MGTOW - Men Going Their Own Way

[Neese]

I'm betting you weren't concerned with the engineering ratio either

We had our Librarian pissups with the mechanical engineers, all was well

 

[Scotland]

We currently graduate roughly similar numbers of women and men from STEM degrees, but the subsequent female attrition rate is magnitudes higher. That has a massive impact on the talent pool, hence companies' interest in rectifying it.

The reality is that anybody who stands to lose their job prospects due to affirmative action, probably wouldn't have them in the first place if their industry was better at retaining talent.

This is a hard truth for people to accept, understandably.

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/12/...roblem-is-getting-3-9m-in-government-funding/

It's not news that women are underrepresented in STEM related studies and professions. Only one in four IT graduates and fewer than one in 10 engineering graduates are women.

"This is a hard truth for people to accept, understandably."

 

[the_interloper]

I'm betting you weren't concerned with the engineering ratio either

Of the birds that were doing engineering probably 85% were 5 out of 10 or less. One hot bird (nice chick too) was on scholarship for engineering and commerce. She was pretty out of my league ha ha

 

[Demosthenes]

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/12/...roblem-is-getting-3-9m-in-government-funding/



"This is a hard truth for people to accept, understandably."

There is more to STEM than IT and engineering. 2014 DET data has women at 43-51%, depending on how you define the term, and the gap's narrowed since.

The reality is that regardless of industry or gender breakup, female STEM attrition rates greatly outstrip men across the board. Given that females tend to be better graduates in STEM fields (on average they outperform men academically and are more likely to complete postgraduate studies) it's no wonder companies want to keep women in the workforce.

It always amuses me that so many men who think of themselves as economically liberal are so hell-bent against private enterprises doing something that benefits their businesses. I guess everybody gets a bit hypocritical when their own interests are threatened.

 

[Scotland]

There is more to STEM than IT and engineering. 2014 DET data has women at 43-51%, depending on how you define the term.

In a new study released by the Office of Chief Scientist, women were found to make up less than a third of STEM university graduates, while the physics, astronomy and engineering industries presented even lower numbers.

http://www.smartcompany.com.au/star...stem-study-reveals-critical-gender-disparity/
http://www.chiefscientist.gov.au/2016/03/report-australias-stem-workforce/

I'd say the DET figure if 43-51% is pretty dubious.

The reality is that regardless of industry or gender breakup, female STEM attrition rates greatly outstrip men. Given that females tend to be better graduates in STEM fields (they outperform men academically and are more likely to complete postgraduate studies) it's no wonder companies want to keep women in the workforce.

And non-STEM attrition rates? I'd be very surprised if any industry had higher attrition rates for males over females. Of the women I know that are currently not working due to recently having children they previously worked in banking, interior design, health, engineering and education. Not a STEM phenomenon.

There is also a big difference between studying something and doing something. Everyone's heard that girls are more mature than boys at school and girls outperform boys at school, and this continues to a degree into university. Most of the best students from my time at uni haven't gone on to be the most successful in the workforce.

The difference between studying accounting and doing it is pretty minimal. If you study to become a teacher, you know what the job entails. The STEM field is very different. Anyone can study geology or metallurgy or subsea geophysics or whatever it is you're into, but that's not the same as spending 12 hours a day in an open pit mine cutting cones, or getting covered in mud and chemicals or spending weeks off shore on a rig or FPSO... these are jobs that most men don't want to do, and unpopular as it is even more women don't want to do them.

(FWIW according to this fact sheet more women than men have bachelor degrees, more men than women have post-grad degrees: https://www.wgea.gov.au/sites/default/files/GradStats_factsheet_2016.pdf)

It always amuses me that so many men who think of themselves as economically liberal are so hell-bent against private enterprises doing something that benefits their businesses. I guess everybody gets a bit hypocritical when their own interests are threatened.

What does economic liberalism have to do with anything? The chapter on making business decisions based on gender wouldn't feature in many liberal economics textbooks.

 

[Demosthenes]

The reality is that in STEM fields, on balance, women are better graduates yet vastly more likely to leave (or never enter) the industry.

Any sensible company will look at those stats, conclude that there's an underutilised resource there, and take advantage of it to secure the cream of the crop.

It's not personal, not PC, not even about gender really. It's just smart business.

 

[Scotland]

The reality is that in STEM fields, on balance, women are better graduates yet vastly more likely to leave (or never enter) the industry.

Any sensible company will look at those stats, conclude that there's an underutilised resource there, and take advantage of it to secure the cream of the crop.

Any sensible company would focus on attracting the best and brightest that actually want to work in the field.

It's not personal, not PC, not even about gender really.

 

[ABSOLUTE MADMAN]

https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2016/12/...roblem-is-getting-3-9m-in-government-funding/



"This is a hard truth for people to accept, understandably."

You must feel like Tucker Carlson with the amount of tomato cans you have dealt with in this thread.

 

[radiojake]

Was up in Brisbane during xmas/new year time just a couple of months back - at mum's and we're having lunch with a couple of aunts/uncles and some cousins were there - One of the cousins who would be pushing 30 years old now spends 15 hours a day on his computer locked in his room - Has never had a job in his life (his dad and two of his brothers are doctors) and I'm gonna make a wild guess that he's never had a girlfriend either (though I've never asked him that) - In his defense he is on the spectrum and clearly isn't interested in making too many friends - If he's interested in a topic that's bought up he'll throw his two cents in, otherwise it's like drawing blood from a stone to try to get an opinion out of him. He just doesn't really talk that much

Anyway, so that's him - he's always been like that. I can't quite remember how this we got onto this topic but my brother mentioned patriarchy when suddenly our cousin comes out with "pffff.. if it even exists..."

We stopped and looked at him, and then he just starts quoting MGTOW rubbish - I had to laugh because it pretty much confirmed in my mind that all the MGTOW losers are exactly like my cousin - sitting online with no friends who have found a community of other losers - The sad thing is they have chosen to pick women as the source of their depression/loserdom instead of the structural confines of our political economy that bind them

 

[Scotland]

We stopped and looked at him, and then he just starts quoting MGTOW rubbish - I had to laugh because it pretty much confirmed in my mind that all the MGTOW losers are exactly like my cousin

Y is X therefore all X are Y.

 

[radiojake]

Y is X therefore all X are Y.

when it was the very first time I've seen MGTOW mentioned in real life (i.e, not the internet) and he is what he is, it's hard not to come to such conclusions

 

[Scotland]

when it was the very first time I've seen MGTOW mentioned in real life (i.e, not the internet) and he is what he is, it's hard not to come to such conclusions

Where do you stand on people seeing one Muslim dude on TV carrying out a terrorism attack and categorising all Muslims on that basis?

 

[radiojake]

I guess you are right, there is a chance that many MGTOW advocates are charismatic, successful in their chosen fields and are socially very adept

Still makes them losers, though

 

[Catfish Alley]

I thought they liked women but just didn't want to commit. A new term for 'confirmed bachelor'

 

[radiojake]

I thought they liked women but just didn't want to commit. A new term for 'confirmed bachelor'

I would hazard a guess that many wouldn't be able to commit even if they wanted to -

 

[Scotland]

The logic jumps ITT...

 

[iluvparis]

I thought they liked women but just didn't want to commit. A new term for 'confirmed bachelor'

I thought Gough was a 'confirmed batchelor'?

 

[radiojake]

By the way, I'm very much happy with the fact I have no intention of getting married or having kids - I don't envision myself doing either (but hey, who knows, right?)

Marriage as an institution is fairly archaic and I'm not interested in it

Doesn't mean that I blame women for any of my problems, though

 

[Catfish Alley]

Is that the difference between saying your MGTOW or just a bachelor? They're actually making a stand against women and don't want much to do with them?

 

[Scotland]

How many people 'say they're MGTOW'?

 

[Catfish Alley]

Yeah, I've never met anybody saying it. Should this thread just be called 'Single Guys'?

 

[Scotland]

It's a ridiculous blanket term.

Are all the happily married men and women who think gender quotas are bullshit loser single guys?

 

[radiojake]

mgtow isn't just about gender quotas

 

[Run n Spread]

The sad thing is they have chosen to pick women as the source of their depression/loserdom instead of the structural confines of our political economy that bind them

The structural confines of our Political Economy prevent them from getting women which is the source of their depression. What really can they do thou?

By the way, I'm very much happy with the fact I have no intention of getting married or having kids - I don't envision myself doing either (but hey, who knows, right?)

Marriage as an institution is fairly archaic and I'm not interested in it

Doesn't mean that I blame women for any of my problems, though

Admit it. Your cousin is you.

 

[Run n Spread]

My 2 cents.

In past centuries women found the structural confines of Society, Prejudiced and discrimination against them and lack of opportunity to fully engage in society and been treated unfairly meant they got fed up and formed a partnership with other like minded females to form a movement in order to obtain better standing and treatment.

In todays world many men feel different confines yet that they are confined, treated unfairly and upset about the outdated roles expected of them. Yet a movement like feminism will never take off for men as the competition between men and lack of I will say innate ability to bond socially as well as women will mean everyone sort of just splinters off and does their own thing.

In a sense Social Rules and Rituals are important in bonding society establishing roles and forming a type of Social Contract to maintain order. However if people feel they are not benefiting/been rewarded for playing their role/are cast in a role they hate or just plain think it is unfair they will not participate and agitate for change. i.e. Feminism/ Revolution (at the very extreme end) and this weird MGTOW thread where men just sort of stop.