Non-AFL chat thread part 2

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Chicago1

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Just remembered that it is 45 years ago this week that I arrived in Australia for the very first time. I was a mere 22 year old, just about to turn 23 the next week, all excited about teaching for a year or two here. Never would I have thunk that... well, you know the rest of the story.

Since the Bulldogs and the Cubs have both won their respective Premiership and World Series in my lifetime, my next goal should be to live another five years to make it to my 50th anniversary in 2025, but only under my terms.
 
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TommyD13

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If you have to go back 300,000 years to find your African ancestor then probably not.

There’s plenty of ‘Italians’ in Melbourne who have parents both born in Australia and none of them have ever been to Italy.

I don’t have the answers.

I have an English Uncle who married into the Irish side of my family. He pretty much turned into Mr Ireland after that. Insisted on buying a farmhouse in Ireland...despite none of the family living there anymore. Always the keenest for Paddy’s day. Massive Ireland rugby fan. It’s embarrassing.
My great grandfather was indigenous on my dads side, which means I am considered indigenous. Do I try to claim I am? No, I take one look in the mirror and I am paler than the average white bloke. Am I ashamed of it? No, quite the opposite in fact, I find it very intriguing to know where I’ve come from, but I don’t feel the need to trace back heritage and claim that it may or may not have disadvantaged me today. I am not an aboriginal, and that lady as Biden’s VP (forgot her name, apologies) is not African American. She may have the heritage but that doesn’t mean she is.


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Mantis Toboggan

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My great grandfather was indigenous on my dads side, which means I am considered indigenous. Do I try to claim I am? No, I take one look in the mirror and I am paler than the average white bloke. Am I ashamed of it? No, quite the opposite in fact, I find it very intriguing to know where I’ve come from, but I don’t feel the need to trace back heritage and claim that it may or may not have disadvantaged me today. I am not an aboriginal, and that lady as Biden’s VP (forgot her name, apologies) is not African American. She may have the heritage but that doesn’t mean she is.


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I’ve already admitted that I don’t know the rules and I don’t really have a stake in this either way.

However, Kamala Harris is clearly a Black woman and has every right to identify and such. Perhaps she has been discriminated against where you haven’t...I don’t know. If you appeared more indigenous perhaps you’d have suffered more issues, and maybe that’s the point.

She’s also from a very wealthy family by the looks of it so she’s probably had some advantages over the years.

I’d say socio-economic standing is more of a barrier these days than race.

It’s disappointing that her race is raised as a positive or a negative when it really shouldn’t have any influence on anyone either way.
 

Virgin Dog

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Lakers & Clips thinking about leaving the bubble.

Huge call to continue the playoffs if that happens

player vote tomorrow
I fully understand what they're trying to do here - make a political statement. What's odd to me is that they're doing it by shutting down the NBA, directly affecting the livelihoods of thousands of people who may not want to make their statement in this way, and doing nothing to address the treatment of black people at the hands of police.

Honestly, if full blown riots all over the US wasn't going to fix things, I struggle to see how shutting down the NBA would, but I guess if they feel this is the best way they can express themselves, then all power to them
 

wayniac

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I’ve already admitted that I don’t know the rules and I don’t really have a stake in this either way.

However, Kamala Harris is clearly a Black woman and has every right to identify and such. Perhaps she has been discriminated against where you haven’t...I don’t know. If you appeared more indigenous perhaps you’d have suffered more issues, and maybe that’s the point.

She’s also from a very wealthy family by the looks of it so she’s probably had some advantages over the years.

I’d say socio-economic standing is more of a barrier these days than race.

It’s disappointing that her race is raised as a positive or a negative when it really shouldn’t have any influence on anyone either way.
I'm not sure Kamala Harris has endured much discrimination. She has a Jamaican father and and an Indian Mother but who cares. She's done very well by crapping on people on the way up. She dated Willie Brown. If you don't know how corrupt and awful that guy is, just Google him.

Harris was district attorney in San Francisco when I lived there and she picked her battles, conveniently overlooking major crimes by the catholic church because her voter base was largely Irish catholic. She did manage to pad her stats with victimless criminals.

Just six months before Harris took office, a U.S. Supreme Court decision overturned a California law that had retroactively eliminated the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution of child molestation cases. That shifted the focus to holding predators among the clergy accountable through civil cases and through a broader effort to bring attention to predators who had been shielded by the church.

Hallinan believed that the clergy abuse files were a matter of public record; Harris refused to release them to the public.

In her seven years as district attorney, Harris’s office did not proactively assist in civil cases against clergy sex abuse and ignored requests by activists and survivors to access the cache of investigative files that could have helped them secure justice, according to several victims of clergy sex abuse living in California.
 

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Hard Ball Get

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I fully understand what they're trying to do here - make a political statement. What's odd to me is that they're doing it by shutting down the NBA, directly affecting the livelihoods of thousands of people who may not want to make their statement in this way, and doing nothing to address the treatment of black people at the hands of police.

Honestly, if full blown riots all over the US wasn't going to fix things, I struggle to see how shutting down the NBA would, but I guess if they feel this is the best way they can express themselves, then all power to them
You'd be surprised I reckon. Sport has a certain weight and would make a huge difference. I mean as an example, they weren't taking covid all that seriously until the NBA postponed the season... to a degree same for here and the AFL.

I get your sentiment in terms of livelihood, but ultimately their ability to work is dependent on the players and they benefit from them when things are good, so it is reasonable to expect the opposite.

I guess there is also ththe element of feeling like they can do more in the community than in the bubble... without Covid, playing might be more powerful with what thethey could also do in various communities.

I'd fully support that decision but it would be a HUGE call, especially for the Lakers given Lebron's age.
 

Mattdougie

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I’ve already admitted that I don’t know the rules and I don’t really have a stake in this either way.

However, Kamala Harris is clearly a Black woman and has every right to identify and such. Perhaps she has been discriminated against where you haven’t...I don’t know. If you appeared more indigenous perhaps you’d have suffered more issues, and maybe that’s the point.

She’s also from a very wealthy family by the looks of it so she’s probably had some advantages over the years.

I’d say socio-economic standing is more of a barrier these days than race.

It’s disappointing that her race is raised as a positive or a negative when it really shouldn’t have any influence on anyone either way.
She may be a person of colour but she is not African American which the Dems have tried to promote her as.

No one has ever said she isn’t a woman of colour.

When her party is using that as a positive for her they can’t expect it not to be pointed out it’s not true
 

Arkangel

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She may be a person of colour but she is not African American which the Dems have tried to promote her as.

No one has ever said she isn’t a woman of colour.

When her party is using that as a positive for her they can’t expect it not to be pointed out it’s not true
Why do you think she is not African American? The U.S census bureau defines that group as “black people born in the United States” (and they define “black” as “of African descent”, and specifically include people of African descent from the Carribean). Harris was born in the United States, to a father of African descent from the Carribean. That seems pretty clear cut to me.
 

wayniac

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Why do you think she is not African American? The U.S census bureau defines that group as “black people born in the United States” (and they define “black” as “of African descent”, and specifically include people of African descent from the Carribean). Harris was born in the United States, to a father of African descent from the Carribean. That seems pretty clear cut to me.
That's a total distortion. The census allows self reporting of ethnicity. Many people of Jamaican descent do not report as African American. Similarly, Indian descent people are hardly likely to report as African American if they have an Indian parent and some tenuous connection to African. She is identifying to get votes. Once the USA has more Indian descent people, she will probably tick the Indian box.
 

Arkangel

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That's a total distortion. The census allows self reporting of ethnicity. Many people of Jamaican descent do not report as African American. Similarly, Indian descent people are hardly likely to report as African American if they have an Indian parent and some tenuous connection to African. She is identifying to get votes. Once the USA has more Indian descent people, she will probably tick the Indian box.
I agree with you regarding your last two sentences: Identification with a particular group is always a political act of sorts, and anyone competing for a position of power at that level will do just about anything they think will help them win. However, your initial points don't make a lot of sense to me in the context of the question at hand. The fact that self-reporting of race (apparently they consider it a separate concept from ethnicity; go figure!) is allowed on the census seems like a non-sequitur when considering how the census bureau defines the category of African-American, as does the fact that many people from Jamaica don't identify as belonging to that category (since many of them do as well). For mine, the census bureau's definition is a good one in this context because it was developed years ago and without reference to the political point-scoring inherent in the current U.S. electoral climate. If there's an alternative definition that comes from a similarly consensual and official source by which Harris wouldn't be considered African-American, what is it and where does it come from?

With regard to your comment about people of Indian descent reporting as African-American if they have "some tenuous connection to African", I agree with you, but don't think Harris fits this definition. As I understand, her father is a black Jamaican descendant of slaves (and also possibly white slave-owners; I guess it was difficult for slaves to say no, right?). This seems no less a tenuous connection to African heritage than that of a large number of other African-American descendants of slaves.

(My disclaimer here is that I'm not an expert on any of this; I was just reading the thread while being bored on a Friday evening and became confused by the argument, so started looking things up.)
 

Mattdougie

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Why do you think she is not African American? The U.S census bureau defines that group as “black people born in the United States” (and they define “black” as “of African descent”, and specifically include people of African descent from the Carribean). Harris was born in the United States, to a father of African descent from the Carribean. That seems pretty clear cut to me.
Because she isn’t African American

it ridiculous how far people go back in their heritage to define themselves for advantageous purposes.

I do not classified myself as European Australian even though my father is English. Why? Because I’m not European and it doesn’t help me push an agenda I don’t even really belong too. Why have I never heard the term African Australian or African European ??? Hmmmmmmm

mans in the end I believe it’s been proven we alL descend from African originally.
 

Arkangel

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Because she isn’t African American

it ridiculous how far people go back in their heritage to define themselves for advantageous purposes.

I do not classified myself as European Australian even though my father is English. Why? Because I’m not European and it doesn’t help me push an agenda I don’t even really belong too. Why have I never heard the term African Australian or African European ??? Hmmmmmmm

mans in the end I believe it’s been proven we alL descend from African originally.
Fair enough. I'm suspicious of concepts of identity in general, let alone those based on genetic or geographic origin, so I'm with you there. But people do seem to find them useful for whatever reason, so if she, or anyone else, wants to define themselves as belonging to a particular group, I figure that's their call to make. I'll do my best not to let it affect how I think about or interact with them in any way.
 

Mattdougie

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Fair enough. I'm suspicious of concepts of identity in general, let alone those based on genetic or geographic origin, so I'm with you there. But people do seem to find them useful for whatever reason, so if she, or anyone else, wants to define themselves as belonging to a particular group, I figure that's their call to make. I'll do my best not to let it affect how I think about or interact with them in any way.
my only issue with it is used in identity politics and the uneven reporting of it.

Harris is without question a person of colour but they are using the African moniker to help look inclusive in the current wave of BLM crap the Dems are riding.

if Trump had elected her vice pres and labelled her African American you know the other side would be all over it.

In the end it’s pathetic in the current world that colour is even a topic
 

Bazzas Lovechild

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I’ve already admitted that I don’t know the rules and I don’t really have a stake in this either way.

However, Kamala Harris is clearly a Black woman and has every right to identify and such. Perhaps she has been discriminated against where you haven’t...I don’t know. If you appeared more indigenous perhaps you’d have suffered more issues, and maybe that’s the point.

She’s also from a very wealthy family by the looks of it so she’s probably had some advantages over the years.

I’d say socio-economic standing is more of a barrier these days than race.

It’s disappointing that her race is raised as a positive or a negative when it really shouldn’t have any influence on anyone either way.
I’d say socio-economic standing is more of a barrier these days than race.

....Bingo

Obviously there is cross over between race and class but discrimination is still driven largely by wealth and class now. Its better than its ever been in human history but we are still a long way off a harmonious society.

The big question is...how to fix it? (PS I don’t know and I haven’t heard any good answers either).
 

Mantis Toboggan

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Is anybody else inundated with adverts about how Hugh Jackman and Chris Hemsworth have the secrets to make any Aussie rich?

Does anybody actually click on this s**t?!

We know they got rich through starring in Hollywood blockbusters. I’m not sure that’s going to be an option for me.
 

LittleG

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Snarls Barkley

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Undefeated in 2020, remains undefeated.... in 2016, he almost got defaulted. Today he got defaulted at the US Open.
Thoughts? Seemed a fair enough decision. Only similar thing a can remember is Nalbandian for kicking the linesman/advertising stand
 

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