Observations on internal issues?

[Rad Roo]

Unprofessional club too many north old boys

 

[Tectonic]

I think the gender equality action plan that the club launched had gender quotas or at least was pitched at evening up the balance.

Yeah it's not quotas, like you said they're just working towards being more inclusive

 

[King Corey]

..wasn't his thread about dysfunctional football management?

How did it turn into a chromosome test?

 

[Tectonic]

..wasn't his thread about dysfunctional football management?

How did it turn into a chromosome test?

Same way most threads get derailed

 

[King Corey]

Same way most threads get derailed

View attachment 738537

I don't really understand the whole software as a service stuff.

 

[ferball]

With that said, ‘gender quotas’ are plain simple dumb. There are much better ways to help promote and achieve gender diversity.

At the moment we’re focusing on education, ensuring equipment and processes can be used by both males and females and my favourite: we wait until there are an equal number of female applicants for a job opening, and then simply interview everyone fairly. If there isn’t enough then we advertise wider until there is.

These three steps have been working great for us and I can’t see why other companies and sporting clubs are blinding progressing with damaging quotas.

In the gender equality thread i posted a link to a study that showed an unconscious bias against hiring women in STEM positions that was shown by male and female HR staff even when the woman was actually better qualified than a man competing with her.

I'm not criticising what you are focusing on either.

But that bias is the reason quotas exist and some would say the reason they are necessary.

 

[Devington]

In the gender equality thread i posted a link to a study that showed an unconscious bias against hiring women in STEM positions that was shown by male and female HR staff even when the woman was actually better qualified than a man competing with her.

I'm not criticising what you are focusing on either.

But that bias is the reason quotas exist and some would say the reason they are necessary.

Replacing a subconscious bias with a conscious bias is idiotic. Getting more of a specific gender employed in a given industry is a terrible goal. The goal should be removing conscious and subconscious biases, specifically related to: their interest in the industry, their acceptance in the industry, and their hiring in the industry. Then just let the chips fall where they will, regardless of if it results in more or less of a given gender in a specific industries.

 

[ferball]

Replacing a subconscious bias with a conscious bias is idiotic. Getting more of a specific gender employed in a given industry is a terrible goal. The goal should be removing conscious and subconscious biases, specifically related to: their interest in the industry, their acceptance in the industry, and their hiring in the industry. Then just let the chips fall where they will, regardless of if it results in more or less of a given gender in a specific industries.

How are you gonna do that?

Also ... if you are employing people in the STEM field and you aren't sure your HR dept is somehow bias free then you are better off introducing some sort of gender quota simply to make sure your employees' unconscious bias doesn't cost you the best candidates for a position. failing to do this would harm your business over time.

 

[WesternRoo]

Has there been proven examples of women being overlooked for football roles, that they were qualified to have based on their sex?

If their isn’t evidence (which I doubt there is in any real or tangible volume) , all quotas do is dilute the talent pool and create a sense of cynicism around the status of women in roles they thoroughly deserve.

If we have such knuckle dragging rock apes who are so stupid that they employ unqualified men over qualified women, then quotas are the least of our issues.

 

[ferball]

Has there been proven examples of women being overlooked for football roles, that they were qualified to have based on their sex?

If their isn’t (which I doubt there is in any real or tangible volume) , all quotas do is dilute the talent pool and create a sense of cynicism around the status of women in roles they thoroughly deserve.

If we have such knuckle dragging rock apes who are so stupid that they employ unqualified men over qualified women, then quotas are the least of our issues.

Here's the report on the five year old study I posted in the GEAP thread over a year ago:

New research proves gender bias extraordinarily prevalent in science, technology, engineering and math fields

Here's the bit you need to read:

The experiment, done on both female and male hiring managers showed that when the hiring manager had no other information other than a candidate's gender, they were twice as likely to hire a man than a woman, because they incorrectly believed that men are more talented in science and math, the researchers found. This bias often led to hiring the less-capable job seeker.

"In some situations up to ninety percent of the time when a mistake was made, it was made in favor of a man," Reuben says.

Even more surprising was when the candidates were allowed to tell the managers how well they will perform; women were still only half as likely to be hired as men, the study showed. Unlike men, women who indicated that they will score higher that their competitors were overlooked. With these mathematical test scores in hand, the researchers were able to prove a tangible cost to discrimination of hiring managers.

It was done by Columbia Business School in the US, part of an Ivy league uni that's one of the oldest most respected business schools in the world.



This is the link to the study:

How stereotypes impair women’s careers in science

Does discrimination contribute to the low percentage of women in mathematics and science careers? We designed an experiment to isolate discrimination’s potential effect. Without provision of information about candidates other than their appearance, men are twice more likely to be hired for a...

www.pnas.org

Importantly the study found this bias was not only held by men but also women when hiring and that they ignored evidence about the best candidates in favour of their preconceived biases.

There are shit loads of studies (well at least a few) that show human brains fail to accurately assess information because of social biases, to the point where in some cases people will claim info they know is false to be true (and vice versa) to fit in with "in groups".

 

[King Corey]

Don't like to talk shop but in my trade (fluffer) there is no gender bias in the recruiting process.

If you can make wood, you'll make good.

 

[WesternRoo]

Here's the report on the five year old study I posted in the GEAP thread over a year ago:

New research proves gender bias extraordinarily prevalent in science, technology, engineering and math fields

Here's the bit you need to read:

The experiment, done on both female and male hiring managers showed that when the hiring manager had no other information other than a candidate's gender, they were twice as likely to hire a man than a woman, because they incorrectly believed that men are more talented in science and math, the researchers found. This bias often led to hiring the less-capable job seeker.

"In some situations up to ninety percent of the time when a mistake was made, it was made in favor of a man," Reuben says.

Even more surprising was when the candidates were allowed to tell the managers how well they will perform; women were still only half as likely to be hired as men, the study showed. Unlike men, women who indicated that they will score higher that their competitors were overlooked. With these mathematical test scores in hand, the researchers were able to prove a tangible cost to discrimination of hiring managers.

It was done by Columbia Business School in the US, part of an Ivy league uni that's one of the oldest most respected business schools in the world.



This is the link to the study:

How stereotypes impair women’s careers in science

Does discrimination contribute to the low percentage of women in mathematics and science careers? We designed an experiment to isolate discrimination’s potential effect. Without provision of information about candidates other than their appearance, men are twice more likely to be hired for a...

www.pnas.org

Importantly the study found this bias was not only held by men but also women when hiring and that they ignored evidence about the best candidates in favour of their preconceived biases.

There are s**t loads of studies (well at least a few) that show human brains fail to accurately assess information because of social biases, to the point where in some cases people will claim info they know is false to be true (and vice versa) to fit in with "in groups".

I may be missing something, but what I read there pertained to women getting jobs in the science and mathematics field despite a higher number of female undergraduates.

I was specifically referring to examples of women not being employed in football clubs, specifically examples at NMFC.

The biggest issue is, when you start discriminating against people to fight against discrimination (perceived or otherwise), you have already lost your way completely.

 

[Firestarter]

I may be missing something, but what I read there pertained to women getting jobs in the science and mathematics field despite a higher number of female undergraduates.

I was specifically referring to examples of women not being employed in football clubs, specifically examples at NMFC.

Your biggest issue is, when you start discriminating against people to fight against discrimination (perceived or otherwise), you have already lost your way completely.

That old negative aspect of feminism - putting men down to bring women up. Sitcoms have been doing that for decades but only stay at home mums watch those so it's fine.

Making conscious efforts to maintain a middle ground is hard...

 

[El Triggso]

Chief Commercial Officer
https://www.seek.com.au/Job/39862812/?cid=ios-share

P.S. Hi Boss, I found this website by accident. Honestly...

 

[Only Forwards]

Is that Donald's role?

 

[SlyCunnington]

Chief Commercial Officer
https://www.seek.com.au/Job/39862812/?cid=ios-share

P.S. Hi Boss, I found this website by accident. Honestly...

There is also a Consumer Sales Officer position open as well.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/NorthMelbourne/Files/ConsumerSalesServiceOfficer.pdf

 

[SlyCunnington]

There is also a Consumer Sales Officer position open as well.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/NorthMelbourne/Files/ConsumerSalesServiceOfficer.pdf

Actually noticed that applications for this closed on the 19th of August.

Given it's still on the club website I guess it hasn't been filled.

 

[The Brady Bunch]

Replacing a subconscious bias with a conscious bias is idiotic. Getting more of a specific gender employed in a given industry is a terrible goal. The goal should be removing conscious and subconscious biases, specifically related to: their interest in the industry, their acceptance in the industry, and their hiring in the industry. Then just let the chips fall where they will, regardless of if it results in more or less of a given gender in a specific industries.

In one gender bias study in education, the teachers being aware that the amount of class time they were spending with each gender was being measured, then consciously overcompensated towards the girls. They were shocked to learn that their conscious bias towards girls still resulted in a measured bias towards the boys in terms of time.

 

[El Triggso]

Is that Donald's role?

He is the Commercial Relationships Manager, which I would assume is a senior role within that team, and not the role being advertised.

 

[ferball]

I may be missing something, but what I read there pertained to women getting jobs in the science and mathematics field despite a higher number of female undergraduates.

I was specifically referring to examples of women not being employed in football clubs, specifically examples at NMFC.

Your biggest issue is, when you start discriminating against people to fight against discrimination (perceived or otherwise), you have already lost your way completely.

Who are you we discriminating against?

 

[ferball]

Don't like to talk shop but in my trade (fluffer) there is no gender bias in the recruiting process.

If you can make wood, you'll make good.

Isn't there a thread for that?

 

[WesternRoo]

Who are you we discriminating against?

Men.

The moment you introduce a quota of any number based on being female , you are discriminating against men.

 

[DrZaius]

Isn't there a thread for that?

The mods have a monthly (or weekly?) meetup at the Chaddy foodcourt about it if i'm not mistaken.

 

[Twinkletoes]

The mods have a monthly (or weekly?) gratis booking at Tender Touch for it if i'm not mistaken.

EFA Doc. The perks of the job.

 

[DrZaius]

EFA Doc. The perks of the job.

Give half tonne mom my regards