Mega Thread List Changes, Drafting, Trading & Rookie Thread

[Phhht]

Surely you would expect a 22 year old AFL league footballer to have the skill to be able to deliver a preferred foot kick under no immediate pressure somewhere near a teammate 40m away?

This isn't even a matter of self-determination vs the the club's responsibility. This is someone who has grown up kicking a football. He kicks a football for a living. This is a basic skill that has been honed for nearly 20 years.

If McCarthy's kicking can get him this far in football it shouldn't need to be reconstructed by a club training program.

And yet we keep picking him. Maybe thats why we are where we are at?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

And yet we keep picking him. Maybe thats why we are where we are at?

McCarthy is one of those great mysteries to me like who built the Pyramids and why is the sky blue.

Collingwood drafted him, he played league football for them and as far as I can remember he didn't kick like Greg Norman putts on the last day of a major. So what has happened to him? It's a basic footballing function. Kick the ball at least in the vicinity of a team mate - better still hit him on the chest or in the hands. It's not a biomechanical issue as far as I can tell, so is it psychological? And if it is what happened? He didn't seem to be a duffer kick early in the year, it does seem to have deteriorated tho.

We can joke about gameplans and him confusing left and right but it is a basic function that is deserting him. And it is ruining his confidence.

 

[Schulzenfest]

It's only been in the last month or so too. His kicking was nothing to write home about in the early part of the year but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it has been lately.

 

[Northalives]

It's only been in the last month or so too. His kicking was nothing to write home about in the early part of the year but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it has been lately.

It seems to me gopower, that McCarthy is away with the pixies, if you know what I mean. The only thing missing is a cheese cloth t-shirt and some flowers in his hair.

 

[RangaInTeal]

It seems to me gopower, that McCarthy is away with the pixies, if you know what I mean. The only thing missing is a cheese cloth t-shirt and some flowers in his hair.

Doesn't play like a bloke from that era though!

 

[Northalives]

Doesn't play like a bloke from that era though!

Blokes from that era, who were off their face, didn't play footy. They watched switched on, committed blokes play footy.

There is a famous story of a couple of our lads in the 80's who were dropped for being wasted at training: both became champions.

 

[Phhht]

McCarthy is one of those great mysteries to me like who built the Pyramids and why is the sky blue.

Collingwood drafted him, he played league football for them and as far as I can remember he didn't kick like Greg Norman putts on the last day of a major. So what has happened to him? It's a basic footballing function. Kick the ball at least in the vicinity of a team mate - better still hit him on the chest or in the hands. It's not a biomechanical issue as far as I can tell, so is it psychological? And if it is what happened? He didn't seem to be a duffer kick early in the year, it does seem to have deteriorated tho.

We can joke about gameplans and him confusing left and right but it is a basic function that is deserting him. And it is ruining his confidence.

Absolutely. But are we in a position (as a team and coaching structure) to assist him out of this hole he is getting himself into?
Sure the onus has to come back onto his shoulders to learn how to execute fundamental skills but what is pushing him to improve right now? It appears that he will get picked whether he fluffs it or not. Like so many of our players, regardless of the performance they put on, they know that they will get picked the following week (altho Pfeiffer must be questioning whats going on right now) simply because there is noone to take their place.

It's a fundamental issue Primus has wrong. He needs to drop people if they continue to make the same old mistakes over and over again, especially skill or workrate related. Decision-making mistakes, sure game time/experience will certainly assist in developing the whole decision making process but skill execution and workrate is a 2 way street. The player needs to show that they are achieving standards in these areas and if they consistently arent, they need to be dropped. I dont care who they are.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

I agree with you in 99% of cases Phhht. But McCarthy really perplexes me. He is a good honest footballer. It's not workrate, it's not an ingrained skill defect. He can kick but it has fallen apart. I don't think dropping per se him would help. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be dropped but they really need to investigate the root causes of this issue. Whether he goes back to the SANFL and talks with a sports psychologist and works on his kicking. Have they given him some advice that was crossed the neural wires? He did get a lot of flack about automatically turning onto his right foot no matter the position he is in on the field. Has this jumbled some basic neurology that has to be sorted. Who knows?

It is often said 90% of football is played above the shoulders and sometimes we pay lip service to that idiom.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

John is a pretty smart guy aswell,

He isn't some hippie like some have suggested.

No idea what is troubling him, his kick was pretty decent at the start of his career here (despite not having a left), not sure what has happened.

 

[FishingRick04]

John is a pretty smart guy aswell,

He isn't some hippie like some have suggested.

No idea what is troubling him, his kick was pretty decent at the start of his career here (despite not having a left), not sure what has happened.

injury maybe? I agree, people would celebrating the recruiting coup!

 

[El_Scorcho]

I've done some reading on people getting the yips with stuff like this, no doubt people here have read it as well.

Basically the athlete, when kicking normally, goes basically into autopilot. It's all muscle memory. Their leg is trained from executing a skill thousands of times to just do it without too any thought needing to go into it.

But if a player is worried about executing the skill and is thinking too hard about it, instead of using the autopilot, muscle memory part of his brain, he's using a different part of his brain associated with doing something new that you have to think harder about. So he's effectively kicking like a beginner, and as such, the yips.

Could this be basically what McCarthy has?

At the start of the year we were all "wow if Johnny Mac could develop a left half as good as his right he'd be a gun". He's done the opposite and lost his right. It's 100% mental. We've all seen him kick and we know he can do it. I reckon he's worrying about turnovers and that worrying is causing even more turnovers.

 

[Powerade 08]

His kicking might have looked ok in the opening rounds but he took way too long to run a full circle and then put it on his good foot.

The coaches have obviously encouraged him to use his other foot and get the ball moving quicker but he just cannot kick at all with his left.

He is pretty much useless to us if we want to improve

 

[Northalives]

John is a pretty smart guy aswell,

He isn't some hippie like some have suggested.

No idea what is troubling him, his kick was pretty decent at the start of his career here (despite not having a left), not sure what has happened.

I wasn't suggesting that he was a hippie - I apologise if I gave that impression.

What I was suggesting was that he is playing like he is out of his tree not that he's some kind of druggie or anything. Once again, I'm sorry if what I wrote sounded like that.

 

[Forzaport]

Seems to me that McCarthy is thinking too much. Hopefully it's just a rough patch and his kicking will improve as we regain our better players and the overall confidence improves.

 

[Northalives]

Seems to me that McCarthy is thinking too much. Hopefully it's just a rough patch and his kicking will improve as we regain our better players and the overall confidence improves.

I really hope so too Forza and I reckon you maybe on the money too, when you say that he maybe "thinking too much". He seemed early on to take to much time to give the ball, looking for better options probably and getting busted but now, it all seems rush, rush, like he's been told to get it happening quicker and the poor lad is now caught in the twilight zone.

 

[Phhht]

I agree with you in 99% of cases Phhht. But McCarthy really perplexes me. He is a good honest footballer. It's not workrate, it's not an ingrained skill defect. He can kick but it has fallen apart. I don't think dropping per se him would help. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be dropped but they really need to investigate the root causes of this issue. Whether he goes back to the SANFL and talks with a sports psychologist and works on his kicking. Have they given him some advice that was crossed the neural wires? He did get a lot of flack about automatically turning onto his right foot no matter the position he is in on the field. Has this jumbled some basic neurology that has to be sorted. Who knows?

It is often said 90% of football is played above the shoulders and sometimes we pay lip service to that idiom.

Yeah Ford, I dont disagree. My concern is that here we have a newish player, well new to our club, and we cant seem to get the kid improving the way we want him to. Injury? maybe but he doesnt look to restricted to me. As you say, biomechanics of his kicking action are fundamentally sound, well right foot anyhow. He has a good work ethic so it doesnt appear to be laziness. So it comes to whats going on between the ears. This is where I have an issue with Primus. If his kicking is so bad and it isnt improving, he MUST drop him. We cant just keep playing him over and over. Its the exact same situation as Pearce. When Danyle was not working his ar$e off to stay involved in the game, provide defensive action on his opponent, he found himself in the 2s. Pearcey went back, worked his ar$e off and earnt a recall. And since that time, chalk and cheese (altho he still shouldnt be anywhere near the back half)
If J-Mac is struggling mentally with his game (kicking), Primus has to send him a message that it isnt good enough to just keep doing the same thing over and over, even if he is working hard at overcoming it. Go back to the SANFL, utilise the slower pace to 'uncross ya neural waves' or whatever it may be and get some confidence and ability back into your kicking. Then come back bigger and better than ever before.

Its a cultural thing driven by the man at the top of the tree. Primus has to drive it - if you consistently dont perform, you dont play in the big time. The worry is we dont want him to be just like Logan, Thomas, Chaplin, Cassisi etc where they dont appear to be held to account for the same poor disposal season after season...

ask yourself this, if he was playing for the crows and performing as he has, would he have been dropped (let alone if he was still at Collingwood)?

 

[Enviable Tradition]

I remember an interview earlier in the year where Malthouse talked about predictability of gameplan.

Essentially he was saying that if the players all know the game plan and it is predictable enough then they know exactly where they need to kick it (and where their team mates are) and it makes their decision making/disposal so much better.

I am not sure if it the lack of predictability of the game plan or the lack of players playing to the gameplan that is the issue but it certainly seems like his decision making/disposal is under a lot more pressure here than at Collingwood and over time it has effected his confidence.

 

[squinto]

I'll put this here since he's not a free agent. Greg Broughton has seemed to be out of favour with Ross Lyon this year, and we all know what a shitty man manager Ross Lyon is. WA boy, so if the relationship between him and the club breaks down his only option for a hometown trade would be West Coast and with Hurn, Waters, Butler, Schofield, Smith, Brennan etc. on their list they probably wouldn't be overly interested.

I wonder if we'd chase him if he wanted out? I'd like to add him to our side for the same reason I wanted to add Butler or Adcock. Frees up Pearce and Hartlett to play in the midfield where they're both at their most damaging, and gives us a backline player who can defend well AND rebound well which we still don't really have yet.

I would love the club to target someone like Greg Broughton. He can play as a midfielder and with the promise of more midfield time I'm sure we could attract him with such an offer. However, not sure if he would come cheap in terms of draft picks/players. I’m sure it was this type of sales pitch the Crows put to Jenkins to get him so why not try this approachI started a list of players I would look at with the promise of more game time. I got to the third player on my list and then realised they're all named as emergency's this round! hese players evi Greenwood, Tommy Walsh, Thomas Swift, Koby Stevens, Jordan Roughead, David Ellard, Sam Darley, Andrew Phillips....

 

[Schulzenfest]

I remember an interview earlier in the year where Malthouse talked about predictability of gameplan.

Essentially he was saying that if the players all know the game plan and it is predictable enough then they know exactly where they need to kick it (and where their team mates are) and it makes their decision making/disposal so much better.

I am not sure if it the lack of predictability of the game plan or the lack of players playing to the gameplan that is the issue but it certainly seems like his decision making/disposal is under a lot more pressure here than at Collingwood and over time it has effected his confidence.

We have a gameplan?

I think some people are being seriously harsh on McCarthy. He's had a poor month of footy, but there are guys on our list who have played (for the most part) 5 poor years of footy, and plenty of them don't have the potential that McCarthy does if he gets his shit together. They should all be out the door well before McCarthy is put on the chopping block.

 

[YoungsterPA]

How good does gumbleton look! Wouldn't mind if we went after him

 

[Zakk Wylde]

There's a reason he went at #2

Why the hell would Essendon let him go just as he starts getting on the park and performing ? ANd if we were to get him, we'd have to pay massive overs.

 

[YoungsterPA]

Well they have daniher coming next year so one tall may get pushed out

 

[philthy05]

the only thing holding gumby back is his body, which is still gotta be suspect.

dons would want to hold on to him after investing so much time. he would have to request a trade and if he did you could bet it would be hometown freo so give it up fellas.

no matter how good daniher is he will still be a few years away.

when was the last time a team had too many key forwards and had to give one away? doesnt happen.

 

[JHF1870]

So I'm aksing myself right now, why are Geelong still good. My predictions were that they would fall apart, after Ablett left, and now that they have half a dozen maybe more young 1st and 2nd year players, yet they are playing good football. I've finally conceded that youth is a bs excuse for where we are at, because Geelong are proving that theory totally wrong.

Everyone keeps talking about drafting, and drafting the right players. But I think its more about team ethos than anything, and Geelong and Sydney seem to be the front runners in that department. They play for each other, they play as a team, irrespective of who's playing. Take a player out; they still have the same game plan, game style and same result. I don't think we've drafted the wrong players, I think we have a great list to build on, but finally I've stopped being delusional about where the team is. I think we need to build a solid team ethos. Get the players playing an honest game, every player playing as a team. Thats what needs to happen now. But every year since 2007 this thread has been the same boring song, lets trade x for y, lets delist x. We need to build an attitude, and we need to build a team of players that just want to play football.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

So I'm aksing myself right now, why are Geelong still good. My predictions were that they would fall apart, after Ablett left, and now that they have half a dozen maybe more young 1st and 2nd year players, yet they are playing good football. I've finally conceded that youth is a bs excuse for where we are at, because Geelong are proving that theory totally wrong.

Everyone keeps talking about drafting, and drafting the right players. But I think its more about team ethos than anything, and Geelong and Sydney seem to be the front runners in that department. They play for each other, they play as a team, irrespective of who's playing. Take a player out; they still have the same game plan, game style and same result. I don't think we've drafted the wrong players, I think we have a great list to build on, but finally I've stopped being delusional about where the team is. I think we need to build a solid team ethos. Get the players playing an honest game, every player playing as a team. Thats what needs to happen now. But every year since 2007 this thread has been the same boring song, lets trade x for y, lets delist x. We need to build an attitude, and we need to build a team of players that just want to play football.

While I do think clubs can build a team ethos that defies the AFL cycle it is a bit early to put Geelong in that basket. They are the defending AFL Premiers and even tonight have 15 premiership players on the park. It is not that hard for them to look good. Media reports of their demise are a bit early.

Trading, drafting and delisting are all part of building a team ethos. You can't imagine one in isolation from the other.