Long-term future of the AFL.

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May 24, 2022
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It would be more likely than a league would. I am sure $1 million plus per club (roughly a third of which is likely to be sucked up by travel and accommodation) could be used to greater benefit for football than a second-tier league. The AFL won't throw $12 million down to fund 12 second-tier teams.

The only issue is finding a sugar daddy to sponsor it and cover costs. As we saw with the Foxtel Cup, second-tier football isn't going to fill the grandstands and be a money-making venture. They would need a sponsor that understands this.

An AFL reserves competition is much more likely with the result being a plundering of the stocks of second-tier football, rendering the concept of a second division dead in the water.

One of the reasons why the Foxtel Cup failed is because the clubs that participated in that comp still played in their respective state leagues.

A national second division (NSD) should be a league where the clubs play in permanently, so their spots in the state leagues would be replaced or have their reserves team play in.

NSD allows the strongest state league clubs to play in a challenging comp that would enable the club to reach its full potential.

This is the league where you would place your West Perths, Norwoods, Williamstown, etc. And it would also be a great league to test AFL expansion teams such as the Tassie Devils or Canberra Griffins for a few years before entry into the Premiership league.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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The AFL don't want that. The AFL wants a reserves comp that is wholly under its control.

The state leagues are there to act as a feeder to the higher ranks, not to deflect publicity or profile. The demise of the VFA is testament to that attitude. The AFL want you to focus on Carlton, Port Adelaide and West Coast, not Sandringham, Sturt or East Fremantle.

Soccer has been trying to get a second division more on than off since the 1980s in the NSL days. They had Northern and Southern conferences for two years but the standard was atrocious and over a dozen clubs were culled after the second season. Since the 1990s, it has failed to eventuate despite a number of attempts - mainly due to costs. Australian Football would have similar issues.

WAFL and SANFL matches struggle to get 2500 to many of its matches and, even then, the figures in the newspapers for WAFL matches are sometimes inflated to double what was really there. Peel versus Northern Bullants would be lucky to get a four-figure crowd.
 
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Aug 14, 2011
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The AFL don't want that. The AFL wants a reserves comp that is wholly under its control.

The state leagues are there to act as a feeder to the higher ranks, not to deflect publicity or profile. The demise of the VFA is testament to that attitude. The AFL want you to focus on Carlton, Port Adelaide and West Coast, not Sandringham, Sturt or East Fremantle.

Soccer has been trying to get a second division more on than off since the 1980s in the NSL days. They had Northern and Southern conferences for two years but the standard was atrocious and over a dozen clubs were culled after the second season. Since the 1990s, it has failed to eventuate despite a number of attempts - mainly due to costs. Australian Football would have similar issues.

WAFL and SANFL matches struggle to get 2500 to many of its matches and, even then, the figures in the newspapers for WAFL matches are sometimes inflated to double what was really there. Peel versus Northern Bullants would be lucky to get a four-figure crowd.

The AFL have the funding of the AFLW to deal with.
Not to mention the role of the AFL as custodian of the game nationally, NOT just the AFL competition.
 

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RedV3x

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One of the reasons why the Foxtel Cup failed is because the clubs that participated in that comp still played in their respective state leagues.

The major reason why the Foxtel Cup was compromised is that it was played in parallel with AFL season
and that the strongest teams didn't necessarily play.
It makes sense to play the state premiers after the AFL grand final.
 
Aug 14, 2011
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The AFL playing politics does not sit comfortably with me:

'The AFL remains hopeful it will stage a game in Alice Springs in Round 16 amid a dispute over allowing local football to be played at Traeger Park on Sundays.
The league has informed the Alice Springs Town Council it would consider moving the Melbourne versus GWS Giants game from Traeger Park over a council decision to ban community teams from playing there on Sundays in the Central Australia Football League.'

In a trouble spot that the Alice is currently in wades the AFL, Commission & Administration.:rolleyes:

'The AFL is concerned the council permits teams from Alice Springs to play on Saturdays at Traeger Park, but does not permit teams from regional communities to play there on Sundays as part of a separate communities competition.

But the AFL remains hopeful the council will be satisfied by some CAFL fixture decisions which addresses some of the council’s concerns by spreading out the CAFL games across seven rounds in 12 weeks at multiple venues.'

The AFL running State/Territory footy thinks it can strong arm local decisions of elected Government.:(
 
The AFL playing politics does not sit comfortably with me:

'The AFL remains hopeful it will stage a game in Alice Springs in Round 16 amid a dispute over allowing local football to be played at Traeger Park on Sundays.
The league has informed the Alice Springs Town Council it would consider moving the Melbourne versus GWS Giants game from Traeger Park over a council decision to ban community teams from playing there on Sundays in the Central Australia Football League.'

In a trouble spot that the Alice is currently in wades the AFL, Commission & Administration.:rolleyes:

'The AFL is concerned the council permits teams from Alice Springs to play on Saturdays at Traeger Park, but does not permit teams from regional communities to play there on Sundays as part of a separate communities competition.

But the AFL remains hopeful the council will be satisfied by some CAFL fixture decisions which addresses some of the council’s concerns by spreading out the CAFL games across seven rounds in 12 weeks at multiple venues.'

The AFL running State/Territory footy thinks it can strong arm local decisions of elected Government.:(

It likely has the political capital and the wealth to be able to successfully strong-arm them as well.

That said, since the inception of sport, it has played and been a tool for politics, and likely its a game the AFL/VFL has played long before you were born. The only thing that saves it from being terrible is that we thankfully don't have a culture of teams moving to new cities, unlike the US.
 
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Mar 17, 2009
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It likely has the political capital and the wealth to be able to successfully strong-arm them as well.

That said, since the inception of sport, it has played and been a tool for politics, and likely its a game the AFL/VFL has played long before you were born. The only thing that saves it from being terrible is that we thankfully don't have a culture of teams moving to new cities, unlike the US.

Yes the culture of rich owners shifting teams is what we don't want.

That hasn't stopped some here on BF advocating moving teams out of Melbourne. ie North Melbourne to 'anywhere'.

Self-interest can be quite amazing sometimes. ;)
 

RedV3x

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The AFL running State/Territory footy thinks it can strong arm local decisions of elected Government.

but that's at odds with

But the AFL remains hopeful the council will be satisfied by some CAFL fixture decisions which addresses some of the council’s concerns by spreading out the CAFL games across seven rounds in 12 weeks at multiple venues.'

Who do you propose to look after the interests of Australian Football ?
 
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It likely has the political capital and the wealth to be able to successfully strong-arm them as well.

That said, since the inception of sport, it has played and been a tool for politics, and likely its a game the AFL/VFL has played long before you were born. The only thing that saves it from being terrible is that we thankfully don't have a culture of teams moving to new cities, unlike the US.

If we assume the council is correct - i.e that hosting teams from out of town comes with a signficant increase in crime - then it's a weird hill to die on for the AFL.
 

The Educator

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If we assume the council is correct - i.e that hosting teams from out of town comes with a signficant increase in crime - then it's a weird hill to die on for the AFL.


...or do you think it might be the AFL standing up for remotish indigenous communities?
 
Jul 17, 2012
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I think 18 teams should be the maximum for fans to enjoy the competition. My concern with adding team 19 and 20 is that you could permanently have 5-6 very weak teams each season. Can the talent spread that far? I’m torn though, because I would not like to see any of the Victorian clubs merge or fold - you don’t want a North Sydney Bears situation happening in modern day AFL.

Obviously, the AFL want to grow the game and Tasmania do deserve their own team. I would like to see Canberra as team 20, but there just seems to be no major push and/or bids by governments and key stakeholders in that community. It just does not look like it at this stage. Tasmania to their credit kept pressing hard on the issue in recent years.

Adding team 21 and team 22 would just make the competition too big.

I would persist with the Gold Coast. They have had zero success and have yet to play a final. I would judge the club once they have played a few final series. They are a bit lucky that the Titans haven’t enjoyed much success on field either.
 

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RedV3x

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I think 18 teams should be the maximum for fans to enjoy the competition. My concern with adding team 19 and 20 is that you could permanently have 5-6 very weak teams each season.

You always have weak teams so it's better to have them in a large league where they are a smaller proportion.

Can the talent spread that far?

If it doesn't then the watchability of AFL will rise.

I’m torn though, because I would not like to see any of the Victorian clubs merge or fold

Don't have to worry about that. The smallest Vic clubs are still powerful entities.
you don’t want a North Sydney Bears situation happening in modern day AFL.

Don't have to worry about that. The North Sydney bears were good for the North Shore Bears.
I would like to see Canberra as team 20, but there just seems to be no major push and/or bids by governments and key stakeholders in that community.

Pay attention. there have been many bids emanating from Canberra.

It just does not look like it at this stage.

Huh ? Tasmania on track to get there own team means the AFL are looking at 20th team.
Tasmania to their credit kept pressing hard on the issue in recent years.

Yes and have succeeded.
Adding team 21 and team 22 would just make the competition too big.

Hold on, we're just added the 19th team.
I would persist with the Gold Coast.

Why wouldn't the AFL.

They are a bit lucky that the Titans haven’t enjoyed much success on field either.You could say that the NRL are lucky that soccer isn't as big professionally as it is participation-wise in NSW.

You could say that NRL is lucky that soccer isn't as big professionally as it is participation=wise in NSW.
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Pay attention. there have been many bids emanating from Canberra.

Huh ? Tasmania on track to get there own team means the AFL are looking at 20th team.
How long ago were those Canberra bids? Not in the recent years. I’m talking about recent memory. There is not much noise from Canberra about pushing for their own AFL license, unlike the persistence from the Tasmanian government and key footy stakeholders.

There is no guarantee about a 20th team. Nothing is ever guaranteed and a 20th team is just pure speculation at this current stage. I think they will have a good look at Tasmania with their financial viability and on field success before thinking about adding a 20th team.

I could see it happening, but probably in the 2030s.
 
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MelbourneGWS

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How long ago were those Canberra bids? Not in the recent years. I’m talking about recent memory. There is not much noise from Canberra about pushing for their own AFL license, unlike the persistence from the Tasmanian government and key footy stakeholders.

There is no guarantee about a 20th team. Nothing is ever guaranteed and a 20th team is just pure speculation at this current stage. I think they will have a good look at Tasmania with their financial viability and on field success before thinking about adding a 20th team.

I could see it happening, but probably in the 2030s.
Yes, there’s been no active lobbying from our government for Team 20 in Canberra. This is in strong contrast to Tasmania and NT. Already Canberra has the Raiders, Brumbies, Capitals, and soon an Aleague soccer team. I think Barr and the AFL seems content with GWS playing 3 games long term in Canberra (a 4th game is mooted in the new contract if parties agree).
 
Jul 17, 2012
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Yes, there’s been no active lobbying from our government for Team 20 in Canberra. This is in strong contrast to Tasmania and NT. Already Canberra has the Raiders, Brumbies, Capitals, and soon an Aleague soccer team. I think Barr and the AFL seems content with GWS playing 3 games long term in Canberra (a 4th game is mooted in the new contract if parties agree).
Spot on. They are happy with GWS playing their three games a year. It’s a shame, I would love to see Canberra get the 20th team, but they would likely need a new stadium if Tasmania was forced to satisfy such a requirement and I just can’t see the political will for the government to build a new AFL stadium in Canberra.

It could very well just stay at 19 teams for several years and fans will get used to having the odd bye round for their team.
 
Mar 24, 2017
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Spot on. They are happy with GWS playing their three games a year. It’s a shame, I would love to see Canberra get the 20th team, but they would likely need a new stadium if Tasmania was forced to satisfy such a requirement and I just can’t see the political will for the government to build a new AFL stadium in Canberra.

It could very well just stay at 19 teams for several years and fans will get used to having the odd bye round for their team.
We already have a bye round. Media commentators will bring it up to complain in a slow news week, but in practice not one else will find it a problem. You can speak out then yes and eliminate five day breaks after ANZAC games, prior to Thursday nights, etc. 19 teams is very workable until there is a bid worthy of a 20th licence.
 

RedV3x

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There is not much noise from Canberra about pushing for their own AFL license,

How many times do you have to beat your head against the wall ?
The good Canberra bids were rejected by the AFL THEN the raiders came along.
The AFL hasn't really said "try again", even now with the 20th team in focus.
 

Bjo187

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I doubt the ACT government or AFL will mention Canberra for a long time, even if they have planning going on in the background.

If they do mention the possibility, the giants deal won't get any value for money.

Canberran's would drop off on going to giants games, just like Tasmanian's did with North and hawks games, once they thought a licence was being sought for their very own team.

Best hope is if the clueless media start to get their head around Canberra having the best business case for team 20.
 

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