Opinion List Management/Best Team going forward

[Davide_117]

Another thread made by me which may be a long read (needed to do this to feel better cos I know we have some potential):

At the end of the year we are going to get 3 first rounders, 1 second rounder and a third rounder as well as probably upgrading Magner to the senior list (or could keep him as nominated rookie) and maybe a psd selection....this means we need to delist 5-7 players come seasons end. Theres going to be tough descisions made come years end.

From the contracts thread, we have the following players who come out of contract at the end of the season (BOlded is who I think we should keep, those with (?) are players I think who are in trouble and italicised is who I think Neeld will keep):
Bail(?), Bartram, Bate(?), Bennell(?), Blease(?), Cook, Davis, Dunn (?), Garland, Green (?), Howe, Jamar (Free agency could make him leave tho), Jetta(?), Jones, Jurrah, McDOnald, McKenzie, Moloney (Free agency could make him leave tho), Petterd(?), RIvers, SPencer(?), Strauss, Evans(?) (rookie), Lawrence(?) (rookie) and Nicholson (rookie).
From this: SPencer, Evans (Rookie), Lawrence (Rookie), Bate, Dunn, Green, Bennell are gone while 1 of Bail, Blease, Jetta (might be saved as we need crumbing forwards who harass opposition defenders) and Petterd could also be cut.

WHen looking at Geelong's premiership team in 2009, they had a tall elite defenders in Scarlett and 2 gun key defenders in Harley and Taylor, 2 good medium/small dependers (Mackie, Milburn), 1 Quarterback (ENright), 1 line-breaker defender (Wojo). They had 4 elite inside/outside midfielders (Ablett, Selwood, Bartel, Chapman), 2 descent outside mids (Corey, Kelly), a super ruckman in Ottens, tagger in Ling, 2 exceptional mid sized forwards (Chapman, Johnson), an excellent full forward in Mooney and 2 fast small forwards applying pressure (Varcoe, Byrnes). They also had a grunt forward in Rooke and battlers at the time in Blake and Hawkins.

In our squad we have 3 key defenders in Frawley (elite), McDonald (potential- needs to fix kicking tho) and Rivers (honest). Our best medium defenders are Grimes (play as quarter back role-like Enright), Garland (Honest), though we have no competent small defender atm as Bartram has pathetic skills-should be cut IMO and the rest are all unproven/young (Strauss/Tapscott/Davis). We definitely need some speed coming out of the backline atm and potential line-breakers are Bennell, Nicholson (Rookie) and Blease?[looked really good last year in this role....only reason playing as a small pressure forward is cos we have no1 to do this role (Davey's lost his pace and can no longer chase like Garlett/ALwyn ect.)]. Geelong had pretty much 6 elite inside/outside mids with an elite ruckman and elite tagger. We currently have no elite mids...though have a potentially elite mid in Trengove/Viney/Sylvia (If he ever pulls his finger out). Jones and moloney are honest mids while we have GYsberts/Grimes (If he plays in this role) as another potentially good mids. Jamar is also a very good ruckman. I see us using our 3 first rounders on 3 mids (1 being Viney). Our forward line has an elite full forward in CLark, with 2 potentially elite kpf's in Watts and Cook. We have 2 potentially elite mid sized forwards in Jurrah and Howe though we have no players (Davey has lost his speed, Bail is in trouble of keeping a spot in the squad and Blease imo should be used as a linebreaking defender) who provide forward pressure, therefore we need to draft 2 of the fastest juniors out there to chase and harass opposition defenders (maybe a second/third rounder and rookie/psd pick). THis leaves us with a second/third rounder to pick a kpd. From this emulating the Geelong dynasty team (Listed in brackets), I think the best team to play week in/week out this year is:
FB: Garland (Mackie) Frawley (Scarlett) Tapscott (Milburn)
HB: Grimes (Enright) Rivers (Harley) McDonald (Taylor)
M: Jones (Corey) Trengove (Bartel) Gysberts (Kelly)
R: Jamar (Ottens) Moloney (Ablett) Sylvia (Selwood)
HF: Howe (Chapman) Watts (Hawkins) Davey (Varcoe)
FF: Bail (Byrnes) Clark (Mooney) Jurrah (Johnson)
I: Mckenzie (Ling), Martin (Blake), Blease (Wojo), Magner (Rooke).

Obviously nowhere near Geelong side but add 3 top 10s with VIney (hopefully we get lucky this time) and with some luck the development of Watts, Cook, Blease, Trengove, Tapscott, Gysberts, McDOnald we'll be up there eventually.

While in 2-3 years team should look like (Bolded are locks):
FB: Garland Frawley Tapscott
HB: Grimes McDOnald 3rd ROund KPD
M: Top 5 pick Jones Mid first rounder
R: Gawn Viney Trengove
HF: Howe Watts Pacy 2nd rounder
FF: PSD pick CLark Jurrah
I: McKenzie, Blease, Gysberts, Cook
With SYlvia/Rivers/Moloney/Jamar around the team as well depending on form/free agency at end of year

 

[Tulip]

Yet to read it, but you've always done well with these threads D117. Looking forward to getting into it.

 

[CTHORANGE]

Some interesting points here. We obviously get Viney next year, and perhaps with Taggert and Tynan that increases the midfield depth. We really have to find a couple of small running defenders and forwards. Those positions are up for grabs but Bennell and Blease just arent grabbing their chances at this stage, im looking forward to Strauss working his way back into a half back role as he can add a bit of kicking skill coming out of defence. Also Tapscott could be used across half back or forward.

 

[Dory_77]

I think you're right about the backs, we really need some pace coming off HB; Blease/Bennell would hopefully fill that gap if they weren't so inconsistent and could bring their A game to AFL level.
We also need a pacy outside mid. Sylvia has a bit of speed about him, but is unfit, out of form so far this season and woefully inconsistent even when he does have form. He also has great skills, but is just too lazy as I see it and really needs a boot up the arse or he can be used as trade bait.
If Jetta gets fit this season I think we should give him a couple of games as a crumbing forward. He has been played there a little during his career, but with a strong forward (Clark) crashing packs he could have a big chance to shine there. I don't think Bail is really a small forward type, more of a winger where he can use his pace in space.
I'll probably revisit this thread throughout the year, but I'd say you're right in who to definitely keep.

 

[Footy Smarts]

As a Geelong fan that watched our group develop, there's not much use in locking in players to emulate others in a premiership side. Many people say Bailey's mistake was trying to emulate a winning gameplan that is now outdated. I disagree. His mistake was trying to emulate a winning gameplan with a team that should be in development mode.

What a lot of people don't remember is that the Geelong champions didn't learn the game by playing the attacking, flick around handball game that we dominated with from 07-09. From 2001-2006 (which included finals in 04 and 05) we were really dour. We were one of the first teams to congest space around the ball and effectively play with 10+ midfielders. It was ugly to watch but it achieved a few vitally important things:

1. Developed contested ability in every player.
2. Developed great close in handball skills.
3. It led to very few blow-outs either way so the players were almost always playing with the heat on and it meant the wins were always hard-earned which helps the cuture of the place.

Our development gameplan was completely different to our eventual premiership gameplan. Bailey's biggest mistake was to try and emulate Geelong's gameplan without going through the years of education that we required to develop players with the ability to play that style.

The most important thing right now is to have a gameplan that can achieve that development. Once you've got hard bodies who can play contested footy with good skills and good game sense then you can look to play any gamestyle you want. Until then keep it simple and try to put the young players into situations where they'll learn again and again because until you've got a list with those skills you're not going to be a premiership contender no matter the gamestyle.

 

[Crusty Demon]

In our squad we have 3 key defenders in Frawley (elite), McDonald (potential- needs to fix kicking tho) and Rivers (honest). Our best medium defenders are Grimes (play as quarter back role-like Enright), Garland (Honest), though we have no competent small defender atm as Bartram has pathetic skills-should be cut IMO and the rest are all unproven/young (Strauss/Tapscott/Davis). ]

I think your being harsh on Bartram. He's having to play that small back role as we really have no one else. I think Clint is a better tagger in the middle of the ground than down back. And tbh, I think he's probably in or around the top 5 so far in our B&F this year. Strauss will come back and basically take his role in defence which will free up Clint a little.

But agree with most other things you have said. Bennell, Gawn, Blease, Tapscott, Cook and Gysberts development are crucial in the next year or two. All have something our side desperately need. Whether it be pace, height or strength, we need these 6 to develop quickly as all of them have either been cruelled by injury or have shown zero improvement since being drafted.

And as for our drafting at the end of the year, pace and skill will be on the agenda I'm sure. It looks as though we will pick up at least 3 or 4 quality picks, so this could make or break the club's chances of winning a flag with this list...

 

[00Stinger]

As a Geelong fan that watched our group develop, there's not much use in locking in players to emulate others in a premiership side. Many people say Bailey's mistake was trying to emulate a winning gameplan that is now outdated. I disagree. His mistake was trying to emulate a winning gameplan with a team that should be in development mode.

What a lot of people don't remember is that the Geelong champions didn't learn the game by playing the attacking, flick around handball game that we dominated with from 07-09. From 2001-2006 (which included finals in 04 and 05) we were really dour. We were one of the first teams to congest space around the ball and effectively play with 10+ midfielders. It was ugly to watch but it achieved a few vitally important things:

1. Developed contested ability in every player.
2. Developed great close in handball skills.
3. It led to very few blow-outs either way so the players were almost always playing with the heat on and it meant the wins were always hard-earned which helps the cuture of the place.

Our development gameplan was completely different to our eventual premiership gameplan. Bailey's biggest mistake was to try and emulate Geelong's gameplan without going through the years of education that we required to develop players with the ability to play that style.

The most important thing right now is to have a gameplan that can achieve that development. Once you've got hard bodies who can play contested footy with good skills and good game sense then you can look to play any gamestyle you want. Until then keep it simple and try to put the young players into situations where they'll learn again and again because until you've got a list with those skills you're not going to be a premiership contender no matter the gamestyle.

Fantastic Post!!!!

This is what I think Neeld is trying to do. Have a hard contested gameplan at the moment (building blocks). Once this is improved upon, start a more attractive attacking plan when players can all win their own ball ext.