Michael Voss vs. Luke Hodge

[Monkey King]

Jezza was undoubtedly a champ, believe he is a legend in the HOF. However when you quoted his outstanding GF/Flag record I didn't really recall it. Not saying he didn't do well in finals, he did. I don't recall any history of him being a GF specialist so to speak.

For Carlton I reckon it's either Dom, Doull, Sticks or Big Nick as the consistent big time finals players.

And EDIT: How about Bruce Doull in 72'? Deserves a mention ahead of Jezza IMO.

 

[Procrastinator35]

For Carlton I reckon it's either Dom, Doull, Sticks or Big Nick as the consistent big time finals players.

Big Nick was good....No coincidence Balme & Green targetted him in 1973.

The Dominator was definitely a big game performer....Doull you couldn't fault, other than in 86, his last game.

Kernahan seldom got the better of Langford in finals, but otherwise pretty good....Always felt Fitzpatrick was under-rated.

Still have Jezza over & above em all though....Without a shadow

 

[Gone Critical]

I doubt that....And Jezza no votes in 1970?....Come on.

Jezza was Full Forward. Barassi moved him away to CHF after half time and had Nicholls and Hopkins become the focal point in attack. Jezza kicked 3:1 on a sunny day at the MCG in perfect conditions in a season where he kicked 115 goals. On the MCG in his previous 2 finals he kick 8 goals and 4:7. He kicked bags of goals through the year. Blueseum, the comprehensive supporter site list him at about 7th best for Carlton that day/ Wikis report has about the same. If they did a NSM that day both Carlton and Collingwood players would have voted with Carlton dominating. Crosswell and McKay would have been expected to contest the medal. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't near BOG as you claim. How could he be with 3 goals as a FF in an era when FFs dominated with big bags.

Just give me a reference to go to to show me this is wrong.

 

[Masqualero]

The rest of the AFL world thinks Hodge is an AFL champion mate, except you and MK.

Best you deal with it.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Results of the poll say otherwise...

 

[Procrastinator35]

Jezza was Full Forward. Barassi moved him away to CHF after half time and had Nicholls and Hopkins become the focal point in attack. Jezza kicked 3:1 on a sunny day at the MCG in perfect conditions in a season where he kicked 115 goals. On the MCG in his previous 2 finals he kick 8 goals and 4:7. He kicked bags of goals through the year. Blueseum, the comprehensive supporter site list him at about 7th best for Carlton that day/ Wikis report has about the same. If they did a NSM that day both Carlton and Collingwood players would have voted with Carlton dominating. Crosswell and McKay would have been expected to contest the medal. He wasn't terrible but he wasn't near BOG as you claim. How could he be with 3 goals as a FF in an era when FFs dominated with big bags.

Just give me a reference to go to to show me this is wrong.

Well....Having watched 1970 again, a few observations Gone Critical:

Has there ever been a bigger pair of shorts worn than those on Big Nic?....Hips twice the circumference of most players....How they played through all those streamers is anyone's guess.

Now to the footy:

It was a game of 2 halves....Collingwood should have had it sewn up at half time but for atrocious kicking....Has there ever been a worse 2nd half of footy than that played by Des Tuddenham?....Terrible.

Carlton were on fire in the 3rd qtr kicking 7 straight....The only thing that stopped their momentum was 6 disgraceful consecutive decisions by umpire Jolley.....Embarrassing....Otherwise Carlton would have won in a canter IMO.

McKay a clear stand-out for B.O.G honors....A Colossus....The entire Carlton defense in that second half was unstoppable....You could throw a blanket over 5 others for 2nd best, including Jezza.

Now to Jezza: That mark of course, in the 2nd quarter....one of the blues few highlights.

Played a major hand in Carltons 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th (he kicked it), 6th & 8th (again, his) goals in their 3rd quarter run.

In the final quarter he passes to Big Nic in the square for a goal after taking another speccy. to get the Blues back to within 1 point....He kicks the ball forward to Walls who's goal is ruled a point.....He then kicks the sealer at the 26 minute mark to effectively win it for Carlton.

You can see why the AFL record has him at first, for his telling contributions at crucial stages....But I agree with you....McKay easily there.

 

[Lethality]

Check again. Voss kicked 36 goals in 2002. Polled more B&F votes p/game than any other Lions player. Won the MVP. You're point was sunk quite a few posts ago ... let it go.

We were talking about 2003 though. My point was that Voss had fewer contested possessions per game than even a young Judd that year, to which you brought up Voss' 36 goals, but he only kicked 20 that season.

 

[Gone Critical]

Well....Having watched 1970 again, a few observations Gone Critical:

Has there ever been a bigger pair of shorts worn than those on Big Nic?....Hips twice the circumference of most players....How they played through all those streamers is anyone's guess.

Now to the footy:

It was a game of 2 halves....Collingwood should have had it sewn up at half time but for atrocious kicking....Has there ever been a worse 2nd half of footy than that played by Des Tuddenham?....Terrible.

Carlton were on fire in the 3rd qtr kicking 7 straight....The only thing that stopped their momentum was 6 disgraceful consecutive decisions by umpire Jolley.....Embarrassing....Otherwise Carlton would have won in a canter IMO.

McKay a clear stand-out for B.O.G honors....A Colossus....The entire Carlton defense in that second half was unstoppable....You could throw a blanket over 5 others for 2nd best, including Jezza.

Now to Jezza: That mark of course, in the 2nd quarter....one of the blues few highlights.

Played a major hand in Carltons 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th (he kicked it), 6th & 8th (again, his) goals in their 3rd quarter run.

In the final quarter he passes to Big Nic in the square for a goal after taking another speccy. to get the Blues back to within 1 point....He kicks the ball forward to Walls who's goal is ruled a point.....He then kicks the sealer at the 26 minute mark to effectively win it for Carlton.

You can see why the AFL record has him at first, for his telling contributions at crucial stages....But I agree with you....McKay easily there.

Yes yes yes yes, I know I know I know. Worst day of my life.

As to Tuddy his biggest sin was KOing McKenna in the 2nd Q. McKenna says he has no recollection of the 2nd half , I wish I could join him.

Jezza was an all time great and for him had an good OK day that day. I don't dispute his greatness just dispute he want to special levels in GFs. His normal level was fantastic but his GFs just good. Not similar to Hodge in that regard which was my point.

Anyway enough of 1970. If we keep it up MK may want to join in and we don't need Carlton input into such a discussion

Lastly can I congratulate you in spurning your family and turning away from evil. Commendable character trait.

 

[Dom PC]

We were talking about 2003 though. My point was that Voss had fewer contested possessions per game than even a young Judd that year, to which you brought up Voss' 36 goals, but he only kicked 20 that season.

Just so it is very clear, you don't think Voss was ever the best player in the league?

 

[Lethality]

Just so it is very clear, you don't think Voss was ever the best player in the league?

Not what I am saying.

 

[Monkey King]

We were talking about 2003 though.

Yeah nah ....

He didn't even win the BnF for Brisbane in 2002.

I know you find it impossible to admit when you're wrong, but your point was sunk some time ago podge. Time to move on!

 

[Lethality]

Yeah nah ....

That isn't the post from which you replied that Voss' goals might be the explanation. It's actually on the next page.

'There still has to be some sort of proof in the numbers. In 2003 he was well behind even a young Chris Judd in contested possessions, and with none of the breakaway speed or goalkicking'

To which you replied that 36 goals might be the explanation, yet Voss only kicked 20 that year as I pointed out.

 

[Dom PC]

Not what I am saying.

When was Hodge the best player in the league then?

 

[Lethality]

When was Hodge the best player in the league then?

Hodge was arguably the best player in the competition in 2010.

 

[Dom PC]

Hodge was arguably the best player in the competition in 2010.

Better than GAJ? Better than Goddard? Better than Judd? Better than Hayes? Better tham Swan?...really?

Mike Sheahan rated him the 7th best player that year. I'd reckon that is a fair ranking.

 

[Lethality]

Better than GAJ? Better than Goddard? Better than Judd? Better than Hayes? Better tham Swan?...really?

Mike Sheahan rated him the 7th best player that year. I'd reckon that is a fair ranking.

He was ranked 2nd in both the MVP and aflca

 

[Demonated]

He was ranked 2nd in both the MVP and aflca

2nd in an award Voss won twice, an award you yourself have tried to discredit. Also Swan won that MVP by a record margin if memory serves correct, seems like that is a pretty big consensus of who the best player that year was.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Lastly can I congratulate you in spurning your family and turning away from evil. Commendable character trait.

Funny...And true.

Don't know why, but whenever I ventured into Collingwood as a kid (which wasn't often), I always felt unsafe & unclean.

Kids have an uncanny intuitive sense that way.

 

[Gone Critical]

Funny...And true.

Don't know why, but whenever I ventured into Collingwood as a kid (which wasn't often), I always felt unsafe & unclean.

Kids have an uncanny intuitive sense that way.

Remember that's when you were morphing into that leafy suburb, lunch at the club type knob so your fear factor in being around ordinary normal people might have been creeping off the scale.

 

[Lethality]

2nd in an award Voss won twice, an award you yourself have tried to discredit. Also Swan won that MVP by a record margin if memory serves correct, seems like that is a pretty big consensus of who the best player that year was.

I haven't tried to discredit the award at all, and a 2nd placing would be equal to or better than Hirds best placing.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Remember that's when you were morphing into that leafy suburb, lunch at the club type knob so your fear factor in being around ordinary normal people might have been creeping off the scale.

Are we still in Collingwood?

Can only recall breweries, tattoo & pinball parlors, TAB's, back-alleys & graffiti.

 

[Monkey King]

That isn't the post from which you replied that Voss' goals might be the explanation. It's actually on the next page.

Nope. Here's is what I replied to "Yes, and both in premiership years in which he didn't finish Top 20 for possessions or contested possessions or clearances. He didn't even win the BnF for Brisbane in 2002."

Every post of mine since has referred to his MVP win of 2002 and his B&F results. You got lost on your own tangent, but keep deflecting, I'm outtie. Not going around on your endless loops of irrationality.

 

[Lethality]

Nope. Here's is what I replied to "Yes, and both in premiership years in which he didn't finish Top 20 for possessions or contested possessions or clearances. He didn't even win the BnF for Brisbane in 2002."

You replied to both of the posts, your reply to the post about 2003 was the comment about the 36 goals.

Every post of mine since has referred to his MVP win of 2002 and his B&F results

Yeah but it was in response to a post about 2003, which is why your comment was inaccurate.

In any case, care to venture an opinion about the seemingly poor stats from 2003?

 

[Dom PC]

In any case, care to venture an opinion about the seemingly poor stats from 2003?

He won the Lions B&F (in premiership year), AA selection (as captain), the AFL MVP and the most senior AFL journalist rated him as the best player of the 2003 season.

...and you think everyone got it wrong because in your opinion he didn't average enough in the stats department?

You need to just accept it and stop fighting it. There is so much going against you. It's amazing you're still posting on this thread.

 

[Lethality]

He won the Lions B&F (in premiership year), AA selection (as captain), the AFL MVP and the most senior AFL journalist rated him as the best player of the 2003 season.

...and you think everyone got it wrong because in your opinion didn't average enough in the stats department?

You need to just accept it and stop fighting it. There is so much going against you. It's amazing you're still posting on this thread.

No, I'm just asking for an explanation. How did he win the award for example with such poor output?

 

[Gone Critical]

Are we still in Collingwood?

Can only recall breweries, tattoo & pinball parlors, TAB's, back-alleys & graffiti.

Think you were there but couldn't stop gazing over that river. Too much green in your eyes. I can understand what you were running from but you went too far. Should have stayed north of the river in the flats. Sure you have seen a lot of flags but you haven't been a Collingwood supporter.

You Hawks only know the real worth of Hodge. We Pie supporters only know the real joy of supporting. You don't
realise it because you can't but there is nothing better than supporting the Pies. Nothing.