Oppo Camp Non Eagles Discussion thread - 2017 edition (continued in Part 2)

[Truckosaurus]

Way too cerebral for this lot mate [emoji4]

Should have gone for the Simpsons version, you think?

 

[Matera92]

Venables is Shuey 2.0 with improved overhead marking.

Yes plz, where do I sign?

 

[dajesmac]

SPP is playing just like I thought he would, it should be no surprise to our recruiters

I'm disappointed we didn't draft him but equally as excited at what Venables will bring once he gets up to speed

Nah, I don't think it was ever a given SPP was going to be a gun from round one, particularly with his disposal concerns. Appreciating his potential is one thing but from our recruiter's perspective there was always a risk with him. It's probably why it seemed like clubs were either hot or cold on him going into the draft.

I like Venables too, but it would be nice to have someone like Sam who can come in an add something to us right away. God knows we could use a quality young mid. Hopefully Venables emulates Heeney and this decision won't haunt us for the next decade.

 

[TheFVK]

You're welcome for today

Also seeing as you guys appear to be rivalling us for SPP love, enjoy this 2 gamer's don't argue and follow-up love tap on Lachie Neale ( credit to Jimmy Unchained)..

 

[Jootube]

Haha his predicted ceiling? Did you watch the game today? Guy is a gun already.

Sure thing Mrs Powell-Pepper. Your son is already an AA lock.

 

[Godfather32]

Sure thing Mrs Powell-Pepper. Your son is already an AA lock.

So did you watch todays game?

 

[Jootube]

So did you watch todays game?

Yes, SPP looked fantastic as a second game player. With a huge sample size of 2 games, I'm still backing that there will be a better player in the 17 draft selections before him.

 

[Godfather32]

Yes, SPP looked fantastic as a second game player. With a huge sample size of 2 games, I'm still backing that there will be a better player in the 17 draft selections before him.

Yeh, fair chance he ends up a top 5 player from this draft though based on what we've seen. Which is a far cry from "his predicted ceiling is below most players taken in the first two rounds".
And he didn't just look ok for someone in their second game, he looks like someone who will influence games this season. Hell he looks better than half our midfielders already.

 

[drazah]

Hope Y'all don't mind the intrusion.

Loops well.

 

[Jootube]

Yeh, fair chance he ends up a top 5 player from this draft though based on what we've seen. Which is a far cry from "his predicted ceiling is below most players taken in the first two rounds".

Clubs have to make selections based on what they know about players. He trained with West Coast and we still found a reason not to draft him. As club outsiders we can only guess at why he was passed 17 times before a club thought he was the best player on the board. This level of passion for SPP did not exist until he debuted very strongly.

Sure, we might have gotten this decision wrong, but to pretend we know the answer 2 months into their respective careers, it's enough to make a fortune teller blush.

 

[EagleShore]

I think the melts are mostly due to the fact SPP is impacting games right now whereas Venables won't be able to make an impact for a long time.

If we were an average side rebuilding it would be fine but the fact is we have 1-2 years of Mitchell, Priddis and Kennedy and then we will be rebuilding again.

I think people are clever enough to realise that Venables needs time before judging who's going to be better.

But whether or not he ends up better is irrelevant to the fact that SPP would have made us a better premiership chance in this window than DV will.

Was going to post something similar...if SPP was in our team we'd be significantly better and more bullet-proof during the year, which would improve our chances right away.

DV is longer term. The other contributory concern is that it doesn't look like Duggan is coming through as quickly or as well as we'd like. Hindsight and all that.

On GT-I9507 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Godfather32]

Clubs have to make selections based on what they know about players. He trained with West Coast and we still found a reason not to draft him. As club outsiders we can only guess at why he was passed 17 times before a club thought he was the best player on the board. This level of passion for SPP did not exist until he debuted very strongly.

Sure, we might have gotten this decision wrong, but to pretend we know the answer 2 months into their respective careers, it's enough to make a fortune teller blush.

That's incorrect, if you go back and look there were several of us who were very passionate about picking SPP, go back and look. I believe quite a few thought he was amongst the best players in the draft.
And I'm not pretending to know that we got the decision wrong, it's just my opinion that we got the pick wrong, I'm sure you have plenty of opinions about the team as well. Would love to be proven wrong because that would mean that Venables turns into a very good player.

 

[Jootube]

I believe quite a few thought he was amongst the best players in the draft.

I think this is revisionist history, Most experts phantom drafts had him going 25th or 26th. Anyone who thought he should go top 5 is clearly watching too many highlight packages.

 

[Godfather32]

I think this is revisionist history, Most experts phantom drafts had him going 25th or 26th. Anyone who thought he should go top 5 is clearly watching too many highlight packages.

And yet so far he's playing like a top 5 pick. Fairly sure there were people on this board who watch East Perth that wanted him and thought he'd be one of the top players in the draft. "Experts" picked Mitch Brown to play in last years EF. "Experts" thought Tom Lamb would be a better player than Mitch McGovern. They're not infallible, especially the ones who've been drafting for us recently.

 

[mick06]

...and significant off-field issues in Perth. Obviously he is on track to be an elite player, but the past has come home to roost at WCE whether we like it or not.

His issues - which werent exactly significant were prior to getting to east perth. His life coulda gone in another direction but once at the footy club he has been nothing but a ripper kid with a heart bigger than pharlap who shows 100% commitment to football.
I dont care how good venables becomes, i still wanted SPP and dumbfounded we didnt take him to complement our butter midfield.

 

[the harry]

He was very much under our noses, having trained with us and everything. There was just a sense of destiny about it all, from the position of our pick to the fact that his traits screamed out as what we needed the most. He played for East Perth too. It just made sense.

I was a big advocate for SPP pre-draft so I'm not trying to come across as a hindsight hero.

I also like Venables and think he'll be a good player. Will he be as good as SPP? We'll see.

All that intel on him and we passed? Huh, makes you think hey?

 

[Godfather32]

I think this is revisionist history, Most experts phantom drafts had him going 25th or 26th. Anyone who thought he should go top 5 is clearly watching too many highlight packages.

And in fact here's a quote from the discussion on SPP from before the draft, you can read for yourself and see who thought he'd be any good.

True if we end up with a great player anyway then it won't matter. But I just have a feeling that he's going to end up being one of the best players out of this draft and if we go a "safe" option with our first we'll regret it.
Agree with you on the draft, don't like the wait after the trade period.

 

[avishka5]

Spp has already surpassed my expectations. Not only was kicking a knock but also production and ability to convert into an AFL midfielder was also questioned. In his last two games he has surpassed 20 plus disposals and has looked at home in the midfield. From what i saw of him today, he is gonna be one of the best clearance mids in years to come. Like spacey mentioned before he is the perfect draftee for any club that's looking to either surge up the ladder or one that wants to remain a top 4 threat. Port already had a lot of talent in the midfield and was one good mid short and a player like spp would have helped them a bit.
Him and wines will leave a few opponents in a world of pain in the coming years.

 

[Jootube]

And yet so far he's playing like a top 5 pick. Fairly sure there were people on this board who watch East Perth that wanted him and thought he'd be one of the top players in the draft. "Experts" picked Mitch Brown to play in last years EF. "Experts" thought Tom Lamb would be a better player than Mitch McGovern. They're not infallible, especially the ones who've been drafting for us recently.

Seems strange that such an obviously good player was passed by Port Adelaide at pick 16 too. I guess I should start looking for a Marshall for Coleman and SPP for Brownlow multi...

Insane that all these armchair experts think are better drafters than every AFL club, relying on ONLY YouTube videos and rumor threads.

 

[the harry]

And yet so far he's playing like a top 5 pick. Fairly sure there were people on this board who watch East Perth that wanted him and thought he'd be one of the top players in the draft. "Experts" picked Mitch Brown to play in last years EF. "Experts" thought Tom Lamb would be a better player than Mitch McGovern. They're not infallible, especially the ones who've been drafting for us recently.

Then aren't they more likely to be correct in this instance and revert to the mean maintaining the long term strike rate?

 

[Godfather32]

Seems strange that such an obviously good player was passed by Port Adelaide at pick 16 too. I guess I should start looking for a Marshall for Coleman and SPP for Brownlow multi...

Seems insane that all these armchair experts are better drafters than every AFL club, relying on ONLY YouTube videos and rumor threads.

I didn't say any of that, what I did say was that there were people on this board who thought SPP would be one of the top players in the draft. I've even linked you to the discussion.

 

[the harry]

Spp has already surpassed my expectations. Not only was kicking a knock but also production and ability to convert into an AFL midfielder was also questioned. In his last two games he has surpassed 20 plus disposals and has looked at home in the midfield. From what i saw of him today, he is gonna be one of the best clearance mids in years to come. Like spacey mentioned before he is the perfect draftee for any club that's looking to either surge up the ladder or one that wants to remain a top 4 threat. Port already had a lot of talent in the midfield and was one good mid short and a player like spp would have helped them a bit.
Him and wines will leave a few opponents in a world of pain in the coming years.

How do you reconcile:

Freo are incredibly shit and with challenge for bottom 4
SPP is already a gun and his performance against Freo just prove it (note: Ports mids did okay, 30 possessions and 6 goals by one I hear?)

 

[Jootube]

I didn't say any of that, what I did say was that there were people on this board who thought SPP would be one of the top players in the draft. I've even linked you to the discussion.

Are you just wanting people to say you were right? SPP does look fantastic, but I'm sticking with the expert consensus until about 2019.

 

[kane249]

Haha his predicted ceiling? Did you watch the game today? Guy is a gun already.

You really need to calm your farm about SPP.

When Daniel Rich had his first year everyone thought wow how could he be in a few years time? Maybe the reports that he was AFL ready with a mature body and has a limited ceiling are wrong and he can become even better! Maybe we should have taken him over Naitanui after all...

The scouts got proven right, Rich's improvement from his first year hasn't been much and he never did go past his predicted ceiling.

Similarily people were moaning about Masten over Palmer and how we screwed that up as well. Masten is no world beater by any stretch, but the fact he's still had the far better career to Palmer (who can't crack the Cartlon best 22 I might add) speak volumes.

Some players peak earlier than others, SPP has looked good in his 2 games so far but to throw the toys out of the cot like a lot on here have is a massive over reaction. History shows you can't judge a player by his first year only.

 

[Jootube]

But I just have a feeling that he's going to end up being one of the best players out of this draft

So your expert SPP analysis was based on a "feeling". Sounds more like a bowel movement to me.