Expansion National reserves competition in 2025. Are you in favour?

[Coach_Required]

Been saying the same thing for years, there needs to be a symposium convenerd with footy people from across the states to come upo with an overall gameplan for the future.

The AFL keep making random changes/decisions that are not in the interests of footy at the other levels and its time they did.

Agree, the AFL have a real chance to realign and strengthen the competition. It could benefit everyone at all levels but for some reason people don't want to think too far into it, must be too much hard work or they really only care about their immediate self interests.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Actually you could add ACT and N.T based state teams to that competition. All areas in Australia covered either in the AFL or second tier comps. Instead of the ridiculous assertion that N.T could have a team in the AFL with their tiny population.

Yes, NT Thunder is an obvious thought, it never really went anywhere after the NEAFL. Interesting the website is still live! Home » NT Thunder

As for ACT, Ainslie, Eastlake, Tuggeranong, Queanbeyan and Belconnen all competed in the NEAFL at some stage. Perhaps one of them would be interested, or a composite club.

 

[peetoo]

2 conferences, they each have a conference championship. then a grand final vs the winners. I reckon a pretty intense rivalry between interstate conference vs Vic conference would develop.

Local rivalries kick ass over interstate ones. Anyway they don’t allow competitions long enough without tweaks for rivalries to build.

The reserves without Victorian teams? Are people seriously suggesting it’s a goer?

 

[Dirty Bird]

Local rivalries kick ass over interstate ones. Anyway they don’t allow competitions long enough without tweaks for rivalries to build.

The reserves without Victorian teams? Are people seriously suggesting it’s a goer?

Only when a club is incapable at selling out a ground and you need the opposition fans to create an atmosphere.

But that's the problem with all Victorian clubs other than Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon and Geelong.

Naturally fans of the 6 Victorian minnows would prefer local rivalries as the games are better vs them than in the oversized concrete jungles you play in.

You look abroad and the best rivalries aren't local. Boston vs Los Angeles, Manchester United vs Liverpool, Real Madrid vs Barcelona, Dallas vs Philadelphia.

The best rivalries are between clubs of even stature. Not a couple of minnows geographically close.

 

[Cubs2Lions]

Yes, NT Thunder is an obvious thought, it never really went anywhere after the NEAFL. Interesting the website is still live! Home » NT Thunder

As for ACT, Ainslie, Eastlake, Tuggeranong, Queanbeyan and Belconnen all competed in the NEAFL at some stage. Perhaps one of them would be interested, or a composite club.

Eastleigh (rebranded as Canberra ……….) similar to what they did in the NEAFL would be the best bet of ACT entry.

 

[eth-dog]

Only when a club is incapable at selling out a ground and you need the opposition fans to create an atmosphere.

But that's the problem with all Victorian clubs other than Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon and Geelong.

Naturally fans of the 6 Victorian minnows would prefer local rivalries as the games are better vs them than in the oversized concrete jungles you play in.

You look abroad and the best rivalries aren't local. Boston vs Los Angeles, Manchester United vs Liverpool, Real Madrid vs Barcelona, Dallas vs Philadelphia.

The best rivalries are between clubs of even stature. Not a couple of minnows geographically close.

According to Google Maps, it takes the same amount of time between Windy Hill and Waverley as it does between Anfield and Old Trafford.

You can't really compare the AFL to the EPL in any regard, but especially this since the area of the entire UK is smaller than Victoria. It takes longer to drive between Adelaide and Sydney than it does from the northernmost part of Scotland (not including the islands) to the southernmost point of the UK. Liverpool vs United is local. They're next door to each other.

 

[peetoo]

Only when a club is incapable at selling out a ground and you need the opposition fans to create an atmosphere.

But that's the problem with all Victorian clubs other than Collingwood, Richmond, Essendon and Geelong.

Naturally fans of the 6 Victorian minnows would prefer local rivalries as the games are better vs them than in the oversized concrete jungles you play in.

You look abroad and the best rivalries aren't local. Boston vs Los Angeles, Manchester United vs Liverpool, Real Madrid vs Barcelona, Dallas vs Philadelphia.

The best rivalries are between clubs of even stature. Not a couple of minnows geographically close.

Minnows lol

 

[peetoo]

According to Google Maps, it takes the same amount of time between Windy Hill and Waverley as it does between Anfield and Old Trafford.

You can't really compare the AFL to the EPL in any regard, but especially this since the area of the entire UK is smaller than Victoria. It takes longer to drive between Adelaide and Sydney than it does from the northernmost part of Scotland (not including the islands) to the southernmost point of the UK. Liverpool vs United is local. They're next door to each other.

Take google maps journey estimates in UK and double it. A better estimation of travel ther. And rail is completely screwed

 

[Bunk Moreland]

The reserves without Victorian teams? Are people seriously suggesting it’s a goer?

Victoria is the biggest footy state and needs a state league. It’s proven as an important development step. However, because there’s so many AFL clubs, it doesn’t work on its own. The state league and the AFL reserves were merged into one comp for very good reason and it’s the structure that works.

Destroying that for the sake of “national reserves” - ie interstate clubs claiming they can’t have reserves in their own state leagues - doesn’t make any sense.

Particularly when those interstate clubs can have a perfectly functional reserves competition on their own. There’s eight of them, soon to be nine, plus interested standalone clubs if they were keen (Southport would be, even if they’re only one).

An 18-club reserves competition actually presents no tangible benefit, but does present issues:

- The 10 Vic AFL clubs don’t actually want it. The status quo works best for them - they don’t want to have to be dragging 23 extra players (incl part time topups) around the country when they have a perfectly functional and competitive reserves comp locally

- It would kill the VFL, which would need to be heavily subsidised by the AFL in order to survive. That would be a huge cost.

All things considered, the two-comp proposal makes the most sense for all parties:

VFL
Box Hill (Hawthorn)
Casey (Melbourne)
Carlton
Coburg
Collingwood
Essendon
Frankston
Footscray
Geelong
North Melbourne
Northern Bullants
Port Melbourne
Richmond
Sandringham (St Kilda)
Werribee
Williamstown

AFL2
Adelaide
Brisbane
Fremantle
Gold Coast
GWS
Port Adelaide
Southport
Sydney
Tasmania
West Coast
NT Thunder?
Canberra?

Vic gets its state league, the Vic AFL clubs retain their preferred model, and the interstate AFL clubs get the new model they want (AFL reserves). It’s a win across all parties.

 

[1990crow]

Victoria is the biggest footy state and needs a state league. It’s proven as an important development step. However, because there’s so many AFL clubs, it doesn’t work on its own. The state league and the AFL reserves were merged into one comp for very good reason and it’s the structure that works.

Destroying that for the sake of “national reserves” - ie interstate clubs claiming they can’t have reserves in their own state leagues - doesn’t make any sense.

Particularly when those interstate clubs can have a perfectly functional reserves competition on their own. There’s eight of them, soon to be nine, plus interested standalone clubs if they were keen (Southport would be, even if they’re only one).

An 18-club reserves competition actually presents no tangible benefit, but does present issues:

- The 10 Vic AFL clubs don’t actually want it. The status quo works best for them - they don’t want to have to be dragging 23 extra players (incl part time topups) around the country when they have a perfectly functional and competitive reserves comp locally

- It would kill the VFL, which would need to be heavily subsidised by the AFL in order to survive. That would be a huge cost.

All things considered, the two-comp proposal makes the most sense for all parties:

VFL
Box Hill (Hawthorn)
Casey (Melbourne)
Carlton
Coburg
Collingwood
Essendon
Frankston
Footscray
Geelong
North Melbourne
Northern Bullants
Port Melbourne
Richmond
Sandringham (St Kilda)
Werribee
Williamstown

AFL2
Adelaide
Brisbane
Fremantle
Gold Coast
GWS
Port Adelaide
Southport
Sydney
Tasmania
West Coast
NT Thunder?
Canberra?

Vic gets its state league, the Vic AFL clubs retain their preferred model, and the interstate AFL clubs get the new model they want (AFL reserves). It’s a win across all parties.

No

 

[Bunk Moreland]

No

OK, i'm convinced.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Agree, the AFL have a real chance to realign and strengthen the competition. It could benefit everyone at all levels but for some reason people don't want to think too far into it, must be too much hard work or they really only care about their immediate self interests.

 

[peetoo]

On the other hand the reserves arrangements have been fiddled with for years. Surely they have found best fit

For a radical take. How about 12 a side with 2 or more on interchange and reduced playing time, played at the same venue as seniors.

25 seniors 14 reserves 39 players. Most of the coaching staff can have dual roles. Cheaper travel costs.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Agree, the AFL have a real chance to realign and strengthen the competition. It could benefit everyone at all levels but for some reason people don't want to think too far into it, must be too much hard work or they really only care about their immediate self interests.

Self interest? That would be people thinking having a national reserves comp would be beneficial. What a massive waste of money that would be to put into something that is a training exercise and will be about 4th tier footy.
Self interest = AFL

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Victoria is the biggest footy state and needs a state league. It’s proven as an important development step. However, because there’s so many AFL clubs, it doesn’t work on its own. The state league and the AFL reserves were merged into one comp for very good reason and it’s the structure that works.

Destroying that for the sake of “national reserves” - ie interstate clubs claiming they can’t have reserves in their own state leagues - doesn’t make any sense.

Particularly when those interstate clubs can have a perfectly functional reserves competition on their own. There’s eight of them, soon to be nine, plus interested standalone clubs if they were keen (Southport would be, even if they’re only one).

An 18-club reserves competition actually presents no tangible benefit, but does present issues:

- The 10 Vic AFL clubs don’t actually want it. The status quo works best for them - they don’t want to have to be dragging 23 extra players (incl part time topups) around the country when they have a perfectly functional and competitive reserves comp locally

- It would kill the VFL, which would need to be heavily subsidised by the AFL in order to survive. That would be a huge cost.

All things considered, the two-comp proposal makes the most sense for all parties:

VFL
Box Hill (Hawthorn)
Casey (Melbourne)
Carlton
Coburg
Collingwood
Essendon
Frankston
Footscray
Geelong
North Melbourne
Northern Bullants
Port Melbourne
Richmond
Sandringham (St Kilda)
Werribee
Williamstown

AFL2
Adelaide
Brisbane
Fremantle
Gold Coast
GWS
Port Adelaide
Southport
Sydney
Tasmania
West Coast
NT Thunder?
Canberra?

Vic gets its state league, the Vic AFL clubs retain their preferred model, and the interstate AFL clubs get the new model they want (AFL reserves). It’s a win across all parties.

In what universe would this be good for the two major state leagues the WAFL and the SANFL?

 

[eth-dog]

In what universe would this be good for the two major state leagues the WAFL and the SANFL?

The WAFL and SANFL have alienated an AFL reserves side each. If they hadn't done that, this wouldn't be a serious discussion.

The VFL need the AFL clubs reserves to survive. The WAFL and SANFL don't, they have enough grassroots support not to need Port or West Coast. If Adelaide and Freo want to join them in a bid for AFL reserves, the SANFL would still have 8 sides and the WAFL 9 (assuming that Freo break their Peel alignment to play it).

In essence, why should the AFL cater to leagues that have pissed their member teams off?

 

[Coach_Required]

Self interest? That would be people thinking having a national reserves comp would be beneficial. What a massive waste of money that would be to put into something that is a training exercise and will be about 4th tier footy.
Self interest = AFL

You need to go back and read my initial post before replying. I'm all for our local state leagues to get the required backing and funding that can sustain a national competition and reserves comp. The AFL sees itself as the governing body, then they should be acting like one. No point having a national reserves comp if they are prepared to let these state leagues continually diminish.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The WAFL and SANFL have alienated an AFL reserves side each. If they hadn't done that, this wouldn't be a serious discussion.

The VFL need the AFL clubs reserves to survive. The WAFL and SANFL don't, they have enough grassroots support not to need Port or West Coast. If Adelaide and Freo want to join them in a bid for AFL reserves, the SANFL would still have 8 sides and the WAFL 9 (assuming that Freo break their Peel alignment to play it).

In essence, why should the AFL cater to leagues that have pissed their member teams off?

You are reading to much AFL nonsense. The Eagles are the issue in the WAFL, Dockers not having any problem at all. Eagles have had a problem with aligning, Host teams, Stand alone teams and also the players spread throughout. Every single system the Eagles have a problem with. When in fact their is no problem at all. If the Eagles sorted their football department out and operated to an AFL level then they would not be decimated with injuries and put such pressure on their seconds.
Most of what you are probably reading is just blaming others because they don't want to admit how poor they have been at the top level.

And the AFl don't cater to those leagues, they have slowly destroyed them over many decades now, but they forget one thing which is that the players being drafted will still come from those leagues where as they will never ever come from AFL seconds.
If you want to waste money on things that will never ever improve the highest level, then just talk to the AFL, they know better than anyone how to waste money.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You need to go back and read my initial post before replying. I'm all for our local state leagues to get the required backing and funding that can sustain a national competition and reserves comp. The AFL sees itself as the governing body, then they should be acting like one. No point having a national reserves comp if they are prepared to let these state leagues continually diminish.

Why is a national reserves comp required? What clubs have not been winning flags because their has not a been a reserves comp? It's just money wasting. The reserves now are just development programs, it is not a real comp anyone is setting their sites on winning. It doesn't serve any purpose at all. Have 12 a side hitouts so they can train against each other but lets not kid ourselves a national reserves is going to be an important part of the club the fans will heavily invest in and attend. Like I said it will be full of kids who are not ready to play so it will be a colts comp and about 4th tier footy.

 

[Coach_Required]

Why is a national reserves comp required? What clubs have not been winning flags because their has not a been a reserves comp? It's just money wasting. The reserves now are just development programs, it is not a real comp anyone is setting their sites on winning. It doesn't serve any purpose at all. Have 12 a side hitouts so they can train against each other but lets not kid ourselves a national reserves is going to be an important part of the club the fans will heavily invest in and attend. Like I said it will be full of kids who are not ready to play so it will be a colts comp and about 4th tier footy.

You're just arguing for the sake of it now. There is a need because the northern sides, their state leagues are inadequate.
Currently there is way too many teams in the VFL comp. There needs to be an overhaul of all the comps. I can see both sides of the argument but doing it without properly looking at the SANFL and WAFL leagues will just hurt them even more and that's not thinking long term, it will not just hurt those leagues but also the development of players through those leagues.

 

[eth-dog]

You are reading to much AFL nonsense. The Eagles are the issue in the WAFL, Dockers not having any problem at all. Eagles have had a problem with aligning, Host teams, Stand alone teams and also the players spread throughout. Every single system the Eagles have a problem with. When in fact their is no problem at all. If the Eagles sorted their football department out and operated to an AFL level then they would not be decimated with injuries and put such pressure on their seconds.
Most of what you are probably reading is just blaming others because they don't want to admit how poor they have been at the top level.

And the AFl don't cater to those leagues, they have slowly destroyed them over many decades now, but they forget one thing which is that the players being drafted will still come from those leagues where as they will never ever come from AFL seconds.
If you want to waste money on things that will never ever improve the highest level, then just talk to the AFL, they know better than anyone how to waste money.

I never said anything about the Dockers having problems with the WAFL.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, West Coast are pissed at the WAFL. Port Adelaide are pissed at the SANFL. That's why both are exploring the possibility of joining the VFL, and in the case of Port, actually applied to do so

I can tell you a few things right now:

1. There are at least 12 clubs in Victoria that want the VFL to go back to its former iteration (all the AFL aligned teams, Coburg and Werribee, I don't have conclusive word on the others).
2. There are 5 teams north of the Victorian border that want to be in a more competitive league than the NEAFL.
3. There are two AFL teams that are considering leaving their state leagues for the VFL, one of which has applied to do so.
4. There's a Tasmanian team due for the state leagues by 2026 I believe. I don't think they'd care if it were in the VFL or an AFL reserves.

The conclusion to reach for all of the above is that teams outside Victoria have a reserves comp plus Southport and Tasmania if Adelaide and Fremantle want to join, the VFL goes back to its former iteration and the SANFL and WAFL go back to being fully independent comps.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

In what universe would this be good for the two major state leagues the WAFL and the SANFL?

Getting AFL clubs out of the comps means restoring some integrity to the competitions rather than the hybrid BS it is now where winning isn't at all important to a couple of clubs (or most clubs in the VFL, but that league is so bastardised its not a competition imo).
But really a Reserves comp would need to be exactly that. Reserves for AFL clubs ONLY. No VFA/VFL clubs, no alignments.

That would require larger AFL lists, probably mostly filled up with more 18-20 year olds who never get a senior game - and then drift back to state leagues as 20-21 year olds with a couple of years of AFL pre-seasons under their belts.
That may have flow on effect to player numbers in suburban and country leagues, state leagues (other than TSL, where some clubs struggle to field a team already) should be able draw players. And that's really the main downside.
The AFL has enough money to support reserves, and keep state leagues and clubs afloat. Finances don't need to be an issue, just re-allocated.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

In what universe would this be good for the two major state leagues the WAFL and the SANFL?

If the WAFL and SANFL want AFL reserves teams then they’ll make it work and this “national reserves” won’t be required. So scrap the idea.

If they don’t want them, it’ll be good for them to have them gone.

 

[aCunningPlan]

How does the Talent League (old TAC Cup) survive?

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

How does the Talent League (old TAC Cup) survive?

As an under18 comp. A genuine AFL reserves would still be players 18+ so really its not impacted.

Or, less likely:
Part of helping the VFL through the transition could be to take those teams, and their resources, into VFL Development and Colts leagues; and maybe for those outside Melbourne to add senior teams to the VFA/VFL.