List Reality

[Plugga]

Tradebait
Schammer
Peake
Mundy
Tarrant
Thornton
Gilmore
Murphy
Warnock (just because he wants to)
Duffield

Retire or delist
Webster
Josh Carr
Dunn
McManus
Matt Carr
Bell
Browne

1 more year
Mark Johnson
Farmer

The Future
Palmer
Hinkley
Mayne
Drum
Ibbotson
Brock

The Backbone
Hasleby
Solomon
Headland
Grover
Crowley
Hayden
McPharlin
Pavlich
Sandilands
Mi Johnson

Question marks? Trade, delist or keep?
Black
Campbell
Bradley
Mourish
Foster
Duffield
Head
Connelly
Pratt

 

[dominguez]

Tradebait
Schammer
Peake
Mundy
Tarrant
Thornton
Gilmore
Murphy
Warnock (just because he wants to)
Duffield

For someone to be trade bait they have to actually be worth chasing. Why would anyone trade a decent player and/or draft picks for the likes of Thornton, Gilmore, Peake or Duffield?

While Schammer and Murphy have their flaws I think they are worth more to us than a 3rd round pick.

Tarrant's on close to half a million a year so if we trade him we'd still be paying him around $250,000 a year. I don't know about you but if we have to pay a player I'd prefer to have him on our list than a 3rd round pick.

For what it's worth Hagdorn reckons that we are monitoring Wells, Gumbleton, Corey and Bateman, all West Aussies who are out of contract at seasons end. I'd be happy for all four to sign with their current teams because I don't think any of them offer what we need at the price it would cost us.

 

[StringyDog]

Tradebait
Schammer
Peake
Mundy
Tarrant
Thornton
Gilmore
Murphy
Warnock (just because he wants to)
Duffield

Retire or delist
Webster
Josh Carr
Dunn
McManus
Matt Carr
Bell
Browne

1 more year
Mark Johnson
Farmer

The Future
Palmer
Hinkley
Mayne
Drum
Ibbotson
Brock

The Backbone
Hasleby
Solomon
Headland
Grover
Crowley
Hayden
McPharlin
Pavlich
Sandilands
Mi Johnson

Question marks? Trade, delist or keep?
Black
Campbell
Bradley
Mourish
Foster
Duffield
Head
Connelly
Pratt

You can only trade if other clubs are interested and of the players you listed;

Schammer (poor decisions and disposal no currency)
Peake (done nothing since great year in 2006 limited currency)
Mundy (Trade possible)
Tarrant (Lost all currency)
Thornton (No currency - hack)
Gilmore (No comment do not know enough about)
Murphy (No currency - hack)
Warnock (just because he wants to) (trade possible - would be interst from some clubs that ned ruck)
Duffield (No currency - hack)

Only ones from this worth something would be Mundy and Warnock and possibly Peake.

One intersting one is Browne, he looked good at start of last year but have hardly sighted him since?

 

[freo1]

so next year we'll pretty much have a new team going by this? should be intersting

 

[Forzaport]

Please delist J.Carr

 

[SupersonicDocker]

While Schammer and Murphy have their flaws I think they are worth more to us than a 3rd round pick.

For what it's worth Hagdorn reckons that we are monitoring Wells, Gumbleton, Corey and Bateman, all West Aussies who are out of contract at seasons end. I'd be happy for all four to sign with their current teams because I don't think any of them offer what we need at the price it would cost us.

Mayne was a third round pick....

I would be skeptical about all of those. Wells goes missing way too much in games. Corey is good but may look alot better than he is because of his support cast. Bateman wont want to leave...

 

[Braun_2_B_Wild]

:d :d

 

[dominguez]

Mayne was a third round pick......

Fair call. It's very rare for a 3rd round pick to step straight into AFL footy in their first year though, and Mayne is older than your average draftee.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Fair call. It's very rare for a 3rd round pick to step straight into AFL footy in their first year though, and Mayne is older than your average draftee.

Not really. Davey anyone? Goldsack was a round 4 2006 and so was Thomas for the Kangas who played about 7 games. Westhoff and Robbie Gray from 2006. Then from the previous year you have Andrew Swallow and Clint Bartram

 

[Maximus76]

Retire or delist
Bell - still one of the dockers best players - when he goes u are not losing an old player u are losing one of your top 5 players


1 more year
Mark Johnson - he already got one more than he should have - just cause you try hard doesn mean your any good


The Backbone
Solomon - god help you if this guys is your backbone - ditto johnson

Edited

 

[Lynch takes a mark]

Tradebait
Schammer - Terrible disposal - too good to delist but very little trade value
Peake - Keep, needs confidence and support from inside mids
Mundy - Early 2nd rounder but I would keep, soft as butter but great finisher who needs support from inside mids
Tarrant - Keep
Thornton - No value
Gilmore - Depth player - keep
Murphy - Early 2nd round
Warnock (just because he wants to) - mid - late first round
Duffield - No value

Retire or delist
Webster
Josh Carr - Keep him
Dunn
McManus
Matt Carr
Bell
Browne

1 more year
Mark Johnson - Disagree
Farmer - Hold on to him a little longer

The Future
Palmer - Gun
Hinkley - Early days
Mayne - Gun
Drum - Solid/Almost gun
Ibbotson - Gun
Brock - Has a huge amount of work to do

The Backbone -
Hasleby
Solomon
Headland - Tradebait
Grover
Crowley - Tradebait
Hayden
McPharlin
Pavlich
Sandilands
Mi Johnson

Question marks? Trade, delist or keep?
Black - Gone
Campbell - Gone
Bradley - Gone
Mourish - Gone
Foster - Gone
Duffield - Gone
Head - Give him 2 years IMO
Connelly -
Pratt -

GET SOME QUALITY GENUINE MIDFIELDERS (Rich/Swift/Hartlett ect) - don't go for the tall outside mid or the ruckman.

You have awesome flankers and outside mids but seriously need support from Lewis/Mitchell/Kerr/Judd/Hodge/Sewell type mids.

The only one on your list is Haselby and to a lesser extent Bell & Palmer but both are far more damaging outside mids than clearance/grunt mids.

4 years and you could be GENUINE premiership contention with the right mix of drafting and development starting this year.

West Coast will have 3 or 4 picks in the top 20 again this year but already have a quality bunch of genuine midfielders (Priddis/Butler/Masten/Ebert/Hurn/Kerr/S. Selwood & McNamara) and WILL recruit another A- Grade mid in Daniel Rich from Subiaco with either pick 1 or 2 - that will make 3 A-Grade player makers (Kerr/Masten/Rich) and about 4 B-Grade genuine mids (Priddis/Butler/Ebert/Hurn)

They used the first round picks the last few years on inside players and will continue to do so - all of them will be AFL long term players opposed to what you have drafted/traded early and will ensure a rise back up the ladder to premiership contention within 4 years - bookmark it.

Look at Geelong, The Bulldogs and The Hawks - track the development of the inside midfielders and their correlation to the top 4

 

[ImperialPurple]

My take:

1. Webster - delist. Even when he's not injured, he's only average.

2. JCarr - gets one year on a much reduced salary. Lifts his game or he's gorn at the end of 2009.

3. Schammer - trade. Someone will take him and get whatever we can. Probably a pick in the 40s.

4. Hase - keep

5. Dunn - not prepared to make a call at this stage. Has a crack and is regularly in EF's best.

6. Solly - year by year proposition.

7. Peake - trade if anyone wants him. Otherwise delist.

8. McManus - bloody retire already.

9. MCarr - retire or delist.

10. Rhys - the future.

11. Des - year by year proposition. If he performs well he gets another contract. If he doesn't he gets cut. If he doesn't like the terms get his manager to shop him around and trade him.

12. O'Brien - deserves a go. 2 years on a small performance based contract. Part of the future.

13. Pratt - no idea.

14. Grover - keep.

15. Crowley - has lifted his game and is an effective tagger. Keep.

16. Mundy - keep as he's one of only a few with good skills.

17. MaJohnson - delist regardless of contract situtaion. Pay him out if we have to but he adds nothing.

18. McPharlin - keep.

19. Hinkley - keep. The future.

20. Tarrant - keep.

21. Black - delist if he can't get on the park this year - or if he continues to play undisciplined footy when he does. Otherwise year by year proposition. See Des.

22. Thornton - delist.

23. Mayne - keep. The future.

24. Campbell - trade or delist if no-one wants him.

25. Dodd - keep.

26. Bradley - can't believe I'm saying this but............................. keep for 2009 and see if he can do better than Murphy and Kiwi.

27. Gilmore - trade. Keep him if no one wants him.

28. Murphy - TRADE!

29. Pav - might hang onto him...

30. Drum - keep. The future.

31. Sandipants - keep.

32. Bell - up to him really. Play one more year if he wants, but will prob retire.

33. Jeffrey - one year.

34. Warnock - up to him really.

35. Ibbotson - keep. The future.

36. Browne - delist.

37. MiJohnson - keep.

38. Smith - dunno really. Prob needs to work harder at Swans to earn an upgrade, but ??

39. Mourish - keep on the rookie list.

40. Foster - keep. The future (but let him get his full match fitness up before playing him again.... the guy only started jogging in March).

41. Duffield - delist, or try and trade him - someone might bite.

42. Head. Who knows? I'd say keep just because he is the great unknown... but if he can't get a game at the moment, they must not rate him... so why tf did they draft him??

43. Hayden - keep.

44. Connelly - dunno, give him another year on the rookie list I s'pose.

So that is...

retire / delist
Webster
McManus
MCarr
MaJohnson
Thornton
Bell
Browne

Trade or delist if no-one wants them
Peake
Campbell
Murphy
Duffield

Offer for trade bait but keep if noone wants them on one year contracts
Schammer
Gilmore

Year by year proposition
JCarr
Solly
Des
Black
Bradley
Farmer

Keepers
Hase
Palmer
O'Brien
Grover
Crowley
Mundy
McPharlin
Hinkley
Tarrant
Mayne
Dodd
Pav
Drum
Sandilands
Ibbotson
MiJohnson
Foster
Hayden

Leave on the rookie list
Mourish
Connelly

Don't know...:
Dunn
Pratt
Warnock
Smith
Head

 

[Angus McFuttock]

Greetings fellow Dockers fans. I've been a long-time reader of the Freo board but haven't posted before. Looks like I picked a good day to open my account but anyway here goes.
As per usual a good analysis of the list by IP. I can't disagree with much there. Only Thornton might be saved if we have 6 other delistings/retirements, immediately giving us 5 draft picks and an extra rookie (for McManus' veterans spot).

If we traded any other players for picks it could see us taking 6-8 new players in the national draft and having maybe 5-6 of the 38 players not ready to play a significant number games at AFL level in 2009.

With 6+ picks in the ND we'd obviously want them as high as possible - although a priority pick at the end of the first round is on the cards after today's effort and would help.
With 2 new teams pillaging drafts from 2010 on we need to draft often and well in 2008-9 and replace about 12-15 players on the list (not counting rookies) over a couple of years.

I agree that Mark Johnson doesn't suit how the game is played now and is not part of our future. He should either retire or be paid out his contract (not much $ presumably).
We seem to have made the mistake of keeping (and topping up with) a lot of depth players (read Webster, Macca, Ma Johnson, Head, Duffield) in the 38 rather than having a few younger developing players at the end of the list.

 

[Scham]

Great summation of our list IP. The only thing I would add is that if Farmer plays next year it must be his last - absolutely!

We desperately need key defenders and midfielders in this years trade/draft period.

 

[Latro]

If as we have to rebuild why keep Farmer for one more year? I am not knocking him he is one of my favourite players but he has caused a lot of problems since last year and is more than likely not going to be around when we are next playing finals. Wouldnt we be better off not giving him another contract and finding a replacement.

 

[The Night Shift]

Good summary IP..

 

[Moo]

You can not turn over a dozen players on your list.

While I would agree we may shop a number of names at the trade table - the chances are if we go in with a pre-meditated ...Schammer must go - we are likely to get bum poked in the process.

Facing the fact that Webster, M Carr, P Bell & SMac - are likely gone that is 4 players.

Jury is out but lets play and answer the questions on Dunn (look we are screwed give the kid an uninterrupted run), Campbell, Murphy, Duffield, Browne (if he cant get out there this year - I'd say bye), Head (give him a chance now)

If we turn over 6 to 8 that is plenty IMHO ...

Agreeing we keep Pavlich, Sandi, Hase (come back strong), Solly - give him another year, Palmer, Ibbo, Hinks, Drum, Hayden, Grover, Crowls, Mundy, McPharlin, Mayne, Dodd, MJ (orig), Smith, Foster.

Josh Carr - bugger this talk of a 1 year deal ...he is having a shyte season but he is still worthy of a 2 year deal.

Farmer - year by year ...certainly I'd keep him.

Gilmore - Under contract and you would certainly keep with the current ruck situation ?

Warnock - Certainly keep or get some trade value.

Schammer is contracted to 2009 and is in the window of 23 and approaching 100 games ...I'd be keeping him.

Peake - Under contract to 2009 we need his pace but he has to fight his way back in.

Headland - Keep....he is decent not the superstar we had hoped for but he is still in our best 18.

Taz - what do you do? Have to obviously keep him (his trade value would be nothing) ...if we are out of the running ...go East Perth.

Kepler/Mark Johnson - contracted so keep em on.

Black ...better find that fit in harvey's game plan or you may serve out that contract at Souths.

Scott Thornton - I don't agree with all of this Thornton bashing. He would be on a cheap contract, he is versatile and certainly I'd keep him on the list though he would want to pull his skeletor finger out for the rest of the season.

It is a hard road we face but knocking of a dozen of our team when there are not a dozen stronger candidates is madness.

If we can draft 3 or 4 good kids, pick up 1 or 2 via trade - that will do me. We need to be tough at the trade table though and face the fact that the building part may be entirely via the draft unless midrange teams are willing to trade.

 

[ImperialPurple]

I reckon we need to be ruthless. Absolutely ruthless, so that every bloke who fronts up to Freo Oval after all the drafts and done and dusted in Dec this year, knows that they have to perform to be part of this footy club.

No more wagging the dog.
No more mental marshmallow performances.
No more half-hearted attacks on the ball.
No more jogging after your opponent cos you can't be arsed chasing.
No more peeling off for the handball when you could block or shepherd for the guy with the ball.
No more tackles that are nothing more than throwing your arms out to make it look like you're trying.

If we lose, it's cos we got beaten by the better team on the day - not because we turned soft cos we thought we had the game won...

If that means turning over 10 players at the end of the season, so be it. You can't tell me that a 18-19 year old that we take a punt on would have worse skills Brett Peake, or be more injury prone than Andrew Browne. Hell he might be as bad - but he couldn't be worse. At least we tried something.

I don't have a problem with one or two "recycled" players from other clubs - look how Solly and Rodan and Mattner and Schneider (for example) have turned out for their new clubs.

But don't bring in anyone over 25, and only use picks we have got from other clubs for players we might have traded out. But no first round picks!!!!

I just think that we need to load up in this draft, as the next couple of drafts will have slim pickings for existing clubs. And if that means 10 players - then good.

 

[Lach72]

You can not turn over a dozen players on your list.

While I would agree we may shop a number of names at the trade table - the chances are if we go in with a pre-meditated ...Schammer must go - we are likely to get bum poked in the process.

Facing the fact that Webster, M Carr, P Bell & SMac - are likely gone that is 4 players.

Jury is out but lets play and answer the questions on Dunn (look we are screwed give the kid an uninterrupted run), Campbell, Murphy, Duffield, Browne (if he cant get out there this year - I'd say bye), Head (give him a chance now)

If we turn over 6 to 8 that is plenty IMHO ...

Agreeing we keep Pavlich, Sandi, Hase (come back strong), Solly - give him another year, Palmer, Ibbo, Hinks, Drum, Hayden, Grover, Crowls, Mundy, McPharlin, Mayne, Dodd, MJ (orig), Smith, Foster.

Josh Carr - bugger this talk of a 1 year deal ...he is having a shyte season but he is still worthy of a 2 year deal.

Farmer - year by year ...certainly I'd keep him. Agree

Gilmore - Under contract and you would certainly keep with the current ruck situation ?

Warnock - Certainly keep or get some trade value. If he wants to go get what we can for him
Schammer is contracted to 2009 and is in the window of 23 and approaching 100 games ...I'd be keeping him. Trade for a box of chocolates

Peake - Under contract to 2009 we need his pace but he has to fight his way back in. Trade for half a box

Headland - Keep....he is decent not the superstar we had hoped for but he is still in our best 18. Agree

Taz - what do you do? Have to obviously keep him (his trade value would be nothing) ...if we are out of the running ...go East Perth. Keep better, than Murphy, Campbell and Kepler.
Kepler/Mark Johnson - contracted so keep em on. Mark Johnson - Solomon can do anything he can do better Pay him out

Black ...better find that fit in harvey's game plan or you may serve out that contract at Souths. Keep

Scott Thornton - I don't agree with all of this Thornton bashing. He would be on a cheap contract, he is versatile and certainly I'd keep him on the list though he would want to pull his skeletor finger out for the rest of the season. Delist - just god awful with shit disposal

 

[Belnakor]

I agree its unrealistic to trade Peake and Schammer. We wouldn't get what they are worth, and they would suddenly be a "superstar" if they got traded to a Vic club.

Webster, M Carr, Bell, Shauny Mac, Murphy and Browne would be certainities to be delisted or retire, and Black would be pretty close to gone too if he doesn't get his form back up. Thats 6 or 7 replacements in one season which is alot, our rookie list is already full with prospects that i doubt will come good within the next year. We'd almost have to trade for new players to fill the list unless we took picks in like the 6th round.

 

[poshman]

yet looking at the list we would need to turn over at least 7-10 to have any major change on the list.

Bell? may stay.
Macca - gorn
M.Carr - gorn
Browne - gorn
Campbell - gorn
Dunn - (unless gets elevated now and plays rest of year) gorn
Mark Johnson - will stay i think but possible to stay.
Murphy - trade for a pick?
Warnock may leave but we wouldn't choose that option.

That is nine all very possible and you could say five to six certainties without getting to tough.

 

[Latro]

Doesnt Campbell have another year on his contract. So I would expect him to stil be here next year.

I would put one of Mundy, Michael Johnson or Drum up for trade bait.

 

[Moo]

Doesnt Campbell have another year on his contract. So I would expect him to stil be here next year.

I would put one of Mundy, Michael Johnson or Drum up for trade bait.

I wouldn't ...

2x 23 year/ 1 x 21 year defenders - all agile, all over 191 cm and none has played 100 games yet. All are perfect for modern AFL football.

These are precisely the guys who need to stay - lets not repeat the sins of the past and trade these guys for late picks.

I would expect all 3 to be in our starting 18 by next season.

 

[Latro]

I would only trade them for at least early second round pick. We need more midfielders and we have to give up something to get the picks we need. Do we really need all 3 in the team especially with most teams playing midfielders off the half back line.

 

[dockers_bengals]

Good post I.P. Schammer I would keep at this stage.
8-9 midfielders is a lot to replace as well as two forwards and if Warnock goes a ruckman.
It will be interesting if any of those mentioned can change the outlook most people have for them by the end of the year