MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way

[Scotland]

Do these gender KPI's exist in nursing and community service type roles?

Not that I am aware of.

 

[Scotland]

Field with female majority - nothing to see here, move along.
Field with male majority - patriarchy, male privilege, glass ceiling.

Female going into male dominated industry - industry has to accommodate female.
Male going into female dominated industry - male has to accommodate industry.

That is legitimately how the "logic" works.

Females can't get into construction and engineering because the patriarchy won't let them and have to become nurses and primary school teachers and those industries become female dominated and get paid less because of the gender pay gap. Flawless logic.

 

[Catfish Alley]

I don't really know any men or women that complain about this stuff. Seems like one of those things that media latches on to but if you actually talk to your circle of family or friends it's not an issue.

 

[Cmarsh]

Not that I am aware of.

Male nurse myself.

Can confirm there has never been a push from local health districts, nurses union or any organisation within the health sector to even up the 90-10 female to male ratio that exists in nursing.
Noone sees it as a problem.

 

[kickazz]

Male nurse myself.

Can confirm there has never been a push from local health districts, nurses union or any organisation within the health sector to even up the 90-10 female to male ratio that exists in nursing.
Noone sees it as a problem.

Interesting. Knew a guy who was a primary school teacher and he said schools were keen to get him. Not sure if there were quota targets or anything though

 

[Scotland]

Primary schools are keen on male teachers because there are so few of them and it's actually beneficial to the school to have them, unlike other industries where a gender balance doesn't actually make a material difference.

I've never seen a 'men only' job posting, though.

 

[Cmarsh]

Negative and largely unquestioned cultural portrayals of men in nursing like Meet the Fockers don't help to swing the gender balance either.

 

[Demosthenes]

If your career prospects are so perilous that you have to worry about affirmative action taking them away, then it's probably an indication that you need to get better at your job.

Male nurse myself.

Can confirm there has never been a push from local health districts, nurses union or any organisation within the health sector to even up the 90-10 female to male ratio that exists in nursing.
Noone sees it as a problem.

The distinction people are missing is that the problem isn't ratios per se - it's the reasons for the ratios. If you had huge numbers of men who are successful in the health sciences yet not pursuing it as a career (or dropping out of the workforce) then there would be a similar push to what you see regarding women in maths/engineering.

Sector capability loss is by far the main reason for affirmative action, because that's expensive and bad for business. Ratios are just a means of illustrating it in some circumstances.

 

[Scotland]

Ah, so it's the reasons now.

Women don't go into maths/engineering because they don't want to. Men don't go into nursing/primary teaching because they don't want to.

 

[Scotland]

If your career prospects are so perilous that you have to worry about affirmative action taking them away, then it's probably an indication that you need to get better at your job.

If your career prospects are so perilous that they rely upon affirmative action, then it's probably an indication that you need to get better at your job.

 

[the_interloper]

Male nurse myself.

Can confirm there has never been a push from local health districts, nurses union or any organisation within the health sector to even up the 90-10 female to male ratio that exists in nursing.
Noone sees it as a problem.

I'm guessing when at the nursing pissups at uni you wouldn't be too keen to change that ratio either. Geez if you couldn't pick up in that scenario you might as well give up.

 

[Demosthenes]

Ah, so it's the reasons now.

Women don't go into maths/engineering because they don't want to. Men don't go into nursing/primary teaching because they don't want to.

"They don't want to" is a meaningless phrase.

The health sciences don't experience a chronic and progressive leakage of male talent throughout education and career, unlike the hard sciences and female talent. It's that simple, and that's the reason for the differing treatment. Companies accommodate people they want to keep.

It's perfectly understandable that keeping more talent in an industry threatens the men who are low on the totem pole, however that's business. Git gud.

 

[Scotland]

'Leakage of talent', * me.

If you counted everyone in this country with a 'hard sciences' degree you'd battle to get a 75/25 split.

 

[Run n Spread]

The reasons are vast, but most people that fall in the extreme spectrum of these things be can be summed up with that old chestnut wake up and bump into an arsehole, then you've bumped into an arsehole.... but when you when you bump in ten assholes....

The chip on the shoulder at all things life is amazing.

A chip on the shoulder comes with both genders equally.

Yet if what you say is true and the male chip is caused by - can't pick up- then technically they are arguing for the wrong solution. They should work out how to pull rather than equality.

I look at it more women are disillusioned = Feminism or a group cause
Men disillusioned - they are more likely to splinter off or MGTOW.

 

[Scotland]

I'm guessing when at the nursing pissups at uni you wouldn't be too keen to change that ratio either. Geez if you couldn't pick up in that scenario you might as well give up.

I reckon you'd have a better chance picking up at a nursing function as a doctor or lawyer or tradie than as a male nurse.

 

[Run n Spread]

I don't really know any men or women that complain about this stuff. Seems like one of those things that media latches on to but if you actually talk to your circle of family or friends it's not an issue.

Not that people complain in my circle experience. More that they when the latest trend/fad/quota occurs that directly affects them you see the eyes roll.

 

[Run n Spread]

I reckon you'd have a better chance picking up at a nursing function as a doctor or lawyer or tradie than as a male nurse.

True. Thou the weird thing is growing up tradies themselves were looked down on. Only since the shortage/property and mining booms that they became cashed up women took an interest.

 

[Run n Spread]

Does it mean young men who just hook up and don't get in a relationship

That's most young men. The option however isn't really an option for most men long term.

 

[Scotland]

True. Thou the weird thing is growing up tradies themselves were looked down on. Only since the shortage/property and mining booms that they became cashed up women took an interest.

Working with your hands etc. became desirable the minute it attracted a 6 figure salary.

 

[Run n Spread]

Working with your hands etc. became desirable the minute it attracted a 6 figure salary.

It is a weird one. In that these guys had no interest in them, suddenly got cashed up and have loads of interest but men who then get rich quickly are unlikely to want to settle down and happily play the field.

 

[FootyJunkie]

 

[Run n Spread]

To all the MGTOW 'haterz', what do you believe men should be doing in 2017?

Interesting question. Don't really know to be honest.

I would say get necessary skills to be in high demand and build your own life from there based on your own choices.

But that would apply to anyone and is hard to do as with a shortage of jobs and increasing competition nothing is guaranteed. Many unemployed graduates and those working in a different field.

Hard to give a generic response as a lot depends on personal circumstance.

 

[Scotland]

It is a weird one. In that these guys had no interest in them, suddenly got cashed up and have loads of interest but men who then get rich quickly are unlikely to want to settle down and happily play the field.

People want different things, which is fundamental to why this thread even exists.

People get hung up thinking that everyone that thinks like this:

Not that people complain in my circle experience. More that they when the latest trend/fad/quota occurs that directly affects them you see the eyes roll.

...is some lonely woman hating loser who can't get a job or a girlfriend and is threatened by women being anything other than housewives or nurses.

http://www.professionalsaustralia.o...uploads/sites/48/2014/03/WOMEN_IN_STEM_v2.pdf

Only 28 per cent of employed STEM-qualified Australian workforce aged 15 years and over were female in 2011 compared
to 55 per cent for all fields in the tertiary qualified population. This figure stood at 14 and 86 per cent for females and
males respectively in Engineering and related technologies, and 25 and 75 per cent for females and males in Information
technology.

Puts into perspective things like BHP's 50/50 target.

 

[Scotland]

Interesting question. Don't really know to be honest.

I would say get necessary skills to be in high demand and build your own life from there based on your own choices.

But that would apply to anyone and is hard to do as with a shortage of jobs and increasing competition nothing is guaranteed. Many unemployed graduates and those working in a different field.

Hard to give a generic response as a lot depends on personal circumstance.

Agree with the bolded 100%. Unfortunately that sort of logic doesn't apply to hard and fast quotas and the "need" for on-paper diversity.

I'd hate to be a male STEM graduate over the next couple of years. Economy in the shitter and industry leaders mandating gender quotas on an imbalanced talent pool. How many graduate jobs do you reckon there are per 100 people in engineering and technology each year? 10? 20? 50? New graduate rates are closer to 30/70 but stiff s**t to the dozens of males who miss out, right? They should've studied harder and got better marks. That's the sort of logic you see from people like Demosthenes.

There has to be an end goal to this social engineering rubbish. You can't force women into engineering, construction etc. against their will. Take-up (as above) is dependent on personal circumstance. The only thing you can do is force men out. That's how quotas work by design. So you either end up with qualified men who are wasted, or a smaller field of qualified people overall.

Do people want to see men abandoning these fields? Unemployed? Taking up nursing? Save for immigration and births/deaths/retirements, the labour market is a closed system. It's not like renewable energy where fossil fuel dependence decreases over time. If you take an industry that is 80/90% male and make it 50/50, then those 30-40% males have to go somewhere. There doesn't seem to be any foresight about this. It's a race to the bottom sold under the guise of diversity.

Could all be done so much better.

 

[Demosthenes]

'Leakage of talent', **** me.

If you counted everyone in this country with a 'hard sciences' degree you'd battle to get a 75/25 split.

We currently graduate roughly similar numbers of women and men from STEM degrees, but the subsequent female attrition rate is magnitudes higher. That has a massive impact on the talent pool, hence companies' interest in rectifying it.

The reality is that anybody who stands to lose their job prospects due to affirmative action, probably wouldn't have them in the first place if their industry was better at retaining talent.

This is a hard truth for people to accept, understandably.