly. Three times in a week. Bloody hell.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

You need to get out a bit more Gilly. Three times in a week. Bloody hell.

Whenever we win a game (which is a pretty rare occurance lately) I watch the replay a few times over.

... but under 18 games ... S

 

[Salaryman]

I was giving this some more thought last night. And while I still rate cotchin slightly ahead as the better player, I can see some arguments for playing Kreuzer in a tall CHF role a-la Kosi. With the midfiled we are assembling, we could possibly negate the need for a lead-up, lead-back, lead-up again chf like Riewoldt, the pace of the game thse days we could play a 2 tall forward line of Fevola and Fisher/Setanta whoever. Kreuz could line up at CHF but essentially roam between the arcs playing as a tall ruck rover, providing match up nghtmares forcing his opponent to do a lot of running and dragging his opponenet away from our f50.

 

[Silvagnis]

COOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooootch

Gilly, Cotchin doesn't exactly have the best surname for doing that.

Kreuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuzer! works better.

 

[Salaryman]

Gilly, Cotchin doesn't exactly have the best surname for doing that.

Kreuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuzer! works better.

Best tell WH to add that to the whiteboard

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

From an outsider's perspective (who's team has no hope of any of the Kreuz/Cotch/Mort/Palm crew).

I can't see Kreuz coming straight in as a ruckman. He could pinch-hit as a follower (would make a very-good to elite 2nd ruck in time - but that's a hell of a waste of a #1). Don't think he'll ever be anything other than good as a true ruckman - he may develop those aspects of his game, but that wouldn't be playing to his strengths.

I can see Kreuzer playing as a link-up forward simply due to his stamina, and ability to read the play around the ground - but that relies on an opponent having to go with him. Similar to Buddy in his first (and most of 2nd) seasons, a smaller player who can match him speed/acceleration/agility/endurance wise will be able to negate him (typical 3rd/4th tall defender).

Where I see Kreuzer of most value however is as a much taller version of the (early 00 version) Chad Cornes CHB. Essentially playing as a pseudo 7th midfielder, using his reading of the play (and exceptional endurance) to run off his opponent. In terms of straight out endurance, he wouldn't be far off Riewoldt (sans a pre-season or two) - the benchmark for endurance running key position players. In time (once he bulks/develops his marking) he could become a hard-working CHF - but more than likely he will be a guy who gets plenty of the pill (avg ~20) for a big man, and can be competitive or better defensively.

I'm not bagging him (it does sound kinda negative on review, but I do rate him a top-5 prospect from pretty much any year) - but as others have said, exactly where will he fit in an AFL side (when his physical advantages aren't as prominant). He is allready on the elite side in terms of desperation/2nd/3rd efforts, so improvement will only come from experience/physical development.

 

[Silvagnis]

Best tell WH to add that to the whiteboard

I think Totino is the name on the whiteboard in that draft camp video.

Or maybe Greenwood.