Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

[owen87]

Essendon supporters: we hold on to players who aren’t up to it for too long this club sucks.

Also Essendon supporters: we delisted guys who weren’t up to it this club sucks.

 

[boncer34]

Essendon supporters: we hold on to players who aren’t up to it for too long this club sucks.

Also Essendon supporters: we delisted guys who weren’t up to it this club sucks.

I think Bruno's argument is we delistsd guys who we didn't know they weren't up to it at the expense of keeping guys we know aren't.

And he's not exactly wrong.

 

[owen87]

I think Bruno's argument is we delistsd guys who we didn't know they weren't up to it at the expense of keeping guys we know aren't.

And he's not exactly wrong.

Or we delisted guys who weren’t up to it, and have more guys to delist who also aren’t up to it.

Sadly there’s a limit to how quick you can delist them all.

 

[fairbump_playon]

The Eyre and Brand result was certainly wasteful

It’s either poor drafting, development or list management or likely a combo of all 3.

Felt at that stage like let’s do hunger games with a bunch of talls we don’t rate or believe in. A couple will survive .

 

[cAsEy_18]

We do go down the path of drafting projects who clearly are not going to play for a few years at least (by our own admission) and then delist them after anywhere between 2-4 years. Which just doesn't make much sense.

When people talk about depth also, we have had an issue with the balance of our list, and how many spots are allocated to certain positions. Rucks usually gets a fair amount of chatter, and everyone seems to settle on the sweet spot of about 4. But in recent years we've had an inordinate amount of key defenders on the list, somewhere as high as about 8 at a time. It feels like we've just taken about 5 swings at a young key defender hoping 1 sticks. What then happens is we have 2 injuries in our midfield, and all of a sudden anyone who can play midfield is in the team, and the VFL literally doesn't have an AFL listed midfielder playing (low priority, I know). But we haven't had that balance quite right.

 

[boncer34]

Or we delisted guys who weren’t up to it, and have more guys to delist who also aren’t up to it.

Sadly there’s a limit to how quick you can delist them all.

Sure either theory is possible.

 

[boncer34]

We do go down the path of drafting projects who clearly are not going to play for a few years at least (by our own admission) and then delist them after anywhere between 2-4 years. Which just doesn't make much sense.

When people talk about depth also, we have had an issue with the balance of our list, and how many spots are allocated to certain positions. Rucks usually gets a fair amount of chatter, and everyone seems to settle on the sweet spot of about 4. But in recent years we've had an inordinate amount of key defenders on the list, somewhere as high as about 8 at a time. It feels like we've just taken about 5 swings at a young key defender hoping 1 sticks. What then happens is we have 2 injuries in our midfield, and all of a sudden anyone who can play midfield is in the team, and the VFL literally doesn't have an AFL listed midfielder playing (low priority, I know). But we haven't had that balance quite right.

Thing about depth the argument is we keep Weid, for example, as "depth" because hes a mature body with AFL experience.

I'd rather keep a younger Brand or Eyre as depth than a bloke we know isn't up to it. Weid isn't going to magically improve at 26/27? But maybe Brand or Eyre would as they start to approach maturity age. Maybe>No chance.

 

[cAsEy_18]

Thing about depth is the argument is we keep Weid, for example, as "depth."

I'd rather keep a younger Brand or Eyre as depth than a bloke we know isn't up to it. Weid isn't going to magically improve at 26/27? But maybe Brand or Eyre would as they start to approach maturity age. Maybe>No chance.

Interesting one.

You need a certain number of guys who you'd feel comfortable saying "You're not ideal best 22, but we've got this 2 week injury, and we need you for 2 weeks" (eg: Hind replacing Guelfi and/or Redman this weekend).
Then you need a certain number of guys who are younger, developing types, who you don't really want to play yet if you don't have to, but who you're confident about (eg: Lewis Hayes at the moment).

I feel like we've had a few too many of the latter on the list for quite a while, as in upwards of about 8 guys who when going into the season, you don't really want to play. You then get into a situation where you might have 6-7 injuries at one point in the season, and all of a sudden anyone who is fit and not a beanpole is playing.

 

[JayJ20]

Well it's an Essendon rebuild so:

- two NGA KPPs drafted for year 1 of the rebuild were delisted at the end of year 2. Of course one is thought of so highly by the reigning premier that it signed him as an SSP selection during a 12 week injury recovery to start its premiership defence. Both played almost every week in the VFL for 2 years;

- a 28 yo KPP who has been injured for 75% of game time for 4 previous seasons was given a 2 year deal and then missed the whole first year of that deal (due to injury). Re-signed within weeks of NGAs being delisted;

- a dud 7th year KPF was signed for 3 years within weeks of the NGAs being delisted;

- a promising rookie with grunt / pseudo KPF is delisted after 2 years. He now plays for Fremantle;

- committed 2 list spots to young KPPs injury ravaged over 3 to 4 previous seasons;

- a playmaker who can kick the eyes of out a game is shipped to Hawthorn because we couldn't find a place for him;

- an average 24 year old offensive wingman is signed, so we can move another offensive wingman to half back;

- a slow 26 year old small forward is signed as an FA;

- a dud/slow small forward is re-signed for 2 years;

- a fan favourite gun who is past it is brought out of retirement despite not having VAFA B grade fitness;

- 2 to 3 nippy small forwards on the list fit to play at any given time don't play;

- s**t 30 year old former captain, whose career is best defined by a single overrated season 10 years ago, plays every game he is fit to play. This could explain part of reason playmaker now plays for Hawthorn;

- 35 yo ruckman signed and will play every game he is fit to play;

- a gun mid no one wanted is unnecessarily signed to a 6 year deal.

I guess it is all necessary for the culture!?

I've spent way too long on this post trying to decipher each player. I still don't know the dud 7th year KPF is. Or the dud/slow small forward that re-signed for 2 years. Or the 2 or 3 nippy small forwards (maybe the Davey twins?).

 

[boncer34]

I've spent way too long on this post trying to decipher each player. I still don't know the dud 7th year KPF is. Or the dud/slow small forward that re-signed for 2 years. Or the 2 or 3 nippy small forwards (maybe the Davey twins?).

Weideman

Davey/Tex

 

[BrunoV]

Thing about depth the argument is we keep Weid, for example, as "depth" because hes a mature body with AFL experience.

I'd rather keep a younger Brand or Eyre as depth than a bloke we know isn't up to it. Weid isn't going to magically improve at 26/27? But maybe Brand or Eyre would as they start to approach maturity age. Maybe>No chance.

And it's supposed to be a rebuild. No one at Essendon is allowed to say it but all of Scott's language is that of rebuild. He does mask it well.

During a rebuild a side will usually prioritise development of the list over immediate results. This doesn't have to be the North scorched earth debacle. It can be as simple as not having 26 to 28 yo KPPs on the list as depth when quality and durability are obvious problems. It can be prioritising characteristics the list lacks. If we won a final and got found out at the end of 21 or 22 for a lack of mature KPPs that would be a scenario in which the mature tall depth would be justified, although I still wouldn't agree with it. We are not talking about 28 or even 30 yo Michael Hurley here. As much as an advocate of Stewart as I have been he is not that kind of cultural figure.

We've actually gone the other way. We are now less hardballl than the last time we were found out in a final or even just crushed by about 220 points in 2 weeks while supposedly playing for a spot in the finals.

So much of this stuff has happened immediately pre or post Scott appointment. He is up to his neck in it and he can't even argue it is for the benefit of having a well balanced 22 and list.

You don't bring Duursma and Gresham onto a list to set standards. That's pure nonsense. How is it any different to Jared Polec and tattooed defender North brought in? No such understanding is afforded by Essendon fans to other clubs who make these sorts of decisions. People don't seem to be able to see it when it is happening to them in real time.

Scott has form blowing up lists. He doesn't let go. That's a problem for us because Duursma, Gresham, Guelfi, Heppell, etc are the incumbents. The former 2 have long contracts. So does Parish. There is an assumption that lists progress naturally, that the kids just take over. Why do people think I am always complaining that the kids don't take over? Because there is nothing organic about it.

If you want to know why Geelong has maintained its competitiveness it is really because it always has kids coming through to progress the evolution of the side. It's not always many kids but it's always a constant and controlled evolution. So, for example, when they couldn't play front half footy, Miers and Close were added and Menzel who kicked almost 40 goals the season ended was swapped for the ground level bite of Rohan. Weaker on paper but better balanced and played in a GF almost immediately because of that change. Even now when they are playing Bruhn and Clarke who are not currently better players than the likes of Menegola.

 

[JayJ20]

Well it's an Essendon rebuild so:

- two NGA KPPs drafted for year 1 of the rebuild were delisted at the end of year 2. Of course one is thought of so highly by the reigning premier that it signed him as an SSP selection during a 12 week injury recovery to start its premiership defence. Both played almost every week in the VFL for 2 years;

- a 28 yo KPP who has been injured for 75% of game time for 4 previous seasons was given a 2 year deal and then missed the whole first year of that deal (due to injury). Re-signed within weeks of NGAs being delisted;

- a dud 7th year KPF was signed for 3 years within weeks of the NGAs being delisted;

- a promising rookie with grunt / pseudo KPF is delisted after 2 years. He now plays for Fremantle;

- committed 2 list spots to young KPPs injury ravaged over 3 to 4 previous seasons;

- a playmaker who can kick the eyes of out a game is shipped to Hawthorn because we couldn't find a place for him;

- an average 24 year old offensive wingman is signed, so we can move another offensive wingman to half back;

- a slow 26 year old small forward is signed as an FA;

- a dud/slow small forward is re-signed for 2 years;

- a fan favourite gun who is past it is brought out of retirement despite not having VAFA B grade fitness;

- 2 to 3 nippy small forwards on the list fit to play at any given time don't play;

- s**t 30 year old former captain, whose career is best defined by a single overrated season 10 years ago, plays every game he is fit to play. This could explain part of reason playmaker now plays for Hawthorn;

- 35 yo ruckman signed and will play every game he is fit to play;

- a gun mid no one wanted is unnecessarily signed to a 6 year deal.

I guess it is all necessary for the culture!?

That's because Essendon's list strategy is hoarding KPPs, specifically KPDs and HBs. The reason why a talent like D'Ambrosio left to begin with is because Heppell and Kelly were prioritised.

Lewis Hayes and Bryan are going to leave. And then to replace them, they are going to select other KPDs...

who will then stay in the VFL and continue the cycle of hoarding KPPs and HBs that will never play AFL.

The player I never saw a need for that I still don't care for is Kelly. If we were so set on playing Heppell, then why was recruiting Kelly necessary during a rebuild?

 

[supportyourteam]

it's a build. Forget the re.

 

[BrunoV]

That's because Essendon's list strategy is hoarding KPPs, specifically KPDs and HBs. The reason why a talent like D'Ambrosio left to begin with is because Heppell and Kelly were prioritised.

Lewis Hayes and Bryan are going to leave. And then to replace them, they are going to select other KPDs...

who will then stay in the VFL and continue the cycle of hoarding KPPs and HBs that will never play AFL.

The player I never saw a need for that I still don't care for is Kelly. If we were so set on playing Heppell, then why was recruiting Kelly necessary during a rebuild?

I don't have a problem with Kelley because we have about 5 players with backbone and his is the biggest/strongest by a long way.

If you're going to have 'culture' players he is what they look like. He'll run harder than basically everyone all pre-season, he'll lift more in the gym and will then attack the ball with more intensity than anyone else. That's the example that needs to be set for the list.

 

[Maxabillions]

You project anger. It's not anger and virtually never is.

I suspended emotional investment until the team is worth it. It happened about 10 years ago and it's very liberating. I even enjoyed watching my first live game against Hawthorn in years just to see the bigger picture again.

It's my team. How do you follow another team? How does it mean anything when times are good,?

How do you follow something that is no good by having unrealistic expectations of the mediocrity? All of the disappointment, abusing players, actual anger you see people post during games. My memories of people at games ranting and raving which doest seem to happen as much anu more because it is not as socially acceptable. That looks exhausting to me.

Amy positives you can think of?

 

[Vander18]

Amy positives you can think of?

We have gone from the envy of the competition to a laughing stock over the last 20 years....what are you looking for?

Yes, there is probably something good happening somewhere but it’s no more than a drop in the ocean that is our systemic, organisational incompetence. Maybe Vozzo and Scott will be the answer but that hasn’t yet emerged as clearly the case.

 

[yodellinhank]

it's a build. Forget the re.

Every club is always building.

 

[Lore]

The Eyre and Brand result was certainly wasteful

It’s either poor drafting, development or list management or likely a combo of all 3.

Felt at that stage like let’s do hunger games with a bunch of talls we don’t rate or believe in. A couple will survive .

It was the result of unexpected list size reductions from covid.

 

[supportyourteam]

Every club is always building.

Yes. Including the Essendons. Could be some erecting done tomorrow night. Looking forward to it.

 

[Mikevk123]

I’m not sold on Scott tbh. He’s a good front man and has his head screwed on but he hasn’t changed from his ways at North.

At least at North he had some decent talent available. But his unwillingness to take risks with the younger players and state where the club is at will set us back another five years. Too many cheerleaders in the media pump us up year after year yet our list is quite ordinary. Giving games too Weideman, Kelly, Laverde and Guelfi last year while letting Mass, Voss, Bryan and Baldwin rot in the VFL is another reason we’re stuck in no man’s land.

Another thing I find perplexing is the role change off Martin. He was on the verge of the all Australian squad last year as a wingman but they move him? He hits the scoreboard too. We had Mass on the list who was perfect for the half back role yet he left due to lack of opportunity.

Leaving Hobbs out as well as starting Tsatsas as sub last week is another frustration. We need to bite the Bullet now and recruit properly before Tassie hoards all the talent.

 

[BrunoV]

Amy positives you can think of?

There are always positives.

I wouldn't pick 2 players for half back in the whole league before Ridley and Redman (though Redman was not good v Hawthorn). Thrown in McKay and even McGrath as a small defender and that's a really good and varied defensive 4 to build a team on.

Merrett has had his Cotchin moment when he went from stat padder to really good player.

Perkins first up was encouraging. He has all the tools to be something special. That may well be as a guy who does his best work mainly forward of the ball. It's a tough thing to learn the game from half forward. I like the idea of him and Caldwell in a team together. It's a nice combination of running power, aggression and class. I'd like to see them with more prominent positions on ball, certainly if Perkins can develop his stoppages game.

I like Setterfield.

I still believe the Draper-Bryan combination can be league leading, though I'm starting to get worried about Bryan. It's time for him to consistently dominate the lower level. He might just be a bit too nice.

 

[ant555]

I don't have a problem with Kelley because we have about 5 players with backbone and his is the biggest/strongest by a long way.

If you're going to have 'culture' players he is what they look like. He'll run harder than basically everyone all pre-season, he'll lift more in the gym and will then attack the ball with more intensity than anyone else. That's the example that needs to be set for the list.

This part is what I do not get about a lot of Essendon supporters. I do not mind Kelly either. What I do not understand is why a lot take aim at the blokes who are a bit blue collar yet after the game complain that we do not compete.

 

[yodellinhank]

Yes. Including the Essendons. Could be some erecting done tomorrow night. Looking forward to it.

That's the Bomber Boner spirit.

 

[bomberlegend2007]

You project anger. It's not anger and virtually never is.

I suspended emotional investment until the team is worth it. It happened about 10 years ago and it's very liberating. I even enjoyed watching my first live game against Hawthorn in years just to see the bigger picture again.

It's my team. How do you follow another team? How does it mean anything when times are good,?

How do you follow something that is no good by having unrealistic expectations of the mediocrity? All of the disappointment, abusing players, actual anger you see people post during games. My memories of people at games ranting and raving which doest seem to happen as much anu more because it is not as socially acceptable. That looks exhausting to me.

Na, I can’t buy that. Emotional investment is what you’re doing right now. If there wasn’t, you would simply turn it off, stop supporting, stop watching. Not only are you doing all three, you’re then doubling down by posting on here.

What I don’t understand is how very little you look at the positives that the club is doing. For example, the cub investing in the football program is great, but a glass have empty look is “that should have happened years ago.”

But, I look at your last point and how are you any different to them? The people that scream at the footy could be just a reaction. To post on here, it’s a thought, it’s measured.

Trust me, I do read your posts and do respect your opinions, but at times when I read something you post, I do say to myself, can this club do anything right?

 

[ant555]

Na, I can’t buy that. Emotional investment is what you’re doing right now. If there wasn’t, you would simply turn it off, stop supporting, stop watching. Not only are you doing all three, you’re then doubling down by posting on here.

What I don’t understand is how very little you look at the positives that the club is doing. For example, the cub investing in the football program is great, but a glass have empty look is “that should have happened years ago.”

But, I look at your last point and how are you any different to them? The people that scream at the footy could be just a reaction. To post on here, it’s a thought, it’s measured.

Trust me, I do read your posts and do respect your opinions, but at times when I read something you post, I do say to myself, can this club do anything right?

You should hear the pain in his voice when he calls Wheatley on SEN . Even Gerrard has commented on hearing the pain / frustration in his voice