Ongoing Test match XI speculation thread.

[The Passenger]

if Paine is dropped (he won't be) the captaincy will go to Cummins.

 

[Marshland]

if Paine is dropped (he won't be) the captaincy will go to Cummins.

Why him and not Labuschagne?

 

[The Passenger]

Why him and not Labuschagne?

Cummins is vice captain so it seems logical, even if we haven't gone down the bowler route for a long time.

Labu has really only been in the national set up for 18-24 months. It's not out of the question they go to Labu but I think they would let him get a bit more experience in Australian colours first. Obviously Paine hadn't played many tests prior to his elevation but he had been in and around the national set up a decade prior and was a very well known quantity in the first class scene. Plus his promotion was obviously in very exceptional circumstances.

 

[Blue Arrow]

Not a great time for Pattinson to get injured, he would of been a near certainty to replace one of the sidekick pacers in Brisbane. Neser in with a real chance now after that sorry effort from the bowling attack.

 

[Richard Pryor]

35 year old wicketkeeper Tim Paine first class centuries since November 2006: 2

25 year old wicketkeeper Josh Inglis first class centuries this season: 2

For quite a while Lehmann the coach had a more recent FC ton than Paine

 

[Bollox]

if Paine is dropped (he won't be) the captaincy will go to Cummins.

Why on earth would Paine be dropped ?

I suppose you're either in the "popular" club or not these days.

Would be near the last to be at risk of being dropped.

 

[iluvparis]

Why on earth would Paine be dropped ?

I suppose you're either in the "popular" club or not these days.

Would be near the last to be at risk of being dropped.

Because he has been a sub par wicket keeper for over 2 years now (as evidenced today) and is moderate at best with the bat. His poor captaincy may now cost us 2 series inside 18 months. No point dropping him for Brisbane but that should be his last ever test and he should be forced to retire after this series.

 

[cricketnut14]

Because he has been a sub par wicket keeper for over 2 years now (as evidenced today) and is moderate at best with the bat. His poor captaincy may now cost us 2 series inside 18 months. No point dropping him for Brisbane but that should be his last ever test and he should be forced to retire after this series.

batting moderate at best - it's better than wades.

paine statistically is our second best keeper batsman (with haddin) to gilly.

the captaincy debate is a whole other issue. if paine was to suddenly miss a game then i'd assume cummins would captain.

but when the time comes for our next full time captain - well that will be a well discussed topic.

 

[Bollox]

Because he has been a sub par wicket keeper for over 2 years now (as evidenced today) and is moderate at best with the bat. His poor captaincy may now cost us 2 series inside 18 months. No point dropping him for Brisbane but that should be his last ever test and he should be forced to retire after this series.

Self loathing 101 ^^

Bit of sledging and a sub par (for HIM) day with the gloves and he's out is he ?

Bloke has a fantastic record since coming in for Haddin. Also a good captaincy record in tests.

Bowlers and bats get game after game to prove themselves. Not a quality keeper though. Drop a cpl of difficult chances and its all over coz he's "old" and not "popular" with the fickle types that constantly crave change.

Other nations try to pick their keeper based on batting, and its invariably a dismal failure whenever they analyse the games. Dont EVER do it. It costs games at ALL levels. It isnt something even up for discussion due to the number of times in 150years it has been proven.
If a bloke comes along like Gilchrist its about the only time you can...and even then its generally when you have the luxury of being an already good team.
You can easily see it in India touring at the moment with Pant and Saha. In this game they got the best of both worlds as it turned out.
Hit and giggle cricket is a totally different matter. This is test cricket with 2 full unlimited time innings each.

He's playing well. Not his best innings behind the stumps of course but when you start expecting perfection EVERY time you'll have a shit team in no time.
Why shouldnt Lyon be dropped ? Starc dropped ? Wade dropped ? Warner dropped ?

His batting isnt even an issue. Nor should it be. He's actually become an even better keeper since the surprise captaincy.

Turns out his declaration was perfect...despite all the "experts" in his ear telling him it was too many runs.
Naturally you get no cred for doing things well...a thick edge at the stumps goes to ground though and the fickle flogs are all over your arse.

Last year he captained a two test series to 2-0...and 3-0 over the supposed (wannabe) best team in the world.

Fact is Australia just played a winning draw that went the distance. You dont suddenly make changes simply becoz of a bit of whinging from softcoqs and flogs that would prefer the other mob wins.

 

[iluvparis]

Self loathing 101 ^^

Bit of sledging and a sub par (for HIM) day with the gloves and he's out is he ?

Bloke has a fantastic record since coming in for Haddin. Also a good captaincy record in tests.

Bowlers and bats get game after game to prove themselves. Not a quality keeper though. Drop a cpl of difficult chances and its all over coz he's "old" and not "popular" with the fickle types that constantly crave change.

Other nations try to pick their keeper based on batting, and its invariably a dismal failure whenever they analyse the games. Dont EVER do it. It costs games at ALL levels. It isnt something even up for discussion due to the number of times in 150years it has been proven.
If a bloke comes along like Gilchrist its about the only time you can...and even then its generally when you have the luxury of being an already good team.
You can easily see it in India touring at the moment with Pant and Saha. In this game they got the best of both worlds as it turned out.
Hit and giggle cricket is a totally different matter. This is test cricket with 2 full unlimited time innings each.

He's playing well. Not his best innings behind the stumps of course but when you start expecting perfection EVERY time you'll have a sh*t team in no time.
Why shouldnt Lyon be dropped ? Starc dropped ? Wade dropped ? Warner dropped ?

His batting isnt even an issue. Nor should it be. He's actually become an even better keeper since the surprise captaincy.

Turns out his declaration was perfect...despite all the "experts" in his ear telling him it was too many runs.
Naturally you get no cred for doing things well...a thick edge at the stumps goes to ground though and the fickle flogs are all over your arse.

Last year he captained a two test series to 2-0...and 3-0 over the supposed (wannabe) best team in the world.

Fact is Australia just played a winning draw that went the distance. You dont suddenly make changes simply becoz of a bit of whinging from softcoqs and flogs that would prefer the other mob wins.

That's the point - he hasn't had a sub par day - he has had a sub par 2 years with the gloves but for some completely unknown reason gets an absolute free ride for it.

Time to make a change.

 

[Bollox]

That's the point - he hasn't had a sub par day - he has had a sub par 2 years with the gloves but for some completely unknown reason gets an absolute free ride for it.

Time to make a change.

Utter Horseshit sponsored by a one day memory, and no interest in looking at his actual record with the gloves.

 

[iluvparis]

Utter Horseshit sponsored by a one day memory, and no interest in looking at his actual record with the gloves.

Nope - go back and search my multiple posts where I have highlighted his poor keeping performances over the last two years. You are the one that has a one day memory and have forgotten his extremely poor keeping for the last 2 years.

It is people like you that defend him unrelentingly that have let him get away with it.

 

[Bollox]

Nope - go back and search my multiple posts where I have highlighted his poor keeping performances over the last two years. You are the one that has a one day memory and have forgotten his extremely poor keeping for the last 2 years.

It is people like you that defend him unrelentingly that have let him get away with it.

Alright then...out of interest which keeper took the best catch in this game ? Was it Saha diving down leg side ?

 

[Bollox]

Who had ZERO byes for the game ?
Hint: Indian keepers let thru byes in both innings.

 

[Manbearpig77]

Self loathing 101 ^^

Bit of sledging and a sub par (for HIM) day with the gloves and he's out is he ?

Bloke has a fantastic record since coming in for Haddin. Also a good captaincy record in tests.

Bowlers and bats get game after game to prove themselves. Not a quality keeper though. Drop a cpl of difficult chances and its all over coz he's "old" and not "popular" with the fickle types that constantly crave change.

Other nations try to pick their keeper based on batting, and its invariably a dismal failure whenever they analyse the games. Dont EVER do it. It costs games at ALL levels. It isnt something even up for discussion due to the number of times in 150years it has been proven.
If a bloke comes along like Gilchrist its about the only time you can...and even then its generally when you have the luxury of being an already good team.
You can easily see it in India touring at the moment with Pant and Saha. In this game they got the best of both worlds as it turned out.
Hit and giggle cricket is a totally different matter. This is test cricket with 2 full unlimited time innings each.

He's playing well. Not his best innings behind the stumps of course but when you start expecting perfection EVERY time you'll have a sh*t team in no time.
Why shouldnt Lyon be dropped ? Starc dropped ? Wade dropped ? Warner dropped ?

His batting isnt even an issue. Nor should it be. He's actually become an even better keeper since the surprise captaincy.

Turns out his declaration was perfect...despite all the "experts" in his ear telling him it was too many runs.
Naturally you get no cred for doing things well...a thick edge at the stumps goes to ground though and the fickle flogs are all over your arse.

Last year he captained a two test series to 2-0...and 3-0 over the supposed (wannabe) best team in the world.

Fact is Australia just played a winning draw that went the distance. You dont suddenly make changes simply becoz of a bit of whinging from softcoqs and flogs that would prefer the other mob wins.

I completely agree that Paine is going nowhere any time soon and anyone who thinks he will is being reactionary and foolish.
He's actually our 3rd highest averaging batsman this series and people seem to forget he almost single handedly saved us in the 1st test in Adelaide.

That being said, he did indeed have a mare yesterday. It was very similar to his captaincy during the Headingly test, I think Paine panics when the pressure gets turned up and he's generally an unimaginative and conservative captain. Whether it was his or the coaching staffs directive to bowl short garbage at India for the vast majority of the day, I don't know but he should have seen it wasn't working and instructed the bowlers to pitch it up and attack the stumps. The fact that in the session before tea our pace bowlers bowled 122 deliveries, 13 of which would have hit the stumps is frankly, idiotic. As soon as Starc started pitching the ball up at the top of off stump he drew an edge which was painfully and unfortunately put down.

At least he put his hand up after the game and took responsibility for his drops, that shows leadership and character, but I think Langer needs to get in his ear about holding his nerve when things start going against us. He'll be playing and captaining us for a while yet, as he well should.

 

[iluvparis]

Alright then...out of interest which keeper took the best catch in this game ? Was it Saha diving down leg side ?

Only one keeper cost his team the match and possibly the series - the other saved it

 

[Bollox]

I completely agree that Paine is going nowhere any time soon and anyone who thinks he will is being reactionary and foolish.
He's actually our 3rd highest averaging batsman this series and people seem to forget he almost single handedly saved us in the 1st test in Adelaide.

That being said, he did indeed have a mare yesterday. It was very similar to his captaincy during the Headingly test, I think Paine panics when the pressure gets turned up and he's generally an unimaginative and conservative captain. Whether it was his or the coaching staffs directive to bowl short garbage at India for the vast majority of the day, I don't know but he should have seen it wasn't working and instructed the bowlers to pitch it up and attack the stumps. The fact that in the session before tea our pace bowlers bowled 122 deliveries, 13 of which would have hit the stumps is frankly, idiotic. As soon as Starc started pitching the ball up at the top of off stump he drew an edge which was painfully and unfortunately put down.

At least he put his hand up after the game and took responsibility for his drops, that shows leadership and character, but I think Langer needs to get in his ear about holding his nerve when things start going against us. He'll be playing and captaining us for a while yet, as he well should.

No denying that. Any keeper would be dirty on that one.
I prefer to look at an entire match though. The game wasnt decided on that.
That Vihari bloke dropped an absolute sitter at square leg off Labuschagne that hurt as much. Now he's a hero.

It'd be nice if everything stuck everytime. Lets not forget how many Gilchrist dropped that he couldnt explain, Healy too.

I see where you;re coming from though and fair enough. Not a great day for him.

All round though, he has had a pretty damn good series. Could argue a very good series. Thats both behind and in front of stumps. Cant say the same for all others.

 

[Bollox]

Only one keeper cost his team the match and possibly the series - the other saved it

Pant is an ordinary keeper that has had one good game with the BAT here.

Paine didnt cost the game u twit. The game is over 5 days. By your reckoning you'll be arguing Vihari cost India the win by dropping Labuschagne. But he's probably a hero today

Paine had an excellent first innings behind the stumps. Plus made runs. Plus declared at the right time. Plus damn solid field placements in first innings.

You just want to pick a batsman, that also keeps, and never drops a catch....thats coz u have absolutely no idea.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

No denying that. Any keeper would be dirty on that one.
I prefer to look at an entire match though. The game wasnt decided on that.
That Vihari bloke dropped an absolute sitter at square leg off Labuschagne that hurt as much. Now he's a hero.

It'd be nice if everything stuck everytime. Lets not forget how many Gilchrist dropped that he couldnt explain, Healy too.

I see where you;re coming from though and fair enough. Not a great day for him.

All round though, he has had a pretty damn good series. Could argue a very good series. Thats both behind and in front of stumps. Cant say the same for all others.

He's been VERY POOR as a captain this series though, he's lucky that we ran through them for 36 because we'd be 2-0 down at home otherwise. He's not under any pressure but his series is at best a 5/10. His day yesterday arguably cost the match, the two off Lyon should be taken, the one off Starc didn't matter too much, we weren't getting 4 wickets in 8 overs anyway.

 

[11kgm]

The thing with Paine is he has won 1 test and lost us at least 3 by poor captaincy, poor keeping or poor DRS

 

[JackOutback]

Nothing to write home about in the bolded there either.

Inglis has the potential to play for Australia, the rest, not so much. Whiteman is a shame, he was on track to be a keeper for Australia before his finger injury. He's in a good run of form, but can't see him playing for Australia as a specialist bat.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Inglis has the potential to play for Australia, the rest, not so much. Whiteman is a shame, he was on track to be a keeper for Australia before his finger injury. He's in a good run of form, but can't see him playing for Australia as a specialist bat.

Stupid question but could we just pick Whiteman as the keeper. Yeah I know he's not keeping for WA. I'd feel more at ease him keeping than Carey!

 

[Bollox]

He's been VERY POOR as a captain this series though, he's lucky that we ran through them for 36 because we'd be 2-0 down at home otherwise. He's not under any pressure but his series is at best a 5/10. His day yesterday arguably cost the match, the two off Lyon should be taken, the one off Starc didn't matter too much, we weren't getting 4 wickets in 8 overs anyway.

I suppose Rahane has been better ?
22 and 4 plus a dropped catch. Let the game slip from him on more than one occasion this test. Aust cruising along on a few occasions and zero imagination with his field and bowlers.
Lets find some excuses for his captaincy. Must be a few if we want to find them.

Paine, until yesterday perhaps, has had an excellent series including captaincy.
His match was still far better than any batsman making a dbl failure like Rahane. Orrrr any bowler having 2 ordinary performances such as Lyon or Starc.

Whenever there is disappointment at a result, the fickle mob try to isolate a scapegoat and put him out there to be eaten.

His keeping (apart from ONE day) A
His batting B+
His captaincy B+ including this game.

Austs Bowling this game C
Austs batting this game A-

I dont give a flying fk if some precious petal prefers no standard issue sledging, no controversies, no drop catches, all bowlers get 3-50, all bats make it to 50. IT DOESNT HAPPEN THAT WAY.

Paine's place and captaincy isnt even under threat. Nor should it be. Only wishful thinkers and closet fans of other nations want it to be.

He is likely to RETIRE in the next 2 years. It will become obvious when he needs to but right now he's having a good series but had 1 crap day.

Point the bone at the ordinary bowling yesterday. The captain went ordinary and took the heat for them as a good leader does. We all know the bowling was poor at best but some want to take pot shots at a guy having a good series.

 

[JackOutback]

Stupid question but could we just pick Whiteman as the keeper. Yeah I know he's not keeping for WA. I'd feel more at ease him keeping than Carey!

I don't think so; Inglis is ahead of him slightly as a batter and he keeps as well; might as well pick him. But I suspect Whiteman has given away keeping because of the injuries and focused on just being a bat.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I don't think so; Inglis is ahead of him slightly as a batter and he keeps as well; might as well pick him. But I suspect Whiteman has given away keeping because of the injuries and focused on just being a bat.

Yeah fair point, just looking for a keeper that could do it for 2 years of so till Inglis is really ready. Such a shame Whiteman got injured, least Paine got a chance after his injuries, people will forget how good Sam was with the gloves.