NT Team in the AFL?

[WillHayward]

I would think Tasmania and Canberra would get a team before NT ever will. Also you would think their would be a 3rd Perth team and a North Queensland team before the NT as well. The NT will get a team eventually but it won't be for another 20-30 years you would think.

Canberra Kangaroos?

 

[PeanutButter Pies]

Nah

 

[Boxhead_31]

Just for reference on the 22nd of September (AFL Prelim WC VS MELB)
In Darwin it reached a maximum of 35* and was still 31* at 6pm. Awesome weather for a final....

Alice Springs not part of the NT?

 

[Jen2310]

I've no doubt they have loads of talent and the sport is popular up there, but which players would agree to live up there and play in the constant heat? Not to mention the flights in between games. What is it, a 4-5 hr flight? I'd be all for it, but just not sure its viable.

I'd think they would prioritise Tasmania first.

 

[mightymouse75]

Tasmania says hi

 

[mightymouse75]

Afl just talking to make it look like they care.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Never going to happen. Darwin is puny.

Greater Western Sydney is huge ... but GWS still only manage an average attendance of 12000.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Who does Tassie have to **** to get a football team?

Tasmania says hi

NT might be strategically ahead of Tasmania in some ways.

Sure Tassie do host more AFL games ...

... but unlike Tassie, NT already have a team in a second tier men’s comp (NT Thunder in the NEAFL) and a team in a second tier women’s comp (NT Thunder in the VFL).

Whilst Tassie do host more AFL games than NT, NT do host some AFL games, but also AFLW games.

Sure, next year North Melbourne will play half of their AFLW games in Tassie - but it doesn’t seem that Tassie has the ‘build up from grass roots’ strategy that NT seem to be doing.

 

[psychobrown]

Merge St Mary's and the Buffs. NT Buffalo Mary's. Any missing positions can be covered by backpackers, as is the Darwin way.

 

[madmug]

What about Norfolk Island and the Antarctic territories?

Yep, a good idea. We'll have the Norfolk Pines, & the Great Southern King Penguins.

NT might be strategically ahead of Tasmania in some ways.

Sure Tassie do host more AFL games ...

... but unlike Tassie, NT already have a team in a second tier men’s comp (NT Thunder in the NEAFL) and a team in a second tier women’s comp (NT Thunder in the VFL).

Whilst Tassie do host more AFL games than NT, NT do host some AFL games, but also AFLW games.

Sure, next year North Melbourne will play half of their AFLW games in Tassie - but it doesn’t seem that Tassie has the ‘build up from grass roots’ strategy that NT seem to be doing.

Having a team in VFL/SANFL/WAFL/NEAFL means nothing in so far as getting into the AFL. The first Tassie VFL team got off to a good start with great community support. People actually though it might develop into the AFL club we all wanted. But the AFL powers amalgamated it with North Melbourne & it died a confused & miserable death. The proposed next rendition of the Tassie devils in the VFL, likewise, is just a waste of time. The VFL itself is losing its direction & may not survive for much longer as it is. So being in a 2nd tier is irrelevant to the AFL.

 

[76woodenspooners]

It was reported the NT Government is going to invest 100k into research into this. They should just give me the 100k and I'll tell them the same answer as the outcome of the research - It Won't happen.

The question is not “Will it happen?”, but rather “How will it happen and under what conditions?”

NT already have teams in the NEAFL and the VFLW. Part of the strategy might be to have a plan to put in an AFLW bid, and maybe move their Men’s team into the VFL (or some future seconds comp).

The strategy will look at provision of infrastructure (stadium capacity) and building up attendances and sponsorship opportunities.

They might come up with a 10 / 20 / 30 year plan out of it ... but that’s OK.

Any plan to upgrade TIO stadium would need many years by the time you get government involved, funding lined up, plans done, concrete laid etc. For example, WA government started thinking about Perth stadium in 2003 (obviously that was a much larger stadium/ infrastructure project compared with what Darwin would have)

... the AFL is only interested in putting teams in places with huge population bases.. regardless of whether the people in those places like AFL or not.

Yes, Gold Coast, Greater Western Sydney, Shanghai have been part of the AFL’s strategy over the last decade or so ... but strategies change, particularly when they don’t work out as expected.

 

[seanoff]

Darwin has a population of 110 - 120k all up and Darwin is 6X the size of Alice.

There just isn’t the population in the whole territory to support an AFL team from a crowd or economic base.

A crowd average of 10k would be amazing. A membership of that would be equally amazing. It would have to be sponsored/supported by the NT Govt to the tune of $20 - 30 million in 2018 dollars basically in perpetuity. So $250 for every person in the territory to fund a footy team. Mmmm. Not likely.

I’m from Darwin, born there, lived there for a number of decades. This is a dream that is probably a century away.

TIO could be brought up to par spectator wise for less than $50m. The Michael Long centre is a great training facility. But as above there is not the base to support an AFL team.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Well if they do I have a perfect name for the team. N.T Thunder.

 

[juss]

I dont see what this adds to the competition at all. Nobody drafted there outside of NT or maybe regional parts close to the NT in other states is going to spend their career there.
Add to that it would be a pretty rough, fatiguing trip for other clubs and brutal for the players themselves to train and play there through the year. The humidity of October-March would make pre seasons a nightmare for the players. Minimal commercial potential with crowds and sponsorship, I just dont see the point. You dont need a team in every state or territory.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Michael Gunner won’t see another term, bigger problems here in the NT than looking at whether or not we can successfully field an AFL team in the years to come. Dumb idea IMO

 

[dzussy]

I’ll

Give it 100 years and the NT will have a team in the AFL. Provided the AFL still exists.

I’ll say 500 years

 

[blitzer]

Why would the AFL want a NT team? High risk (of similar issues to Gold Coast), low reward (Low population).

 

[parano1a]

In terms of logistics, Tasmania and Canberra would have to be the most likely candidates for expansion clubs.

 

[76woodenspooners]

A crowd average of 10k would be amazing.

You’d probably get half of that in interstate visitors.

Understand that the population is low, but there would be far less competition for entertainment compared with the bigger cities?

A membership of that would be equally amazing. It would have to be sponsored/supported by the NT Govt to the tune of $20 - 30 million in 2018 dollars basically in perpetuity. So $250 for every person in the territory to fund a footy team. Mmmm. Not likely

NT Tourism works off an annual marketing budget of $43 million. Of course it would be silly to redirect all that to hosting an AFL team ... but the point is that there would be some government money available for an enterprise that could increase tourism.

GWS get around 5K interstate visitors to their home games. Darwin would be just as attractive as a tourist destination? Maybe even more so? 5K x 11 games = 60K people p/a. Average domestic tourist spend in NT is worth $1100 to NT economy. 60K x 1.1K = $76 million to the tourism economy. It wouldn’t add International tourists, but it would add to the NT attractions for them and probably up their spend a little. It probably wouldn’t be too difficult to come up with a business case that shows that an AFL team would be worth well over $100 million p/a to the NT economy including ...

- tourism ($76 million as above)
- exposure/advertising for the city and the state ($???)
- employment and expenditure (even the small clubs have annual budgets over $30 million p/a)
- etc etc ...

 

[76woodenspooners]

Why would the AFL want a NT team? High risk (of similar issues to Gold Coast), low reward (Low population).

NT is an AFL state. Queensland is not.

Unlike with Gold Coast, wouldn’t have to convince the locals to follow the sport and to turn up to games.

 

[76woodenspooners]

... Add to that it would be a pretty rough, fatiguing trip for other clubs and brutal for the players themselves to train and play there through the year. The humidity of October-March would make pre seasons a nightmare for the players. Minimal commercial potential with crowds and sponsorship, I just dont see the point.

NT Thunder managed to enter a team in the VFLW comp this year that ran parallel to the men’s season. The did pretty well too IIRC.

If the second tier women’s comp can manage it (and second tier NEAFL men’s comp ... surely this would be a non issue for an AFL team?

I dont see what this adds to the competition at all. Nobody drafted there outside of NT or maybe regional parts close to the NT in other states is going to spend their career there.

Yeah, fair point, it might be more difficult to retain people from interstate.

 

[scott_the_man]

Tassie has to come first. Double the population, very similar weather conditions to Melb, perfect for footy.

Playing in humid 35 degree conditions on a weekly basis would be a massive downfall and I don't think many draftees would be happy to go there.

 

[NT.Thunder]

People may want to check the price of airfares and accommodation during the dry season here in the NT before committing to a weekend of football in the sun. Not blessed with cheap flights on tap like the Eastern seaboard

 

[seanoff]

You’d probably get half of that in interstate visitors.

Understand that the population is low, but there would be far less competition for entertainment compared with the bigger cities?

Everything happens in a 6 month period. Starting in May and ending around the start of Sept there is among other things V8 Supercars, Darwin Cup Carnival, Darwin Festival, Bass in the Grass, Beer Can Regatta, Territory Day (people spend a lot on fireworks) any number of concerts, balls, DSO free events, Its pretty easy to find at least one or two events to go to every week during the dry if you are a local. In the wet nothing happens except the NTFL.

NT Tourism works off an annual marketing budget of $43 million. Of course it would be silly to redirect all that to hosting an AFL team ... but the point is that there would be some government money available for an enterprise that could increase tourism.

GWS get around 5K interstate visitors to their home games. Darwin would be just as attractive as a tourist destination? Maybe even more so? 5K x 11 games = 60K people p/a. Average domestic tourist spend in NT is worth $1100 to NT economy. 60K x 1.1K = $76 million to the tourism economy. It wouldn’t add International tourists, but it would add to the NT attractions for them and probably up their spend a little. It probably wouldn’t be too difficult to come up with a business case that shows that an AFL team would be worth well over $100 million p/a to the NT economy including ...

- tourism ($76 million as above)
- exposure/advertising for the city and the state ($???)
- employment and expenditure (even the small clubs have annual budgets over $30 million p/a)
- etc etc ...

Big part of answer in red in the quote.
There are about 3000 - 3500 total rooms in Darwin. During the dry the is very very little excess capacity as it is. It would be impossible to add 5000 people to the existing load. In fact 5000 people would be the total load. So 5000 AFL fans would just be kicking out 5000 others. So the economic benefit would be at best $0 if not negative.

Return Airfare to Darwin at that time of the year is probably a min of $500 and more likely closer to $1000 - $1200. You are then looking at $200 a night for very basic accom. The average fan is looking at close to 2K to go to Darwin to see 1 game.

Given the govt would basically own the team, the staff would essentially be public servants and that $30m is just coming from somewhere else. Net benefit again = 0.

Its a dream. Pay me $100k. I’ll do it. I’ve got the appropriate education and background to do it but the answer is still the same. Its not a viable operation. There isn’t the population to support it and there will not be for a good long while.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Big part of answer in red in the quote.

Gee, and I was worried about there not being much to keep an AFL footballer entertained. With all that going on, I might just move up there myself!!

“Beer can regatta” sounds like a hoot, I gotta google that!

There are about 3000 - 3500 total rooms in Darwin. During the dry the is very very little excess capacity as it is. It would be impossible to add 5000 people to the existing load. In fact 5000 people would be the total load. So 5000 AFL fans would just be kicking out 5000 others. So the economic benefit would be at best $0 if not negative.

Wow, if there became a reason to double the capacity of rooms in Darwin, then surely hotels, investors / government would jump at that!

Of course that would take time, but it takes time to expand stadiums, open up extra flight slots, etc, etc.

Return Airfare to Darwin at that time of the year is probably a min of $500 and more likely closer to $1000 - $1200. You are then looking at $200 a night for very basic accom. The average fan is looking at close to 2K to go to Darwin to see 1 game.

+ check out Kakadu, etc.

Plenty of Australians fly over Darwin to holiday in Bali. Redirecting that holiday to Darwin wouldn’t be a stretch.

And yes, flying to Darwin is expensive, but that’s because it hasn’t become a commoditised destination (yet).

Given the govt would basically own the team, the staff would essentially be public servants and that $30m is just coming from somewhere else. Net benefit again = 0.

Around $11 million would come from the AFL from broadcast rights distributions.

Just by being an AFL team they’ll be able to attract at least a few $million in sponsorship. The gate takings will be worth something. The membership will be worth something. Wouldn’t have thought the shortfall would be so much?

How much of GWS shortfall do you think the NSW government would be paying? Wouldn’t have thought they’d be paying anything at all and it would be up to the AFL to cough up. At least the NT government is showing an interest.

Its a dream. Pay me $100k. I’ll do it. I’ve got the appropriate education and background to do it but the answer is still the same. Its not a viable operation. There isn’t the population to support it and there will not be for a good long while.

Things change.

For example, If Darwin gets its Lithium mine going and boosting the local economy. The government work with the AFL to come up with a 12 year plan to get their own AFL team (by 2030, or whatever would be the start year of any new broadcast contract) subject to meeting some metrics along the way.

These include ...

- Moving NT Thunder out of NEAFL into proposed new seconds comp when it happens
- Establishment of NT Thunder AFLW Team
- Continuation of NT Thunder VFLW Team
- Upgrading of Marrara stadium capacity and facilities.
- Meeting membership and attendance targets.
- Darwin to successfully host a series of AFL conferences which include the draft.
- Bid to submit business plan that demonstrates viability.
- Need support of the other clubs.

Sure, it’s a tough ask, but surely they couldn’t do worse than GWS / GCS have done? I know people bang on about the population of Darwin being so low, but if population size really was that much of a factor then GCS/GWS would have the biggest memberships. They don’t. There are other factors at play.