Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread XII

[Whispering_Jack]

fans can like it or dislike it all they like..

its not about them.

if it affects results, and disallows the best two teams from facing off at the end - its flawed.

if both prelim week offers lose this week. its a trend, not an anomaly

Two seasons won't quite make a trend but I take your point that it could be an issue. Time will tell.

 

[Mercurial89]

fans can like it or dislike it all they like..

its not about them.

if it affects results, and disallows the best two teams from facing off at the end - its flawed.

if both prelim week offers lose this week. its a trend, not an anomaly

Not sure I get this logic,
We have a top 8, its been widely accepted for awhile now that you have to be top 4 to win it, so pretty much the bottom half of the 8 is not needed. Up until last year when the doggies did it from 7th.

We blame the week off for hurting the "top teams", well if they are the best the week off shouldn't bother them. If we truly want only the two best sides on the G in the final game of the year, have the Grand final played between 1 and 2 on the ladder and be done with it.

The week off allows all teams inside the 8 the ability to get their absolute best and fittest side on the park. It avoids the case of 8th limping into finals with half a banged up side and getting beaten the first week (it still happens but its more about the depth in talent and where the list is not how many players can walk). Sydney beating us for example, we lost because we aren't good enough, not because of us missing Hurley, Raz and Hooker and Jobe limping to the line.

Gets rid of the farce of resting players in the week before finals too so limits damage on the integrity of that final round.
Also helps with Supercoach Grand finals in this regard
Superstars and the best players are all fresh

All positives.
The only negatives I see that people throw up are

1. It ruins momentum - well maybe, but do the week right and its a nice build up, put the awards on, put the Womens orgin, do actual proper media analysis of all the finalists. fills the week easily.
2. It hurts the best teams, they don't make the big dance, gives the bottom 8 a chance- Umm what? if they aren't there they aren't the best team. you make it if you are good enough, you don't miss out because you had a weeks rest. If you want the absolute best most pure 1 vs 2 then why have the whole finals series? 23 weeks of form is enough just play top 2 on the ladder.

 

[Runk]

AFL trade radio interview currently with Jake Stringer. Interesting. Jake has admitted to being a lazy arse all year.
Never been late to training just feels he could've done more. That being said, clearly there's a real divide between him and the coaches.

 

[DapperDon]

AFL trade radio interview currently with Jake Stringer. Interesting. Jake has admitted to being a lazy arse all year.
Never been late to training just feels he could've done more. That being said, clearly there's a real divide between him and the coaches.

If he didn't enjoy the environment and those he had to answer to it's understandable his enthusiasm would be low. A fresh start could be exactly what he needs

 

[Howard Moon]

Conners being weird... my antennae are twitching

he called Essendon a great club - skys are bright...

pointed out stringer played for bendigo...

 

[JayJ20]

fans can like it or dislike it all they like..

its not about them.

if it affects results, and disallows the best two teams from facing off at the end - its flawed.

if both prelim week offers lose this week. its a trend, not an anomaly

Not really. Thing is, Geelong have struggled with Sydney for a long time. It was no surprise that Sydney won the prelim last year. Bulldogs were playing the better football in September and got a hold of GWS.

By the same token, Adelaide have struggled against Geelong for a long time now. It won't be a surprise if they lose this one. If Richmond lose, that wouldn't be to do with the bye either. GWS still do have a quality side.

 

[DERO]

Enter Hayden Skipworth, father figure.

 

[Mercurial89]

Conners being weird... my antennae are twitching

he called Essendon a great club - skys are bright...

pointed out stringer played for bendigo...

Connors has actually been quite complimentary in regards to us in the media of late. Highlighted when talking about loyalty in footy that it was evident with the Essendon guys.*

The thing about Connors is he focuses on getting players flags, that is his stated number 1 goal.


Edit* I should note it was loyalty to each other he highlighted, but there has been a lot of instances when in the past he would stick a boot into the club with a sound bite, that appears to have stopped from what ive heard.

 

[Howard Moon]

Not really. Thing is, Geelong have struggled with Sydney for a long time. It was no surprise that Sydney won the prelim last year. Bulldogs were playing the better football in September and got a hold of GWS.

By the same token, Adelaide have struggled against Geelong for a long time now. It won't be a surprise if they lose this one. If Richmond lose, that wouldn't be to do with the bye either. GWS still do have a quality side.

hearing lots of excuses to excuse the bye.. all im saying is that would be 4 different sets of excuses over two years - but the bye gets off scott free... that's a lot of miraculous coincidences on the same days both years

 

[GUMBLETRON]

Not sure I get this logic.

It's simple.

The week off is meant to be a reward for finishing top four and winning your QF. If that week off instead poses an additional challenge because of the pre-finals bye, the system is broken.

 

[Runk]

Jake has had a coffee with Jackets. Jackets paid for it. Smooth.

 

[DapperJong]

Jake has had a coffee with Jackets. Jackets paid for it. Smooth.

ugh no way that's desperate

 

[Runk]

ugh no way that's desperate

Should've gone dutch?

 

[Mercurial89]

It's simple.

The week off is meant to be a reward for finishing top four and winning your QF. If that week off instead poses an additional challenge because of the pre-finals bye, the system is broken.

I get the argument, I just don't understand why you are unhappy that 8 teams have a chance to win instead of the 4 it was whittled down to before?

The competition for a long time was war of attrition, I get that, I understand the connection and fascination people have with the last man standing attitude, the week off that only the top 4 had access to was a massive bonus and was seen as deserved.

Then we started getting "rested" players, as teams tried to better play this war of attrition to get a chance, because if you can catch teams on off days physically you are in with a shot, even if they have a better team.

With this week off we have 8 teams, the 8 best performed teams over 23 weeks, with some of the best players in the competition in the best condition they can be in.
The deciding factor in games should now be talent and coaching. The two things that we should be celebrating of the best teams.Not, oh we had the week off and picked off a physically wounded opponent to make it to the Grand final.

This is my argument for what the bye provides, the best pure footy spectacle possible with the teams you have.

The argument back the other way is but if Richmond lose it was the bye.

Really?

 

[DapperJong]

Should've gone dutch?

You have to come across as such a good guy that Stringer wants to pay for the coffee

 

[Runk]

You have to come across as such a good guy that Stringer wants to pay for the coffee

Clearly going to Geelong then

 

[Howard Moon]

I get the argument, I just don't understand why you are unhappy that 8 teams have a chance to win instead of the 4 it was whittled down to before?

The competition for a long time was war of attrition, I get that, I understand the connection and fascination people have with the last man standing attitude, the week off that only the top 4 had access to was a massive bonus and was seen as deserved.

Then we started getting "rested" players, as teams tried to better play this war of attrition to get a chance, because if you can catch teams on off days physically you are in with a shot, even if they have a better team.

With this week off we have 8 teams, the 8 best performed teams over 23 weeks, with some of the best players in the competition in the best condition they can be in.
The deciding factor in games should now be talent and coaching. The two things that we should be celebrating of the best teams.Not, oh we had the week off and picked off a physically wounded opponent to make it to the Grand final.

This is my argument for what the bye provides, the best pure footy spectacle possible with the teams you have.

The argument back the other way is but if Richmond lose it was the bye.

Really?

and why cant list size be another product of the best team?

we have a better list of players that could perform over 22 weeks and finals without a rest..

the extra bye is evening for the sake of evening, let natural selection decide the winner of the flag.

 

[84859300]

 

[HirdyLannister]

fans can like it or dislike it all they like..

its not about them.

if it affects results, and disallows the best two teams from facing off at the end - its flawed.

if both prelim week offers lose this week. its a trend, not an anomaly

Very long bow you've drawn after 1 full season of having the bye. Let's see how this weekend pans out

 

[GUMBLETRON]

The deciding factor in games should now be talent and coaching. The two things that we should be celebrating of the best teams.Not, oh we had the week off and picked off a physically wounded opponent to make it to the Grand final.

Not, oh we maintained our momentum while our opponents only played one game in three weeks either though.

This is my argument for what the bye provides, the best pure footy spectacle possible with the teams you have.

That's fine, and I broadly agree. But, if it makes the week off a disadvantage it introduces a disincentive to win that first game, perverting the broader imperatives of the sport.

You can have one without the other. A week off for everyone then straight knock-out finals, 1v8, 2v7, etc.

Or it might turn out Adelaide and Richmond have figured out how to turn the extra rest to their advantage.

 

[Howard Moon]

yep - all my comments are, and were always pending this weeks results

 

[Blind Turn]

The final round bye seems to be a good innovation. The top 4 still have 2 distinct advantages with the double chance and home finals plus getting players freshened up. The only disadvantage is a loss of momentum but I believe that clubs will adapt to this as it becomes more ingrained. Positives outweigh negatives imo.

 

[vast]

Its like people forget that the top 4 gets a double chance. Is that not advantage enough?

Weve had 1 finals series to judge this on hardly a big enough sample size to even guess what the effects might be. But if I had to guess, more times than not the better peformed team of the season will end up winning the prelims over the next 5 years.

 

[sameolds33]

It's simple.

The week off is meant to be a reward for finishing top four and winning your QF. If that week off instead poses an additional challenge because of the pre-finals bye, the system is broken.

It'd be interesting if the team winning the QF could elect whether to take the week off or play. If it elects to play the losing team gets the week off...bet the QF winning team takes the week off every time.

 

[Lore]

I, um.. wot?