Names on Jerseys

[krisholio14]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I've never heard a fan muttering 'Geez, I don't know who player x for Team x is, but geez, if he had a big flashing neon sign above his head with his name on it I would' either, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't help. People just don't say something like that out of the blue. Maybe next time try actually asking one of the 'not even casual fans' and see what they say.

Is that right?

What does it mean then, when I have heard supporters say many times at games where there are clashes 'Why isn't team x wearing a clash jumper today, i'm having trouble telling them apart?'. Hell, the last time we played Collingwood when they wore white shorts and we wore blue shorts, I was saying that. And so were my friends. We were all having difficulty identifying the teams in pack situations. So if we can sit there asking aloud why teams don't do something to make them easier to identify in that situation, why wouldn't they do the same with players?

Bottom line is, people really don't care that much if the names aren't on the back. And as i've said ad bloody nauseum, the people that want it want it because that's what all the 'cool' sports do so we need to be cool too.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

Re: Names in Jerseys

A name suggests the number is owned by the player, when in reality it is his privilege to be wearing it

 

[the heat]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Personally, I think the names on the back is a bad idea. The names (as aforementioned on this thread) would be difficult to put on a vertical stripes jumper or a jumper with text already below the collar (e.g. Brisbane Lions=BBFFC, Port Adelaide=1870) without cluttering, and therefore ruining, the design. Also, knowing the number for every player of your club without the need for names on the guernseys leaves you feeling pretty proud and intelligent. I certainly take pride in knowing pretty much every Lions player and player on my club teams number without any prior denotation.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Is that right?

What does it mean then, when I have heard supporters say many times at games where there are clashes 'Why isn't team x wearing a clash jumper today, i'm having trouble telling them apart?'.

Because you can still enjoy the game without knowing the name of every player, but not without being able to tell the teams apart.

 

[butters78]

Re: Names in Jerseys

simple. if you dont like how it is piss off and watch soccer or cricket you tossers. leave the f--k-n game alone

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: Names in Jerseys

other sports prove this is not so. otherwise why would they do it? people identify easier with names, not numbers. surely you have watched socceroos at least casually and loved to see who Cahill and Kewell are by seeing their names on the back and not some number.

Private ownership. Impossible to compare American sports teams (the only non-national teams who really leap out at me as not putting sponsors logos on part of their uniforms) to a membership-driven club. The billionaires who own these clubs don't need the revenue (for the most part) and don't want to be seen as the first NBA/NFL/MLB owner to sell out their team's uniform to make a bit more money that they don't need.

By the time the camera is close enough to make the names legible during a soccer game, I will already recognise Kewell and Cahill either by the numbers they have worn for several years (#10/#4) or by their features/running style/size/position on the ground.

 

[Bambino]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I think the people who are saying you can't see the numbers should think about all the stoppages we have, the lining up for goal, etc where the camera is regularly zoomed in. I remember watching the Gaelic Aus vs Ireland our players had their names on the jumper and I could see them pretty good on the tv, and I don't even have HD or a massive screen.

In relation to that example again, if I was to buy a Aus Gaelic jumper I would buy the one with my favourite player on it, not my favourite number. It would be the same again for my team, I'd get the player I would prefer.

It doesn't need to take up much space and to be honest I don't think jumper sales would fall because of it. If anything they would rise. If you support your team and want to buy their colours, I think the large majority would still do this rather than say 'nope, boycotting buying a jumper due to someones name on the back'.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Re: Names in Jerseys

By the time the camera is close enough to make the names legible during a soccer game, I will already recognise Kewell and Cahill either by the numbers they have worn for several years (#10/#4) or by their features/running style/size/position on the ground.

Of course you will, because you know who they are in advance. But what if you're watching your first soccer game? Or what if you're a casual follower who's trying to work out which one's Carl Valeri and which one's Jason Culina?

 

[wizardking]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I think the people who are saying you can't see the numbers should think about all the stoppages we have, the lining up for goal, etc where the camera is regularly zoomed in. I remember watching the Gaelic Aus vs Ireland our players had their names on the jumper and I could see them pretty good on the tv, and I don't even have HD or a massive screen.

In relation to that example again, if I was to buy a Aus Gaelic jumper I would buy the one with my favourite player on it, not my favourite number. It would be the same again for my team, I'd get the player I would prefer.

It doesn't need to take up much space and to be honest I don't think jumper sales would fall because of it. If anything they would rise. If you support your team and want to buy their colours, I think the large majority would still do this rather than say 'nope, boycotting buying a jumper due to someones name on the back'.

I'd have to agree with this.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Because sponsorship is integral to ensuring that our clubs survive? How much extra revenue do you think would be made by selling jumpers with names on the back? Nowhere near as much as a sponsor's logo.

You have successfully managed to totally support my point.

That the generation of money supercedes the emotional connection of modern AFL supporters to their players. Why celebrate the player when we could earn his annual salary simply by emblazoning the "sacred" guernsey with yet another Emirates or Dick Smith logo (no question mark required ... it's rhetorical).

You know, over the years there's been entire threads on this very board extolling the virtues of various clubs at various times for their capacity to generate profits. These leading me to conclude that such financial success is genuinely perceived by some as a worthy surrogate for actual success i.e onfield.

By the way, do you know why sponsorship is now integral to ensuring clubs survival? Because we as a football following community have made it so.

Just like phone companies have made mobile phones a necessity to us all now, when we survived quite satisfactorily without them for quite a long time. We've now been made to need them, like modern clubs have been made to need the extra revenue.

 

[Suspense]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I'm yet to see you prove that. I'm sure you think you have though.

as i've said, it's common sense. i see your av and i know exactly who that is. now in a match, whether i see the names of players, even if it is briefly and intermittently, it is still a more direct form of identification than no name at all.

And just to turn it around.....im still yet to hear a valid opposing argument that isn't simply a matter of personal preferences

im not arguing from personal preference.

You've also managed to endorse that yes, there are visibility issues, so perhaps this 'easier identification' you keep taking about isn't quite as easy. Certainly not as easy as a big number on the back, and in some instances - the front, the shorts, or the shoulders.

i've never suggested removing the numbers; the name is obviously in addition to the number. should a viewer catch the name on the back, they can make a direct identification to a specific player. names and numbers provide better, easier and more direct forms of identification than simply numbers on their own? why? because a knowledge of number-name combination is not required. now, of course the names aren't going to be visible at all times and i've never said as much, but even if their effect is a mostly passive one (ie. only seen when the action is up close, seen when the camera is zoomed in etc.) it is one that provides for better, direct identification then no names at all. not important to you, but helpful to newcomers and casual fans.

Idiot. The size of an Australian football field is so much bigger than other sports that have names on their backs anyway. As if you can tell who it is by looking at the tiny lettering on their back.

eyesight giving out on you, mateship?

Why would AFL clubs use up a part of the guernsey that would make ideal advertising space?

That's the thing about most AFL "traditionalists" ... they'd hardly bat an eyelid if their club turned up sporting a (or should I say yet another) Qantas, Toyota or Vodafone emblem on the club guernsey, yet claim it's sacred territory when something as practical as the player's name enters the argument.

it's hilarious.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Re: Names in Jerseys

You have successfully managed to totally support my point.

That the generation of money supercedes the emotional connection of modern AFL supporters to their players. Why celebrate the player when we could earn his annual salary simply by emblazoning the "sacred" guernsey with yet another Emirates or Dick Smith logo (no question mark required ... it's rhetorical).

You know, over the years there's been entire threads on this very board extolling the virtues of various clubs at various times for their capacity to generate profits. These leading me to conclude that such financial success is genuinely perceived by some as a worthy surrogate for actual success i.e onfield.

By the way, do you know why sponsorship is now integral to ensuring clubs survival? Because we as a football following community have made it so.

Just like phone companies have made mobile phones a necessity to us all now, when we survived quite satisfactorily without them for quite a long time. We've now been made to need them, like modern clubs have been made to need the extra revenue.

I know it's rhetorical. Your whole post is. I'll tell you what you can do. Remove all sponsorship and go back to running your footy club on the proceeds of pie nights and chook raffles. Just an oval and some witches hats is all you need. A scout who works on a voluntary basis. A senior coaching staff of one. Let's see how much on-field success your footy club has then, when competing with clubs who have millions of dollars to spend on building the best football team they can because of the sponsorship revenue they generate.

 

[Bollox]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Why ? ...in case u forget who it is ?

Stupid idea.

Just say no to weak fickle teletubbies wanting to ruin our traditonal jumpers...they'll think anything is a great idea as long as its already done offshore.

 

[soupaman]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I think the people who are saying you can't see the numbers should think about all the stoppages we have, the lining up for goal, etc where the camera is regularly zoomed in. I remember watching the Gaelic Aus vs Ireland our players had their names on the jumper and I could see them pretty good on the tv, and I don't even have HD or a massive screen.

In relation to that example again, if I was to buy a Aus Gaelic jumper I would buy the one with my favourite player on it, not my favourite number. It would be the same again for my team, I'd get the player I would prefer.

It doesn't need to take up much space and to be honest I don't think jumper sales would fall because of it. If anything they would rise. If you support your team and want to buy their colours, I think the large majority would still do this rather than say 'nope, boycotting buying a jumper due to someones name on the back'.

This post mentions what is probably the closest thing to a case study we can find for this matter: international rules.

In my experience with International Rules, I have found that the different squad, jumpers and player numbers put me on the same level as someone new to the game. I'll have a decent knowledge if who the big names are, but struggle with the lesser known players.

However, in identifying who the players are I have very rarely used the names on the back of a players jumper. This is because live I am too far away to read them, and on tv I find out who they are from the commentators before I get a glance at the back of their jumper from an awkward angle.

So in the IR series the names were of almost no benefit in identifying players.

Someone earlier mentioned that there are plenty of examples of where the play is slow enough to read names, including players lining up for goal and stoppages. However, stoppages are pointless because there are 20 players around them, meaning that the 2 names you see are only a slim chance of getting it, and you only see 2 names because the nature if the game has players bumping into each other, moving around and jostling fir position, stoppages aren't nearly as "stopped" as the name implies.

As for lining up for goal, if you can't figure out their name from the commentator talking about how they got the ball, their recent goal kicking record and why they're good, or from the pop up that tells you their stats you are in trouble, and at the ground their name comes up on the screen anyway.

I'm also curious how often they would even be useful on tv. How many instances in a match does the player in possession stand on an angle so that the camera has a clear view of their back? Not many. Most of the time the player will be side on to the camera, and only tends to turn their back on the camera if they are ducking and weaving around players who may get in the cameras way, or are switching the play.

Now I can see that there are benefits. Obviously it will help identification of players in some instances and it offers more personalization. However, I don't feel changing it actually obtains the desired results, and goes a long way to changing the look and feel of our jumpers, which are idly something I care about but don't now why.

The arguments for the change all discount the against arguments as being overly sentimental and not having any real substance, but I fail to see how the argument for change has any more substance. It's based on the premise that people will magically be able to instantly recognize the players with the names, a nd that this will mean more newcomers will take an interest in the game.

Really to me it looks like the a classic case of trying to fix something that ain't broke.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I know it's rhetorical. Your whole post is. I'll tell you what you can do. Remove all sponsorship and go back to running your footy club on the proceeds of pie nights and chook raffles. Just an oval and some witches hats is all you need. A scout who works on a voluntary basis. A senior coaching staff of one. Let's see how much on-field success your footy club has then, when competing with clubs who have millions of dollars to spend on building the best football team they can because of the sponsorship revenue they generate.

There's no getting the shit back into the horse. And anyway, I'm kinda partial to the comfort level that accompanies modern footy.

My point is that when serious sponsorship emerged in the 1970's, it was to coincide with colour television. Supporter club banners draped around the boundary fences were outlawed and replaced with Sanyo and CUB. The greater opportunities for product promotion brought more cash into the game, leading to larger player salaries and higher TV rights deals. All we are seeing now is a continuing snowball of this trend.

So whilst "traditionalists" lament the loss of such things as Saturday arvo footy, sacred club guernseys and other previously non-negotiables, these same folks also seem to bend over effortlessly as soon as they see that it's the mighty sponsorship dollar that is actually replacing the traditions they previously enshrined.

I would not be the one surprised to see how quickly and painlessly the process of renaming the MCG as the "McG" would be with staunch traditionalists if there were to be an accompanying six-figure sum added to each club's coffers for the privilege. Or the Brownlow Medal becoming the Motorola Flipout Medal for a season. Or the famous "Navy Blues" becoming the "M&M Blues" for a home fixture.

And yes, I have a mobile phone.

 

[scarecrow2k1]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Besides it would look stupid and forced- like seeing names and numbers on cricket shirts for ODIs and Twenty20s. They didn't need them for 100+ years, they dont need them now

 

[aabamo]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I would like to see names go onto jumpers.

Checking player names online is time consuming during a game (live OS so dont have access a record for reference)

I need instant gratification. Especially for younger players, and debutants etc..
can and do check online for names and numbers, but takes 5 min and several menus/web redirects worth of clicking to check. So I'm all for names on the back. Nothing flashy, just a simple white name, with plain capitals so you can tell who a bloke is quickly and easily.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I would like to see names go onto jumpers.

Checking player names online is time consuming during a game (live OS so dont have access a record for reference)

I need instant gratification. Especially for younger players, and debutants etc..
can and do check online for names and numbers, but takes 5 min and several menus/web redirects worth of clicking to check. So I'm all for names on the back. Nothing flashy, just a simple white name, with plain capitals so you can tell who a bloke is quickly and easily.

You have got to be kidding me

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Besides it would look stupid and forced- like seeing names and numbers on cricket shirts for ODIs and Twenty20s. They didn't need them for 100+ years, they dont need them now

Just doesn't stack up as a viable argument for anything nowadays.

(Although it worked okay for 100+ years )

 

[Sloth]

Re: Names in Jerseys

A bit mean to put names on the backs of cows don't you think?

 

[irukandji]

Re: Names in Jerseys

What's the goal keeper's name? I can see he's number 25. Thanks for unexpectedly helping me illustrate my point.

CSI could zoom in on it no matter what the original resolution.

 

[nathan t]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Totally agree, would look good and personally i think it would be a good thing for the sport.

 

[Bomber32]

Re: Names in Jerseys

Nope. I hope they leave the guernseys alone. There is already enough advertising and other crap on them as it is.

 

[mattys123]

Re: Names in Jerseys

So what everyone here who agrees with the OP is saying is that we won't to "dumb down" our player guernseys, just so the uneducated in terms of our game can know who is who out on the field.

**** THAT.

Why should we pander to the unintelligent, the illiterate (who wouldn't be able to read the names anyway), the lazy and the downright stupid people out there, who need so much assistance they can't even take the time out to learn a few players numbers before each game.

I can't say I know every players number and name at every club, but do I care? NO, because it's part of what makes our game so unique.

Plus, to be honest, I couldn't give two ****s about who that new kid is playing for Melbourne (for example), I only care about my players, and I, like most true fans of the game, know every number of every player on their teams list, and that's enough for me.

 

[Wallaby]

Re: Names in Jerseys

I can't say I know every players number and name at every club, but do I care? NO, because it's part of what makes our game so unique.

Plus, to be honest, I couldn't give two ****s about who that new kid is playing for Melbourne (for example), I only care about my players, and I, like most true fans of the game, know every number of every player on their teams list, and that's enough for me.

Maybe you should try going to a game where there are two teams playing someday.

Lots of sports use numbers only on uniforms - lots use names as well. It doesn't make our game unique. It's a major marketing point, and like it or not, marketing is a huge part of any professional sport these days. Millions of dollars worth of team sporting apparel is sold purely as fashion.

My take is this. If we add names we aren't taking anything away from the demographic that like numbers - but we are helping those who do want names.

So I say go for it.

Just provided that clubs don't adopt those training tracksuits with their capitalised initials that were popular in the EPL a year or so ago. They really were sad.