Play Nice North Melbourne - 2018 and beyond

[Snake_Baker]

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

We can and we are.

 

[Great8]

We can and we are.

We will see how much longer for. The Tassie government will soon tire of forking out money to clubs who offer nothing to the state.

 

[magpienato]

The solution to what?

Is being financially secure with 40,000 members not preferable to relying on AFL handouts with 20,000 members?

Solution to being boxed in. The reason players are avoiding North isn't that they aren't paying (they were offering Dusty a King's ransom), it's because there is no interest because they could play at a club with a better list, facilities and culture just down the road at clubs like Essendon, Western Bulldogs or Melbourne. And about the membership, let's go worst case scenario as say if North relocated they would lose half their members. That makes 20,000. Now let's be REALLY pessimistic and say a mere 5% of Tasmania's population become members, that 25k ~ 30k from that, growing the membership and building and solidifying a fanbase from Hawthorn. 50k members + AFL subsidies + new facilities + potential new stadium. Sounds like a good deal for you guys.

 

[SBYM]

Ah 'these threads'

It's good to be back...

It's not even ******* November yet.

Jesus H...

 

[Martyn_30_]

Home crowd numbers always drop during a poor period and the Saints and dogs experienced just as bad crowd numbers against interstate teams this year.

Actually the Bulldogs worst home crowd in Melbourne this year was 28,000 which happened to be against North, lower than games against Sydney, Brisbane, West Coast and GWS.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Malifice]

I'm not really sure if the purpose of this thread?

North are without doubt, unquestionably in their best financial position ever.

No debt, 40k members 4 years running, long term contracts for extra income from tassie, a woman's team that gets us 250k per annum, a soon to be better stadium deal, and as I recall an u usually high number of junior members, and finally another redeployment of Arden st which will soon see vfl and aflw being played there.

So given the above the only rational explanation is that finishing 4th last in 2017 must be why we can discuss north relocating?

Conventional wisdom is your list is ordinary, you're engaging in a rebuild, and this will take some time. Very few (as in no) players wanted to come to North this year (Dusty nearly got over the line) despite some insane big money 10 year deals being thrown around.

A glance at your own board shows there are issues around your coach (and board) and there is a broad consensus your list is in pretty poor shape (Brown being the notable exception). Senior players are being shown the door, and there isnt enough talent coming back in the other side.

You've got 4 and 23 this year (and no third rounder) loading up with an extra third next year (for points for a F/S).

Obviously there is a double standard involved.

There are no double standards. If you want to conduct a straw poll for: 'Who is the first cab off the rank for the AFL to strong-arm into relocation' the answer will (currently) be North. The AFL have literally tried to do this before (and recently). You guys had to mobilize to incorporate a 'not to relocate unless we get 70 percent support' into the clubs constitution.

Talking about Norths future without some kind of reference to the AFL pushing for relocation if everything goes pear shaped is kind of ignoring the elephant in the room.

I dont think its a huge issue. Your position off field isnt too bad. Posters only troll you guys on it because its so raw, and it's only raw becuase it keeps rearing its head from time to time.

Just point out how relocation 'wont happen because reasons X' instead of rising to the bait.

On field i pose this question in relation to your club. How is your rebuild going? As we saw yet another bottom 4 finish in 2017, would a 2018 bottom 4 finish see you forced to relocate?

I think our (Carltons) rebuild is going to plan. We're 2 years in now, and have managed to assemble a pretty good list of players 23 and younger (Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, Curnow, SPS, Marchbank, Plowman, Pickett, Kennedy, McKay) plus we got in an extra 1st round pick and 2nd round pick this year (picks 3, 10 and 30) when we started with picks 3, 40, and 58.

We also have an extra 2nd rounder next year.

We're certainly better placed this year and next year to get in young talent than North are, and already have a large bunch of quality kids on the list to begin with.

We made a point of getting in a new coach in Bolton to guide the team through this, and have been trading out players (Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Touhy, Menzel, Bell) for high draft picks to speed the process up, while managing to pry loose some good depth players from GWS to suppliment the rebuild (Marchbank, Plowman, Pickett, Kennedy).

Off field its not looking too bad, barring the Trigg fiasco and losing our major sponsor midway through the season. Financially we need to improve, but I see that coming when the on field results start to happen in the next few years following the finish of our rebuild.

We've been through much darker times than this without the spectre of relocation being raised. We nearly had to hand the keys back in circa 2003 when the fines, draft sanctions and Princes Park white elephant nearly sunk us.

Stupid thread that is only here to prompt relocation talk.

Leaving aside relocation, youve pushed a lot of older players out the door recently with no return, and havent brought much in the way of young talent back in the door. Much of the money this freed up was used to throw massive deals at Kelly and Martin, but neither of those deals eventuated. Notwithstanding this, you failed to improve your draft position this year or improve your depth with young players.

Whats the plan for North going forwards, without reference to relocation?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Actually the Bulldogs worst home crowd in Melbourne this year was 28,000 which happened to be against North, lower than games against Sydney, Brisbane, West Coast and GWS.



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I was thinking of 2015, my bad.

 

[Mixed Results]

Solution to being boxed in. The reason players are avoiding North isn't that they aren't paying (they were offering Dusty a King's ransom), it's because there is no interest because they could play at a club with a better list, facilities and culture just down the road at clubs like Essendon, Western Bulldogs or Melbourne. And about the membership, let's go worst case scenario as say if North relocated they would lose half their members. That makes 20,000. Now let's be REALLY pessimistic and say a mere 5% of Tasmania's population become members, that 25k ~ 30k from that, growing the membership and building and solidifying a fanbase from Hawthorn. 50k members + AFL subsidies + new facilities + potential new stadium. Sounds like a good deal for you guys.

Even though your comments about us attracting players are off-base (Marley Williams certainly seems to prefer the culture at Arden Street), I'll entertain it and provide the following counterpoint: Any potential attractiveness gained by new members, facilities, finances and culture, would be offset by the fact that we would be based in Tasmania. With the struggle that clubs in QLD and NSW have retaining/attracting players, you could only imagine how dificult it would be to attract a marquee player to Tasmania.

Hobart and Launceston have a combined population of 300,000 with absolutely zero growth expected over the next 50 years. When our current Melbourne-based members drop off, as would invevitably happen in your scenario, we'd be relying on converting almost 20% of the population into paying members. As clubs eventually reach membership figures of 100,000 and beyond, a team in Tasmania wouldn't be financially competitive without AFL support.

 

[HumanMeatball]

If we had made your three suggested trades then we would be left with Sam Wright, Scott Thompson and Jarrad Waite as our only players over 26. All of whom are likely to retire after 2018.

You didn’t have to trade them all. 1 or 2 would have been plenty

 

[Snake_Baker]

We will see how much longer for. The Tassie government will soon tire of forking out money to clubs who offer nothing to the state.

We were in North Melbourne when you were in Ascot Vale
We were in North Melbourne when you were in East Melbourne
We were in North Melbourne when you were in Glenbervie
We were in North Melbourne when you were in Tullamarine
We'll still be in North Melbourne we you go to Bacchus Marsh!

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Conventional wisdom is your list is ordinary, you're engaging in a rebuild, and this will take some time. Very few (as in no) players wanted to come to North this year (Dusty nearly got over the line) despite some insane big money 10 year deals being thrown around.

A glance at your own board shows there are issues around your coach (and board) and there is a broad consensus your list is in pretty poor shape (Brown being the notable exception). Senior players are being shown the door, and there isnt enough talent coming back in the other side.

You've got 4 and 23 this year (and no third rounder) loading up with an extra third next year (for points for a F/S).



There are no double standards. If you want to conduct a straw poll for: 'Who is the first cab off the rank for the AFL to strong-arm into relocation' the answer will (currently) be North. The AFL have literally tried to do this before (and recently). You guys had to mobilize to incorporate a 'not to relocate unless we get 70 percent support' into the clubs constitution.

Talking about Norths future without some kind of reference to the AFL pushing for relocation if everything goes pear shaped is kind of ignoring the elephant in the room.

I dont think its a huge issue. Your position off field isnt too bad. Posters only troll you guys on it because its so raw, and it's only raw becuase it keeps rearing its head from time to time.

Just point out how relocation 'wont happen because reasons X' instead of rising to the bait.



I think our (Carltons) rebuild is going to plan. We're 2 years in now, and have managed to assemble a pretty good list of players 23 and younger (Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, Curnow, SPS, Marchbank, Plowman, Pickett, Kennedy, McKay) plus we got in an extra 1st round pick and 2nd round pick this year (picks 3, 10 and 30) when we started with picks 3, 40, and 58.

We also have an extra 2nd rounder next year.

We're certainly better placed this year and next year to get in young talent than North are, and already have a large bunch of quality kids on the list to begin with.

We made a point of getting in a new coach in Bolton to guide the team through this, and have been trading out players (Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Touhy, Menzel, Bell) for high draft picks to speed the process up, while managing to pry loose some good depth players from GWS to suppliment the rebuild (Marchbank, Plowman, Pickett, Kennedy).

Off field its not looking too bad, barring the Trigg fiasco and losing our major sponsor midway through the season. Financially we need to improve, but I see that coming when the on field results start to happen in the next few years following the finish of our rebuild.

We've been through much darker times than this without the spectre of relocation being raised. We nearly had to hand the keys back in circa 2003 when the fines, draft sanctions and Princes Park white elephant nearly sunk us.



Leaving aside relocation, youve pushed a lot of older players out the door recently with no return, and havent brought much in the way of young talent back in the door. Much of the money this freed up was used to throw massive deals at Kelly and Martin, but neither of those deals eventuated. Notwithstanding this, you failed to improve your draft position this year or improve your depth with young players.

Whats the plan for North going forwards, without reference to relocation?

Consensus that the list is in bad shape? If this consensus is from opposition posters, most wouldn't know half of North's list without looking to google. Consensus from the media? Come on, we both know how lazy they are. Definitely not the consensus from north posters. Midfield class and pace is cited as the only primary issue by most posters that actually bother to watch north games week in, week out. Senior players shown the door during a rebuild, shocker. Not enough young talent coming in is a matter of perspective as well as time to vindicate north's drafting.

Contrary to popular belief, north has actually drafted a lot and developed them at VFL level, rather than expose them Melbourne style. We had 11 new kids and to say the likes of Pruess, Simpkin and Clarke haven't shown anything is laughable.

Stick to development, get some media exposure to show off the existing talent next year and pick up FA's as well as father son and academy prospects. Guys like Tarryn Thomas, maybe Blakey and an early draft pick alongside FA's and natural development can see north rise with Carlton. North knows 2017 is a weak draft and will give FA another hard crack next year.

 

[Great8]

We were in North Melbourne when you were in Ascot Vale
We were in North Melbourne when you were in East Melbourne
We were in North Melbourne when you were in Glenbervie
We were in North Melbourne when you were in Tullamarine
We'll still be in North Melbourne we you go to Bacchus Marsh!

We had to move to Tulla to get better facilities. And if we have to move again to get better facilities so be it. Would rather that than be stubborn and have worse facilities than what country football sides do

 

[demondavey]

The only solution: Relocate to Tasmania.

It is inevitable and North Melbourne only stand to gain.

I honestly don't know how this will help? Do they have an established group of supporters down in Tasmania? Can they effectively relocate without compromising their current supporter base?

What are the commercial arguments for North only gaining from this move?

 

[wazza03]

We had to move to Tulla to get better facilities. And if we have to move again to get better facilities so be it. Would rather that than be stubborn and have worse facilities than what country football sides do

Worst facilities than a country club, have you been living under a rock?
Our facilities are better than most given our redevelopment and once the future development is finished will be one of the best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[the big lebowski]

Conventional wisdom is your list is ordinary, you're engaging in a rebuild, and this will take some time. Very few (as in no) players wanted to come to North this year (Dusty nearly got over the line) despite some insane big money 10 year deals being thrown around.

A glance at your own board shows there are issues around your coach (and board) and there is a broad consensus your list is in pretty poor shape (Brown being the notable exception). Senior players are being shown the door, and there isnt enough talent coming back in the other side.

You've got 4 and 23 this year (and no third rounder) loading up with an extra third next year (for points for a F/S).

We started the year by letting go of Petrie, Boomer, Wells, NDS and Spud. Four club champions and a handy free agent.

We finished above Carlton, beating the grand finalists by 10 goals and losing 5 other games by under a kick.

At the start of the year i was on record as saying we needed a bottom 4 finish to start actually rebuilding. it seemed we fluked that by losing those close games and having a horrible injury run.

Throughout the year we identified 2 players to go all our for. Josh Kelly and Dustin Martin. Both were close, both were chased by other teams.

Did carlton not want Kelly? i thought you were the front runners? i guess only as long as it suits the narrative. Same with the brown low medalist. it was actually only north that chased him. no one else wanted martin.

are no double standards. If you want to conduct a straw poll for: 'Who is the first cab off the rank for the AFL to strong-arm into relocation' the answer will (currently) be North. The AFL have literally tried to do this before (and recently). You guys had to mobilize to incorporate a 'not to relocate unless we get 70 percent support' into the clubs constitution.

Talking about Norths future without some kind of reference to the AFL pushing for relocation if everything goes pear shaped is kind of ignoring the elephant in the room.

I dont think its a huge issue. Your position off field isnt too bad. Posters only troll you guys on it because its so raw, and it's only raw becuase it keeps rearing its head from time to time.

Just point out how relocation 'wont happen because reasons X' instead of rising to the bait.

I think we have seen this same thread about 8 times already in 2017.

Im well aware of norths recent history. but i don't think i need the ignorant bigfooty people offering their advice with comments like "the only solution is to move norf to tassie" when there is no problem to solve.

yes, north could finish dead last for the next 10 years and have fans become disillusioned leaving us vulnerable to relocation. as could the demons, saints, dogs.

carlton could stuff up this rebuild, and commence their fourth major rebuild since your last grand final appearance, finishing last for the next 15 years and losing support and be vulnerable to relocation.

Is that what this thread is about, speculating on the exact conditions needed for north to be vulnerable to relocation?

As i said, its a stupid thread where a perceived poor season (our first since 2009) is trolled as an imminent sign of relocation.

you should shut it down otherwise you are feeding the trolls.

their is a football industry thread where people can feel free to speculate on the death of teams if it makes their miserable existence better. or better yet bay 13.

think our (Carltons) rebuild is going to plan. We're 2 years in now, and have managed to assemble a pretty good list of players 23 and younger (Cripps, Docherty, Weitering, Curnow, SPS, Marchbank, Plowman, Pickett, Kennedy, McKay) plus we got in an extra 1st round pick and 2nd round pick this year (picks 3, 10 and 30) when we started with picks 3, 40, and 58.

We also have an extra 2nd rounder next year.

We're certainly better placed this year and next year to get in young talent than North are, and already have a large bunch of quality kids on the list to begin with.

We made a point of getting in a new coach in Bolton to guide the team through this, and have been trading out players (Gibbs, Yarran, Henderson, Touhy, Menzel, Bell) for high draft picks to speed the process up, while managing to pry loose some good depth players from GWS to suppliment the rebuild (Marchbank, Plowman, Pickett, Kennedy).

Off field its not looking too bad, barring the Trigg fiasco and losing our major sponsor midway through the season. Financially we need to improve, but I see that coming when the on field results start to happen in the next few years following the finish of our rebuild.

We've been through much darker times than this without the spectre of relocation being raised. We nearly had to hand the keys back in circa 2003 when the fines, draft sanctions and Princes Park white elephant nearly sunk us.



Leaving aside relocation, youve pushed a lot of older players out the door recently with no return, and havent brought much in the way of young talent back in the door. Much of the money this freed up was used to throw massive deals at Kelly and Martin, but neither of those deals eventuated. Notwithstanding this, you failed to improve your draft position this year or improve your depth with young players.

Whats the plan for North going forwards, without reference to relocation?

I would LOVE to discuss football and Norths prospects going forward.

May i suggest you knock the trolls on the head right now and rename this thread "North's list and how long will they be down" as there is no need for anybody to troll about relocation on such a topic.

Now, as previously mentioned i unlike many of my North friends on bigfooty saw this year coming and was not surprised. infact i was disappointed to see us come so close to to finishing mid table which would get us nowhere.

List management has stated we now have a three year list build focus.

We will add Cerra/Dow/Stephensen this year, Say Rankine, Thomas, Scott next year. Coupled with Simpkin last draft i think that's a great start to our rebuild considering we will be there in 1 year from now. We invested in key position players for the previous 3 drafts and already have a kpf star in brown and a very promising young ruck man in preuss.

Our midfield is deplorable, and i think guys like kelly and martin would have had a bigger impact at a team like north than at other teams given the state of our midfield.

If you believe 3 media people, all of whom claimed either st kilda or carlton were front runners for kelly this year (lol), kelly will come to north at the end of 2019, and we have lots of money to go for other mids.

i do think north have made a few mistakes in the short rebuild time thus far. Usually you try and go after players when you are on the up from a rebuild, not when you have literally just started. i think our timing was wrong on this and we should have embraced the rebuild quicker.

i also think we should have been more ruthless with trades and forced out a tar rant and goldy, paying some all of their salary.

i see north as a team that has 2 older players that we rely on at present. Higgins and Tazz. i think we have plans in place to replace tazz with Durdin, nelson and mckay. but higgins class will be something our midfield will need to replace in a few years.

 

[Malifice]

Consensus that the list is in bad shape? If this consensus is from opposition posters, most wouldn't know half of North's list without looking to google.

I dont have to go as far as google to see a lot of queries over your young talent coming through or around your drafting this year.

Your own board raises plenty of concerns.

Senior players shown the door during a rebuild, shocker.

It is a bit of a shocker. Leaving for nothing means you probably held them for too long. You really want to be using some of them as currency to help in the rebuild.

Carlton have traded out Henderson, Yarran, Bell, Touhy, Gibbs, Menzel in the past two years, netting us 5 extra 1st round picks, and 2 extra seconds. Those picks have been used to get in players like Curnow, McKay and Cuningham. We also used some of this currency to get in Marchbank (pick 6), Pickett (pick 4), Plowman (pick 3) and Kennedy (pick 13) for cheap.

We still have Murphy, Simpson, Kruezer as a senior core to play them around, and this years draft (3, 10, 30) and next years draft (extra 2nd rounder already) plus F/A etc to replace them.

Contrary to popular belief, north has actually drafted a lot and developed them at VFL level, rather than expose them Melbourne style.

I dont think the real issue with Melbourne was playing the kids too soon (although this certainly was an issue). It was they totally gutted the list of experience forcing them to play the kids too soon. Those kids had no senior players to play with and learn from, and got flogged weekly reuining the culture. This (plus a swathe of wasted early picks) trapped them in a death spiral where they had no leadership, experience or corporate knowledge, and it kind of just stagnated.

They've righted that ship recently, but it's taken a lot longer than it should have.

Carlton learnt from this by managing to hold onto a core of senior players to act as a skeleton to enable us to play the kids around. We've avoided floggings, and gotten some much needed games into the kids. They've held up pretty well.

It sounds like your argument is 'We have the talent, but you don't see them because they're in the VFL; instead we play older s**t players to protect them'. I'm not sure I really buy that argument.

Stick to development, get some media exposure to show off the existing talent next year and pick up FA's as well as father son and academy prospects. Guys like Tarryn Thomas, maybe Blakey and an early draft pick alongside FA's and natural development can see north rise with Carlton. North knows 2017 is a weak draft and will give FA another hard crack next year.

You havent even really started a rebuild yet (other than push senior players out the door). Why on earth would you be looking for free agents already? That doesnt make any sense to me.

We're like 2 years in to our rebuild, and we havent bothered with any yet (and wont start to untill next year with Lynch and the year after with Shiel and Kelly). Our focus has been establishing the backline, getting our depth right by getting in talented kids 23 y/o and under, and using our low picks for 'best available' talent.

 

[Malifice]

We started the year by letting go of Petrie, Boomer, Wells, NDS and Spud. Four club champions and a handy free agent.

For net compensation of [nothing].

We let go of just the one club champion, and got 2 x 1st rounders for him.

We finished above Carlton, beating the grand finalists by 10 goals and losing 5 other games by under a kick.

Only just, and we were playing a lot of kids this year, and without Cripps for a third of it.

At the start of the year i was on record as saying we needed a bottom 4 finish to start actually rebuilding. it seemed we fluked that by losing those close games and having a horrible injury run.

If you want to talk about losing close games, Carlton lost several games by close margins (many of which we were leading in the last quarter) and only 5 of our losses were by over five goals – and three of those coming against top-four sides.

For a young side, we'll take that.

Throughout the year we identified 2 players to go all our for. Josh Kelly and Dustin Martin. Both were close, both were chased by other teams.

But isnt that the point? You went 'all out' (with some ridiculous offers) and didnt get them.

Surely thats a mark in the negative column, and not the positive one.

Is that what this thread is about, speculating on the exact conditions needed for north to be vulnerable to relocation?

No, its about Norths prospects (on field and off) for the foreseeable future.

There is a 'Carlton in 2018' thread on the main board as well. You dont see us whinging about it.

you should shut it down otherwise you are feeding the trolls.

No; I'll shut down the trolling and not the thread. A discussion of North going forwards is fair game. Trolling relocation isnt.

You're not a protected species here. Ill whack trolls, but not fair criticism.

I would LOVE to discuss football and Norths prospects going forward.

Go nuts. This is the thread for it.

May i suggest you knock the trolls on the head right now and rename this thread "North's list and how long will they be down" as there is no need for anybody to troll about relocation on such a topic.

I already have. Like 2 hours ago.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I dont have to go as far as google to see a lot of queries over your young talent coming through or around your drafting this year.

Your own board raises plenty of concerns.



It is a bit of a shocker. Leaving for nothing means you probably held them for too long. You really want to be using some of them as currency to help in the rebuild.

Carlton have traded out Henderson, Yarran, Bell, Touhy, Gibbs, Menzel in the past two years, netting us 5 extra 1st round picks, and 2 extra seconds. Those picks have been used to get in players like Curnow, McKay and Cuningham. We also used some of this currency to get in Marchbank (pick 6), Pickett (pick 4), Plowman (pick 3) and Kennedy (pick 13) for cheap.

We still have Murphy, Simpson, Kruezer as a senior core to play them around, and this years draft (3, 10, 30) and next years draft (extra 2nd rounder already) plus F/A etc to replace them.



I dont think the real issue with Melbourne was playing the kids too soon (although this certainly was an issue). It was they totally gutted the list of experience forcing them to play the kids too soon. Those kids had no senior players to play with and learn from, and got flogged weekly reuining the culture. This (plus a swathe of wasted early picks) trapped them in a death spiral where they had no leadership, experience or corporate knowledge, and it kind of just stagnated.

They've righted that ship recently, but it's taken a lot longer than it should have.

Carlton learnt from this by managing to hold onto a core of senior players to act as a skeleton to enable us to play the kids around. We've avoided floggings, and gotten some much needed games into the kids. They've held up pretty well.

It sounds like your argument is 'We have the talent, but you don't see them because they're in the VFL; instead we play older s**t players to protect them'. I'm not sure I really buy that argument.



You havent even really started a rebuild yet (other than push senior players out the door). Why on earth would you be looking for free agents already? That doesnt make any sense to me.

We're like 2 years in to our rebuild, and we havent bothered with any yet (and wont start to untill next year with Lynch and the year after with Shiel and Kelly). Our focus has been establishing the backline, getting our depth right by getting in talented kids 23 y/o and under, and using our low picks for 'best available' talent.

For removing senior players:
North still have the older guys to guide the list, Goldstein, Higgins, Tarrant, Waite and few in the 25-27 range from the older 2010-2014 rebuild to avoid a Melbourne-esqe situation. Let's look at the players that left. Mullett, got as many games as he did due to the longest injury list in the comp, an honest trier, but isn't going to get you anywhere if you are looking to push up the ladder. Swallow, a shell of his former self. Thomas, likewise. Gibson, is a handy average player and polled fairly in the BnF, but lacks class and pace, which has burnt North badly lately. Petrie, was largely cooked. Harvey, good player, was slowing down, didn't have a defensive bone in his body and it killed us in the latter years. Dal, cooked and Firrito was always considered an average player anyway by most posters.


No, my argument is that people in general haven't noticed the youth we played this year and the form of our older players pre-2017, as well as a lot of injuries to our younger players, warranted a lot of these kids to bide their time to develop for the 2017 season and beyond. They do have a long way to go, but you have to be optimistic during times such as these. Guys like Garner, Durdin, McKay Neilson, EVW, Simpkin, Turner and Wood have all been smashed by long-term injuries before and during this season, so they have needed the extra time, especially guys like McKay, Durdin and Nielson, who are all young KPP types. Durdin, EVW and Nielson all copped early season endings in their first ever season, pushing North's KPP development back 12 months. A lack of RS nominations don't concern me one bit as guys like Clarke can average over 25 disposals a game for over a month and not get a nomination, RS is primarily a popularity contest, feel free to disagree, but there's evidence on both sides on RS.


Nothing wrong with a younger FA (probably next year was a poor timetable on my behalf, but there is a few talented FA's on special next year) to add some elite talent and North is in a slightly different situation in that we can afford to pay the money to get an absolute elite FA, probably more likely in 2019 and latter though.


North did exactly what Carlton is doing with defence and picked 3 KPD's in the 2014 draft and picked up a resurgent Williams cheaply. It's definitely a full on rebuild, this aggressive reset bullshit was never an option in my opinion.

 

[the big lebowski]

For net compensation of [nothing].

We let go of just the one club champion, and got 2 x 1st rounders for him.

Incorrect.

Firstly you very rarely get compensation for retiring players.

Secondly, you did get compensation for free agents as we did for Wells.

just, and we were playing a lot of kids this year, and without Cripps for a third of it.

It does seem concerning that you can't finish above a team that has just said goodbye to 1,500 games of experience and has the worst list in the comp no?

I'd say its also concerning that your best and fairest was won by a 30 year old, third place an injury prone close to 30 year old ruck man having a career best year, Gibbs in 4th who is gone, Simpsons 5th who is 100. So 4 of the top 5 either gone or near/over 30.

you want to talk about losing close games, Carlton lost several games by close margins (many of which we were leading in the last quarter) and only 5 of our losses were by over five goals – and three of those coming against top-four sides.

Once again, we lost 5 games by under a kick.

a young side, we'll take that.

Or a young side carried by 4 old blokes.

isnt that the point? You went 'all out' (with some ridiculous offers) and didnt get them.

Surely thats a mark in the negative column, and not the positive one.

Its exactly as negative as it is for carlton who couldn't get kelly, martin or rockliff

, its about Norths prospects (on field and off) for the foreseeable future.

There is a 'Carlton in 2018' thread on the main board as well. You dont see us whinging about it.

please don't skew the narrative again. talk about north's list as being the worst list ever as much as you like. have multiple threads on it for all i care. i might agree with many of the negative comments. talking about football is the point of this site.

feel free to mention low crowds for a rebuilding team, etc

but talk of relocation is blatant trolling and that is the ONLY issue i have

; I'll shut down the trolling and not the thread. A discussion of North going forwards is fair game. Trolling relocation isnt.

You're not a protected species here. Ill whack trolls, but not fair criticism.

sounds like we are on the same page.

 

[WilloTree]

Per Roy Morgan they have more than Gold Coast, GWS, Melbourne and Bulldogs. It's not a perfect study as Sydney have the most supporters, by virtue of Sydney having a high population so many saying Swans support when it's not that passionate.

I don't see why numbers in Melbourne wouldn't be relatively accurate though.

I suppose this is the problem though. North have played finals regularly over recent history and still only sit ahead of Gold Coast, Brisbane and the Giants as far as memberships. More than 10% of their members walked out this year. I just don't think they can afford a prolonged re-build a let that number fall any further. Either, they fix the membership or relocate. We can't keep saying 'no supporters in Tassie' as the reason for not having a team there, but have 10 teams in Melbourne, with North under 40,000. Im not buying in any longer.

North Melbourne 40,343 -10.38%
Brisbane 21,362 -8.36%
GWS Giants 20,944 +36.78%
Gold Coast 11,665 -9.25%

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...r/news-story/65f26c30edb7aa13d876e6a0ca10ada5

 

[the big lebowski]

I suppose this is the problem though. North have played finals regularly over recent history and still only sit ahead of Gold Coast, Brisbane and the Giants as far as memberships. More than 10% of their members walked out this year. I just don't think they can afford a prolonged re-build a let that number fall any further. Either, they fix the membership or relocate. We can't keep saying 'no supporters in Tassie' as the reason for not having a team there, but have 10 teams in Melbourne, with North under 40,000. Im not buying in any longer.

North Melbourne 40,343 -10.38%
Brisbane 21,362 -8.36%
GWS Giants 20,944 +36.78%
Gold Coast 11,665 -9.25%

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...r/news-story/65f26c30edb7aa13d876e6a0ca10ada5

We cut 4 much loved champs, finished bottom 4 and finished with our third highest membership on record.

Fans of professional sport team aren't as interested when team is at the bottom!!!!!

That might be a really profound item you have stumbled upon dude.

Like essay worthy.

I can't believe no one has identified that before.

Question. Do you think the opposite might hold true too?

Stay with me here, maybe when we rise up the ladder in a few years, our membership might increase again………..

Do you think?

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

We cut 4 much loved champs, finished bottom 4 and finished with our third highest membership on record.

Fans of professional sport team aren't as interested when team is at the bottom!!!!!

That might be a really profound item you have stumbled upon dude.

Like essay worthy.

I can't believe no one has identified that before.

Question. Do you think the opposite might hold true too?

Stay with me here, maybe when we rise up the ladder in a few years, our membership might increase again………..

Do you think?

All those stats show me who the bandwagoners are and who are the ones who are actually give a damn about their clubs during tough and good times.

 

[the big lebowski]

All those stats show me who the bandwagoners are and who are the ones who are actually give a damn about their clubs during tough and good times.

Maybe we can get WilloTree to investigate a link between global warming and pollution.

It's just WilloTrees ability to think outside the box that might crack this thing wide open.

 

[WilloTree]

We cut 4 much loved champs, finished bottom 4 and finished with our third highest membership on record.

Fans of professional sport team aren't as interested when team is at the bottom!!!!!

That might be a really profound item you have stumbled upon dude.

Like essay worthy.

I can't believe no one has identified that before.

Question. Do you think the opposite might hold true too?

Stay with me here, maybe when we rise up the ladder in a few years, our membership might increase again………..

Do you think?

That's the point. North have been 'up the ladder'. I fully expect a team with sustained success (as North have had) to have more members than Melbourne; who haven't played finals since Heather Mills was still married to Paul McCartney.

Sure, team's membership fluctuates with success. But Fremantle have had 2 horrific seasons on field and only lost 1.2% of their members.

Question: Why do some teams retain their membership through periods of poor performance, and others lose 10% in 1 season?

 

[Malifice]

Incorrect.

Firstly you very rarely get compensation for retiring players.

Secondly, you did get compensation for free agents as we did for Wells.

Firstly you delayed your rebuild too long.

Secondly, a net gain of pick 36 for the loss of so much quality isnt great headed into a rebuild.

It does seem concerning that you can't finish above a team that has just said goodbye to 1,500 games of experience and has the worst list in the comp no?

Not really. We're playing an awful of of kids. You're on your way down. We're headed in the other direction. We're just two ships passing in the night.

I'd say its also concerning that your best and fairest was won by a 30 year old, third place an injury prone close to 30 year old ruck man having a career best year, Gibbs in 4th who is gone, Simpsons 5th who is 100. So 4 of the top 5 either gone or near/over 30.

Last year it was won by Docherty (then 22) who was runner up again this year (his first AA), and the year before it was won by Cripps at 20, when he was runner up in the R/S to Hogan. Im not at all concerned with our young talent coming through. We had 5 x R/S noms this year for a reason.

We're retaining a core of experienced players to enable us to play them, while releasing senior blokes in a staggered fashion to enable us to get young talent in the door. Last year it was Touhy (we upgraded a 2nd to a 1st). Year before it was Henderson (for a future 1st), Menzel (second rounder), Yarran (pick 19) and Bell and pick 41 (for picks 21 and 60). This year it was Gibbs for picks 10 and 16. We then split 16 into 3 x 2nd rounders, using one to grab Kennedy (former pick 13) retaining one this year (pick 30) and keeping the Dogs 2nd rounder to go with Adelaides future second rounder we have next year.

We've got a plan in place. Been at it for 2 years now.

I'm not seeing Norths plan. It seems to be 'push older players out the door and throw a bucket-load of money at established players.'

Its exactly as negative as it is for carlton who couldn't get kelly, martin or rockliff

We didnt make a play for Martin. We made a play for Kennedy, Lang, Rocky, Saad, Lobbe, Smith and Kelly. We got three of those four. We didnt overpay (in terms of $$$ or picks) as we are more focused on getting in youth by trading out older players, and improving our draft position, than we were in making big money plays for older players.

What Im getting at here, is I can see a clear list management strategy from Carlton here.

I cant see one from North (or Collingwood this year either, but that's a different story).