Official List Management Thread

[Jumbo]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

You have to respect the character of the club not to bottom out and embarrase itself. The club was expected to finish around the 9-14 mark and gave a very good effort throughout the home and away period, with the exception of 5 weeks.

.

That's probably the biggest question for the AFC at the moment, to bottom out or not to, can the crows next tilt at a premiership realisticly happen without bottoming out? I don't know the answer but Carlton and Hawthorn are showing the benefits of early draft picks

 

[pjcrows]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Retire:
Bassett
Biglands

Delist:

Jericho
McGregor
Gallman
Campbell
Massie

Offer for trade (not because I don't necessarily want them at the club, but for picks/players):
Knights
Johncock

Sellar and Gill get one more year. Can't afford to get rid of Gill just yet, need him there while Walker gets his first year under the belt.

That's all for now.

 

[pjcrows]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

That's probably the biggest question for the AFC at the moment, to bottom out or not to, can the crows next tilt at a premiership realisticly happen without bottoming out? I don't know the answer but Carlton and Hawthorn are showing the benefits of early draft picks

Richmond are the prime example of the reverse of stacking up the picks, too.

It's not necessarily about finishing bottom 4 for years on end, it's about picking up good players when you're 8th-16th. We haven't done that, neither has Richmond up until this year.

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

Departing:

Bassett
Biglands
Jericho
McGregor
Massie
Shirley
Campbell
Gallman
Goodwin

Can't disagree with that list. It is time to clear out the pigeon-toed backline. Goodwin is obviously the controversial one.......but I do think one of Goodwin, McLeod, or Edwards will go.

It won't surprise me if it's McLeod. He's the kind of player who can see the writing on the wall more so than the other 2.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Sellar is 2 years younger than Ktip...

And Tippet is just beginning to show some nice stuff.

Sellar will definately get the opportunity again to show something. I'd say he has 2 years to start getting into the 22, and only then does talk of delisting make sense.

You guys are being ridiculous, expecting a 1st year player to be J Brown.

And that summarizes the situation perfectly

 

[Rave Slave]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

If Sellar gets delisted this year then I'll boycott all Crows games next season. People suggesting he's done after 2 years are dribbling shit.



Retire

Bassett (Thanks for the memories mate. Legend)

Biglands (Shame about the knees big fella. Tried your guts out )



Delist:

Jericho (Surely? If this waste of list space gets another crack at it then I'm confident the club has given up all aspirations of winning a flag in my lifetime)

Mcgregor (Horrible way to end your career but he should never have been offered 2 years)

Campbell (showed enough to be given another crack but too many similar players)

Gallman (Unlucky but we need to load up in this draft)

2 of Massie/Shirley/Doughty (Harsh but necessary)

Gill (Just because he's our best current option doesn't mean he's our best future option. Blood someone new in this position because Nick Gill will never play in a flag for the AFC)

9 players gone and Petrenko gets the upgrade leaving 8 spaces. Trade for Thomson and select 7 youngsters for the main list.

 

[Rave Slave]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Sellar is 2 years younger than Ktip...

And Tippet is just beginning to show some nice stuff.

Sellar will definately get the opportunity again to show something. I'd say he has 2 years to start getting into the 22, and only then does talk of delisting make sense.

You guys are being ridiculous, expecting a 1st year player to be J Brown.

THANKYOU!

It's his first contract FFS and we knew that his first 2 seasons were all about fitness. I'd expect him to be established in Glenelg's firsts and playing good footy by mid next season and in the Crows side for probably 3 or 4 games late next year.

 

[Janus]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

That's probably the biggest question for the AFC at the moment, to bottom out or not to, can the crows next tilt at a premiership realisticly happen without bottoming out? I don't know the answer but Carlton and Hawthorn are showing the benefits of early draft picks

To be fair to the Crows, the way the draw opened up for them this season meant that any suggestion of 'bottoming out' would be akin to tanking.

The biggest thing the AFC needs to do is change the mindset that making finals is good enough. That's fine in an individual sport like swimming or track where the only thing you can improve is your own performance. In footy, you have the option, no the duty, to continually improve your list by recruiting, or trading for, better players.

Your forward line will always be an issue - simply because you don't finish low enough to secure a high first round draft pick, or you won't give up the players necessary to secure a good player from another team...preferring to draft in guys like Gill who should be considered a stop gap at best in a quality team.

Pride is a good quality to have. But so is humility - knowing when your best is not good enough and accepting that you need to change.

 

[achancely]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

Neil Craig - wrong! What more do supporters want?! Last year it was he's too robotic, this year he makes the changes and he's still criticised?! Damned if you do, damned if you don't i guess...

Changes are pointless if they have no solid reasoning behind them.

Craig had one set of moves - Bock forward, Stevens forward, McLeod forward - if things weren't going his way. He didn't try anything truly innovative, as a Blight would have. How about clearing out the forward 50 and letting Bernie Vince play FF, for example?

Craig made changes for the point of it, not because he showed any insight. And often his changes were as successful as the lack of forethought he showed.

We have to accept that under Craig we are going out to not lose. We rarely play to win. And you can't do that in a final. The worst thing is - the Gary Ayres gameplan won finals. Maybe Craig needs to take a leaf out of that playbook.

 

[Rave Slave]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Actually just to add to my list one of Goodwin/Mcleod or Edwards should also go leaving us with 10 off the list. Perhaps Gill IS safe

 

[Mad Dog]

I've merged all list management threads - no more please

 

[Elite Crow]

Given what lies ahead, I can not understand the logic in keeping Burton. That one should have been a no brainer.

 

[WALL-e]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Sellar has shown desire and competitiveness. That was something he worked on so hard over the pre season.

He's 19 or 20 now, why would we just get rid of him? That would just be such a waste.

Thank you.

This delist Sellar thing has got out of control on here.

The guy is 19.

His first year he had OP and struggled because of it.

His second year he has struggled with a lack of endurance, playing time and being played in too many different possies.

He is dieing for a pre-season.

If you delist a KPF at 19, you're crazy. Especially an athletic KPF witht he exact body type we need to mould a CHF.

 

[WALL-e]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

Neil Craig - wrong! What more do supporters want?! Last year it was he's too robotic, this year he makes the changes and he's still criticised?! Damned if you do, damned if you don't i guess...

Kris Massie - wrong! Gives his all, solid at contests, good disposal and is accountable for his actions...

Shirley - wrong again! Takes the hardest tag, often shuts the opponent down while creating effective posessions himself - needs to be retained for at least another year...

Apart from that, mostly agree

Thanks for the 'wrong' with the exclaimation point, i did write it's just my opinion and wont hit a home run with everyone.

NC - I thought I was rather fare with his review. Nothing special to make you jump out of your seat and go "wow, great coaching move there, who would have thought" but a strong consistant performance to get the most out of little. I think a B- is justified.

Massie - I said he is courageous and hard at it. But some games he gets owned and seems to let it get the better of him, and his skills aren't shinning, something you don't want from a 27 yo borderline player.

Shirley - I know he's our best tagger and i acknowledged that. But tagging is a desire, we could be getting a young kid with the same passion as shirls out on the park and getting the experience needed. If we don't delist this year then he falls in the leave with mcleod edwards burton group. That means not only are we blooding youngsters with no experience to teach them but we'll have to find taggers with noone to assist.

Remember we're not going after a flag next year, although it would be nice, but rather developing players and getting experience for our youngsters to give it a crack in 2010 onwards.

 

[WALL-e]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

That's probably the biggest question for the AFC at the moment, to bottom out or not to, can the crows next tilt at a premiership realisticly happen without bottoming out? I don't know the answer but Carlton and Hawthorn are showing the benefits of early draft picks

Carlton are yet to make the 8, their best players wasn't drafted by them and they will be under harsh salary cap pressure when these youngsters want contracts.

Hawthorn had 2 concecutive years with 3 picks in the top 7. That will never happen again as the priority picks will be on their way out.

The draft is still hit and miss.

Franklin was taken by Hawthorn at 5 (3 picks before Meesen, ironically there were 3 priority picks too ) but they didn't want him. They wanted Tambling and we're shocked when the Tigs picked him up, forcing them to go with 2 talls, a move that has payed off for them.

My point is the draft is a lottery of luck. You can get Buddy, or you can get Fiora or Angwin etc.

Although I think player scouting is so far ahead of what it was in the 90's.

 

[WALL-e]

Re: End of season thoughts, changes and grades.

Can't disagree with that list. It is time to clear out the pigeon-toed backline. Goodwin is obviously the controversial one.......but I do think one of Goodwin, McLeod, or Edwards will go.

It won't surprise me if it's McLeod. He's the kind of player who can see the writing on the wall more so than the other 2.

I hope one of them retires because it would be heartbreaking to tell em your out.

McLeod has another year on his contract doesn't he? or Signed a 1 yearer?

Goody's body just seems so worn down.

 

[macca23]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Thank you.

This delist Sellar thing has got out of control on here.

The guy is 19.

His first year he had OP and struggled because of it.

His second year he has struggled with a lack of endurance, playing time and being played in too many different possies.

He is dieing for a pre-season.

If you delist a KPF at 19, you're crazy. Especially an athletic KPF witht he exact body type we need to mould a CHF.

Sellar won't be delisted.

Can't believe some of the rubbish posted about getting rid of him.

He may have to transfer to another SANFL club though to allow him to develop. At Glenelg they already have too many non-Crow forwards who play good SANFL footy.

There's nothing in it for Glenelg to develop an AFL player so that he won't ultimately play with them.

As wall_ryan said, he desperately needs a full uninterrupted pre-season - and an opportunity to play a full game each week.

 

[maccas_no1]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Where do you see REILLY ??

In a Collingwood jumper.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

I think today proved how desperately we need a fit and firing Radar; would've been nice to have someone with a big, penetrating, accurate kick today.

You're drawing a fairly long bow there. With the way we were comprehensively outplayed in the endeavor and intensity department, I doubt Reilly would have got anywhere near it. A total non factor.

 

[Crowboy#32]

Edwards has earned another year and if Goody wants to play another year he will. To suggest that these two should go before Gill is nothing short of stupid

 

[Truck Rutten]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

no it's his approach to training, we all knnow how much emphasise Craigy puts on track form

the key reason the bays have dropped him to the 2's is his lack of competiveness and desire

post season 2007 the AFC made it very clear to James that this was the area that they expected greater consistency, his pre-season was improved however he has not maintained the expectations

personally I hope the lad gets another year, and I think he should, however he needs to take his training to another couple of levels

if we could combine tippett and sellar, we would have a player

What, it took them three quarters of the season to realise that did it? Sorry, but I don't believe you. With Cranston dominating the ruck and 3 tall forwards who are older and more physically developed already in the side, James' opportunities in the league side were limited. Rubbers wouldn't have kept him in the side for so long if he had question marks over James' effort and intensity.

 

[WALL-e]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

What, it took them three quarters of the season to realise that did it? Sorry, but I don't believe you. With Cranston dominating the ruck and 3 tall forwards who are older and more physically developed already in the side, James' opportunities in the league side were limited. Rubbers wouldn't have kept him in the side for so long if he had question marks over James' effort and intensity.

Agree, everything i've seen from Sellar, he runs hard chases and has desire.

They dropped him to the 2's because there's no point having a tall on the bench who doesn't play.

Get him away from Glenelg.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Sellar is 2 years younger than Ktip...

And Tippet is just beginning to show some nice stuff.

Sellar will definately get the opportunity again to show something. I'd say he has 2 years to start getting into the 22, and only then does talk of delisting make sense.

You guys are being ridiculous, expecting a 1st year player to be J Brown.

To me this is a sensible approach regardless of Sellar's form!

He is a big lad, learning a new position and he WILL require some time. For what ever reason, he is not coming on as much as many people have hoped he would but he is a young kid that is still learning a new position.

Give him another couple of years to see what he is capable off. He could well end up being yet another 1st round bust for us, but at least give him every opportunity to come good. If Matthew Smith gets 5 years on the list without playing a game, if Jericho gets 5-6 years on the list for a handful of games, why can't we invest the same resources into a 196 cm talented player that needs a lot of fine tuning!

I would be BITTERLY disappointed if the club gave up on Sellar after 2 years. IMHO, there would have to be something seriously wrong with him for the club to give up so soon.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

To me this is a sensible approach regardless of Sellar's form!

He is a big lad, learning a new position and he WILL require some time. For what ever reason, he is not coming on as much as many people have hoped he would but he is a young kid that is still learning a new position.

Give him another couple of years to see what he is capable off. He could well end up being yet another 1st round bust for us, but at least give him every opportunity to come good. If Matthew Smith gets 5 years on the list without playing a game, if Jericho gets 5-6 years on the list for a handful of games, why can't we invest the same resources into a 196 cm talented player that needs a lot of fine tuning!

I would be BITTERLY disappointed if the club gave up on Sellar after 2 years. IMHO, there would have to be something seriously wrong with him for the club to give up so soon.

Think we are OK for tall forwrds .........dropping Sellar for yet another unknown draft gamble doesn't make sense.

Sellar has all the skills required ......now it's education and plain hard work

We need a CLASSY INSIDE MIDFIELDER and a Burton type forwrd who can mark and run .......in other words a difficult matchup

Could Lewis Johnstone be that type .

 

[Elite Crow]

Re: The definitive 2008 player cull.

Goodwin was on Channel 9 news tonight stating we didnt need to recruit any high profile players and the improvement will come from development within and trading. Great we can hope to move up to 6th next year.

The way he was talking you would expect him to play on next year unless he was given the tap.