MATTHEWS v CAREY V ABLETT

[volcboy]

I was there too. Hocking got Lethal a beauty, and rightly so...though in typical Lethal style, he took it in his stride and got on with business.

He did, after being ushered off the ground protected by a ring of trainers from a psychotic Mark Jackson (he got suspended for 8 weeks after that match), who had seen the incident and run half the length of the ground to have a go as well.

Poor ol' Brunsy though, if you listen closely you can still hear him squealing.

It amuses me to hear Hawthorn supporters still saying this. The incident was caught on video, and the VFL had just started cracking down on off-the-ball incidents. Matthews was just doing what he had done numerous times before, but the changing times caught up with him, as did the hysterical media with their coverage of the incident due to the seriousness of the injury to Bruns.

Bruns squealing right after the incident? It's hard to squeal when your jaw is wired shut.

 

[Kings Army]

If you measure by the only overall accepted stat (popular opinion) of who was the best, then who comes out the winner?
More than 45% of people believe that Ablett was the best. We have no more impartial stat than that... so that can be the only 'most accurate' result.
End of thread.[/quote]

I would have thought our top sport writers would be the "most accuarte"

The writers have listed the greatest Aussie sports stars from the last 30 years.

Carey at 4
Matthews at 10
Ablett at 17

Carey is ranked the highest out of any football code.

"If you were building a side - Carey would be the first picked" for sheer brillance - Gary Ablett comes in at 17.

End of thread

 

[Big Nasty]

Kings Army Your refering to the alpha magazine and that is opinions of a 100 people. The 150 people that voted on here would have more merit because they are voting on a footy poll and not just a poll of a variety of different sports

 

[cat in sydney]

I would have thought our top sport writers would be the "most accuarte"

The writers have listed the greatest Aussie sports stars from the last 30 years.

Carey at 4
Matthews at 10
Ablett at 17

Carey is ranked the highest out of any football code.

"If you were building a side - Carey would be the first picked" for sheer brillance - Gary Ablett comes in at 17.

End of thread

Sports writers are as open to biased, subjective opinions as anyone else on this thread. Poor argument.

Another example - greatest movie ever?? You ask a panel of 'film reviewers' (equivalent of your 'sports writers') to rate the greatest of all time, they'll probably come out with a arthouse film from southern France that only 28 people in the world have ever seen, but think it is 'sublime... blah, blah, blah..." IT IS SUBJECTIVE based on narrow-minded, personal opinions!!

The only way to have the most objective overall ranking is to open the question up to EVERYONE! So, it takes in ALL biases, ALL subjective opinions, ALL measurements areas... and delivers the most accurate ranking possible.

 

[Big Nasty]

Sports writers are as open to biased, subjective opinions as anyone else on this thread. Poor argument.

Another example - greatest movie ever?? You ask a panel of 'film reviewers' (equivalent of your 'sports writers') to rate the greatest of all time, they'll probably come out with a arthouse film from southern France that only 28 people in the world have ever seen, but think it is 'sublime... blah, blah, blah..." IT IS SUBJECTIVE based on narrow-minded, personal opinions!!

The only way to have the most objective overall ranking is to open the question up to EVERYONE! So, it takes in ALL biases, ALL subjective opinions, ALL measurements areas... and delivers the most accurate ranking possible.

Thats exactly right, and Ablett wouldnt get looked at with some people because of past events.

 

[matty_hawk]

we'll have another ballot ono election day. that way everyone over 18 can have a say on who the best player is, and not everyone will vote for ablett. all this because 3 players had great carrers and everyone wants to compare them. although they played completly different roles, in COMPLETLY different teams. GrEaT tHrEaD

 

[Kings Army]

Thats exactly right, and Ablett wouldnt get looked at with some people because of past events.

And Carey is viewed as such a lovelable person!

 

[Kings Army]

Sports writers are as open to biased, subjective opinions as anyone else on this thread. Poor argument.

Another example - greatest movie ever?? You ask a panel of 'film reviewers' (equivalent of your 'sports writers') to rate the greatest of all time, they'll probably come out with a arthouse film from southern France that only 28 people in the world have ever seen, but think it is 'sublime... blah, blah, blah..." IT IS SUBJECTIVE based on narrow-minded, personal opinions!!

The only way to have the most objective overall ranking is to open the question up to EVERYONE! So, it takes in ALL biases, ALL subjective opinions, ALL measurements areas... and delivers the most accurate ranking possible.

Sports writers would have more of an idea about professional sports people than the posters on big footy.

A panel of sport writers opinion has to carry more weight that a one eye cats fan. This poll is biased due to more cat supporters voting than Hawks and Roos supporters.

If you were building a side from scratch would you really take Ablett 1st?

 

[Bloods]

Sports writers would have more of an idea about professional sports people than the posters on big footy.

A panel of sport writers opinion has to carry more weight that a one eye cats fan. This poll is biased due to more cat supporters voting than Hawks and Roos supporters.

If you were building a side from scratch would you really take Ablett 1st?

That's complete and utter rubbish - why do they have more of an idea? Most of the people who write on football, see about two games a weekend. The majority of supporters see more than that. Journalists have either got their job by being a good footballer or having a uni degree - it doesn't give their opinions any more credibility.

 

[Kings Army]

That's complete and utter rubbish - why do they have more of an idea? Most of the people who write on football, see about two games a weekend. The majority of supporters see more than that. Journalists have either got their job by being a good footballer or having a uni degree - it doesn't give their opinions any more credibility.

A sports Jurno spend their life watching sport. They have access to speak with experts such as coaches and other players.

A cat fan would have seen Ablett alot and Carey very little. A sports jurno would see both an equal amount of times and have a least bias view.

Sports Jurno's have to have more of an idea than the average supporter. Otherwise everyone on Big footy could write articles for the press or have an opinion people would want to read about.

Once again - if you were building a team from scratch would you pick Ablett 1st?

 

[afl genius]

A sports Jurno spend their life watching sport. They have access to speak with experts such as coaches and other players.

A cat fan would have seen Ablett alot and Carey very little. A sports jurno would see both an equal amount of times and have a least bias view.

Sports Jurno's have to have more of an idea than the average supporter. Otherwise everyone on Big footy could write articles for the press or have an opinion people would want to read about.

Once again - if you were building a team from scratch would you pick Ablett 1st?

A cat fan is a footy fan and would have seen Carey a little less but still a fair share of his games

If i was building a team from scratch and could pick any player ever i would first pick Ablett then Carey and then a few more players(Polly Farmer,Kevin Bartlett and players like this then pick Matthews

 

[Cursed Cat]

impossible for a Geelong fan to remain unbiased on this, and I'm sure it's the same for Carey and Roos fans or Matthews and Hawks fans - I just have so many amazing memories of Ablett in full flight - from 84-88 he was an absolute freak, not much footage of that part of his career seems to circulate though unfortuantely ... he actually did his knee pre-season in (i think) '88 and was back by round 5 for a double-header at the MCG (Melbourne played someone first, then it was Geelong vs. North at twilight)
- from 1989 onwards he really forged his rep as the legend we've all come to know, but pre '89 his profile hadn't really exploded like it did in 89 ... I don't think people could quite believe what they were seeing, maybe it was assumed he'd be a flash in the pan - but after winning the Cats B+F in his first full senior season (he missed around 6 games too !) he backed up with 82 goals from 20 games in '85, 65 goals from 15 games in '86, 53 goals from 17 games in '87 and 82 goals from 21 games in '88 - in none of these years was he positioned at full-forward, nor did he have the forward line to himself ...

 

[smelly cat]

A sports Jurno spend their life watching sport. They have access to speak with experts such as coaches and other players.

A cat fan would have seen Ablett alot and Carey very little. A sports jurno would see both an equal amount of times and have a least bias view.

Sports Jurno's have to have more of an idea than the average supporter. Otherwise everyone on Big footy could write articles for the press or have an opinion people would want to read about.

Once again - if you were building a team from scratch would you pick Ablett 1st?

It has been widely regarded as politically incorrect to bestow any honour on Ablett in recent times, so there is no way any popular magazine would ever place him as the number one. But time will change that.

It's pretty funny that everyone on this site whines about the opinions of the so called 'experts' such as Walls, Caro, Brereton etc and go on about how they know nothing, but we are more than happy to cite the called expert sports journos when their opinions suit our own.

If you ask me, I'd rather listen to the fans than a bunch of sport journos. And Ablett getting 45% of the fans vote confirms in my mind that he was the greatest.

 

[Bloods]

It's pretty funny that everyone on this site whines about the opinions of the so called 'experts' such as Walls, Caro, Brereton etc and go on about how they know nothing, but we are more than happy to cite the called expert sports journos when their opinions suit our own.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[OneEyedHawk]

He did, after being ushered off the ground protected by a ring of trainers from a psychotic Mark Jackson (he got suspended for 8 weeks after that match), who had seen the incident and run half the length of the ground to have a go as well..

Lethal was in Disneyland, could barely keep his feet, and was being helped off the ground by the trainers.I think we both know it would've been Jacko that needed the protection had Lethal not been incapacitated.

It amuses me to hear Hawthorn supporters still saying this. The incident was caught on video, and the VFL had just started cracking down on off-the-ball incidents. Matthews was just doing what he had done numerous times before, but the changing times caught up with him, as did the hysterical media with their coverage of the incident due to the seriousness of the injury to Bruns..

Rightly or wrongly, it was the unspoken code of the time. I think what infuriated so many about Bruns' incessant squealing was that he was a dirty little prick himself, and had taken advantage of that system many times previous.

 

[mark73]

If you ask me, I'd rather listen to the fans than a bunch of sport journos. And Ablett getting 45% of the fans vote confirms in my mind that he was the greatest.

Well thats great logic.Your opinion is based on the fact that you are a Geelong supporter and nothing more.Why people have to bullsh*t is beyond me.

 

[Big Nasty]

when adding up the poll votes from other clubs and not the teams supporting the individuals, Gary Ablett has more votes from other clubs.

 

[STC]

Well thats great logic.Your opinion is based on the fact that you are a Geelong supporter and nothing more.Why people have to bullsh*t is beyond me.

So insult him from having bias, is he not entitled to having an opinion if it is biased? I don't think Gary Ablett Jnr (or anyone on the Geelong list) is better than Chris Judd, or Adam Goodes or Scott West. If you have seen Ablett play then you will realise how special he was, not just at kicking goals or taking strong marks (like say Tony Lockett) but the way he played was spectacular, he could take on almost anyone and win out, and could do anything on his day.

 

[mark73]

So insult him from having bias, is he not entitled to having an opinion if it is biased? I don't think Gary Ablett Jnr (or anyone on the Geelong list) is better than Chris Judd, or Adam Goodes or Scott West. If you have seen Ablett play then you will realise how special he was, not just at kicking goals or taking strong marks (like say Tony Lockett) but the way he played was spectacular, he could take on almost anyone and win out, and could do anything on his day.

So could the other two.I can recall Ablett kicking many goals against North, but I also recall games where Carey ripped the entire Geelong side apart.See the difference?
Matthews was just a freak.The most "credentialled" football person that exists.In any case my votes are;

1 Vote - Ablett - Goalkicker
2 Votes - CAREY - Goalkicker, matchwinner, premierships
3 Votes - BARNEY - All three.

 

[amos]

Something that I find amazing is that Leigh Mathews won the AFLPA MVP as a 30 year old in the twilight of his career. It was also the award's inaugrial year in 1982 (incidently the same year Lethal won his 8th best and fairest). I think it'd be a safe bet to say he would've won a few more had they started it when Mathews did in 1969. This award is voted on by players' peers and is probably the best indication of how good a player is/was. The award was there throughout both Carey's and Ablett's careers;

Carey won it twice in fifteen years.
Ablett won it once in fifteen years.
Mathews won it once in three years.

Footnote :

Winners of the MVP take home the Leigh Matthews trophy, named after the league’s first MVP, Hawthorn champion Leigh Matthews, in 1982. In 2002, AFL players voted to name their prestigious peer based award after the player they considered the most valuable of all time, Leigh Matthews.

Source, AFLPA website.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

If I wanted to see a freak show then I would throw the ball to Ablett. If I wanted to win the match then I would throw the ball to Carey or Matthews. Every time.

Ablett may have kicked over 1000 goals but when the goal assists of Carey and Matthews are taken into account, they streak past Ablett.


This continual narrow minded view by Geelong supporters is indicative of where their club has been for the last 30 plus years.

get your head out of your butt. every post of yours i read, i lose IQ points.

that last comment is pure troll, go away and let everyone else have a sensible discussion.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

I am puzzled by the present outcome of this poll.

Carey and Matthews won games for their clubs, Ablett just kicked goals.

You're puzzled?? Because not everyone agrees that the player from your side was better?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

im sure geelong supporters think that tom hawkins should be on the list as well. concidering he will be your next option and u have chalked him in as your saviour. oh yeah and nathan ablett should be as well. i remember his 1st goal. make out to be the second coming of mr.ablett sr

ah the jealousy is strong in this one.

 

[col44]

If you measure by the only overall accepted stat (popular opinion) of who was the best, then who comes out the winner?
More than 45% of people believe that Ablett was the best. We have no more impartial stat than that... so that can be the only 'most accurate' result.
End of thread.

I would have thought our top sport writers would be the "most accuarte"

The writers have listed the greatest Aussie sports stars from the last 30 years.

Carey at 4
Matthews at 10
Ablett at 17

Carey is ranked the highest out of any football code.

"If you were building a side - Carey would be the first picked" for sheer brillance - Gary Ablett comes in at 17.

End of thread[/QUOTE]

But Matthews played for 6 years before that 30 years started.

 

[tin can sam]

Tell me, is anybody going to change the minds of any of the supporters of the 3 clubs??????

NO

Stop trying, they will continue to believe it, and it dosn't matter how much you argue, this will not change

For the record, I voted Ablett