Patrick Dangerfield - potential GOAT?

[Mr Meow]

Not on the Geelong board in the preview thread. There was mention that he coughed - shock, horror - once. There were plenty of remarks afterwards that he was fine and laughing before the match. Where was this mysterious cough during his speech?

Occam's razor provides a much simpler answer. A 35 year old player, whose output has been declining for years already, and who had 3 average to solid games against Brisbane this year, had an even quieter game in the Grand final. Even more likely after following up his best game in years the previous week.

It's been curious to see how some Geelong fans have become so insecure and protective that they simply cannot ever admit star players play bad games. And sometimes fail completely. It's an excuse that is absolutely never extended to opposition players either.

It absolutely is.

Reid in the 2022 GF. Another Reid in the 2011 GF.

Martin in 2 of his worse finals: 2018 PF + 2022 EF.

Hird in the 2001 GF.

Davis in the 2019 GF.

Chapman in the 2008 GF.

Rioli was nursed through the 2014 GF but his team dominated so it didn't matter.

Plenty of other times the gamble paid off and players excelled in finals despite being hampered. But it is a gamble. Hindsight reveals whether it was a correct one and hindsight is a beautiful thing.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Not on the Geelong board in the preview thread. There was mention that he coughed - shock, horror - once. There were plenty of remarks afterwards that he was fine and laughing before the match. Where was this mysterious cough during his speech?

Occam's razor provides a much simpler answer. A 35 year old player, whose output has been declining for years already, and who had 3 average to solid games against Brisbane this year, had an even quieter game in the Grand final. Even more likely after following up his best game in years the previous week.

It's been curious to see how some Geelong fans have become so insecure and protective that they simply cannot ever admit star players play bad games. And sometimes fail completely. It's an excuse that is absolutely never extended to opposition players either.

I thought it was noticeable in the Preliminary Final in the second half, the Hawks bigger defenders in particular were making Dangerfield pay full price for his physical style of play, at every opportunity they had.

As a result, I think he has likely entered the Grand Final a bit banged up, though with no significant specific injury.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I was at the game and Danger went missing after half time when the heat turned up. His goal was from taking an embarrassing dive. He put it into the crowd 3 or 4 times in the second half. Stats aren't everything, Paddy was a liability

In general Patrick Dangerfield is like a bull at the contest and is a contested ball beast. But when he lines up for goal you never know where that ball is going to end up.

Althought his goals outnumber his points scored over his career (365/284 according to https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/P/Patrick_Dangerfield.html) you would not want to rely on him for an after-the-siren shot.

To my mind that is the biggest blot on his record.

 

[soafraid]

In general Patrick Dangerfield is like a bull at the contest and is a contested ball beast. But when he lines up for goal you never know where that ball is going to end up.

Althought his goals outnumber his points scored over his career (365/284 according to https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/P/Patrick_Dangerfield.html) you would not want to rely on him for an after-the-siren shot.

To my mind that is the biggest blot on his record.

To me it's his inside 50 entry hack kicks

 

[peetoo]

I was at the game and Danger went missing after half time when the heat turned up. His goal was from taking an embarrassing dive. He put it into the crowd 3 or 4 times in the second half. Stats aren't everything, Paddy was a liability

Some of our 4 time hawks sacrificed their individual game for the team. With obvious results.


Danger probably doesn’t hve that in him

 

[DearJai]

Totally. Everyone here takes you very seriously so I'm happy to declare all of the above as certified fact.

Don't forget that it also illustrated how easy it is to get under your wafer thing skin with some run of the mill hyperbole.

The fact stands though, Mission Accomplished is the dumbest thing most of us have heard a coach say post after a loss on the eve of finals, in decades.

Extra points for your projection though. Bravo.

 

[Sttew]

Some of our 4 time hawks sacrificed their individual game for the team. With obvious results.


Danger probably doesn’t hve that in him

Danger did just that in the 2022 GF. Sacrificed his game and arguably missed out on the NS medal because of it. He ended up with 6 goal assists which was (and probably still is) a record for a GF.

 

[Mr Meow]

Don't forget that it also illustrated how easy it is to get under your wafer thing skin with some run of the mill hyperbole.

The fact stands though, Mission Accomplished is the dumbest thing most of us have heard a coach say post after a loss on the eve of finals, in decades.

Extra points for your projection though. Bravo.

Amazing story. Good luck with turning it into a bestseller. Have a fantastic day!

 

[theprospector]

Has had one of the unluckiest runs with the flu in big games we've ever seen. If it wasn't for that he is the goat.

 

[Mr Meow]

Has had one of the unluckiest runs with the flu in big games we've ever seen. If it wasn't for that he is the goat.

You've had one of the unluckiest runs of angry whinges in Geelong threads we've ever seen. If it wasn't for that you'd be the GOAT.

 

[The Goon]

As the OP asked 9 years ago, this was a 'could he' thread. Potentially he could have been, but thats not how it turned out.

Danger is undoubtedly one of the best players of his generation, but a GAOT? No. Close to, but not even top of his era.

 

[Seeds]

You've had one of the unluckiest runs of angry whinges in Geelong threads we've ever seen. If it wasn't for that you'd be the GOAT.

You mean 1 game? When were the others?

 

[Partridge]

Where is danger in order just goat in Geelong?

He's not even the greatest Geelong midfielder of recent decades let alone all time.

 

[peetoo]

He's not even the greatest Geelong midfielder of recent decades let alone all time.

I reckon Chappy might be well down the list but I’d take him any day over Danger

 

[Partridge]

lol, this old chestnut.

‘We will learn some things from tonight. In that respect it’s kind of ‘mission accomplished’ a little bit but the competitor in you and in our boys would clearly like to have performed better after half-time.’

‘I’m certainly not sitting here saying at half time we said ‘boys we’ve done the job let’s let them walk all over us in the second half.’

Yeah it sounds like he really used those two words in the context you’ve spent a decade pretending he used them in

Here's the planet Earth chronology.

Geelong plays Hawthorn in Round 22, 2014, and leads by 31 points at half time. Hawthorn kick 11 goals to 3 after half time to win by 23 points. Then Scott utters his mystifying "mission accomplished" line. You might be able to defend it, if - IF - we turned it around during the finals. But nope. Half time in the Qualifying final scores were level. Then Hawthorn kick 9 goals to 4 to win easily by 36 points. It's the way it goes. But nothing was accomplished in any meaningful way.

Coaches and players do get blamed for things they don't say at times, no doubt. But what Scott said in that instance was monumentally stupid. It wasn't the sooking that pops up from time to time (and did again this year), but hard to find a comment that was more clueless or incorrect.

 

[Partridge]

I reckon Chappy might be well down the list but I’d take him any day over Danger

Chappy's peak was like most players brief, but from 2006-2009 he was probably only eclipsed by Ablett at least at Geelong. His best was brilliant.

 

[peetoo]

Chappy's peak was like most players brief, but from 2006-2009 he was probably only eclipsed by Ablett at least at Geelong. His best was brilliant.

And didn’t we hate him for it over here

 

[PhatBoy]

Here's the planet Earth chronology.

Geelong plays Hawthorn in Round 22, 2014, and leads by 31 points at half time. Hawthorn kick 11 goals to 3 after half time to win by 23 points. Then Scott utters his mystifying "mission accomplished" line. You might be able to defend it, if - IF - we turned it around during the finals. But nope. Half time in the Qualifying final scores were level. Then Hawthorn kick 9 goals to 4 to win easily by 36 points. It's the way it goes. But nothing was accomplished in any meaningful way.

Coaches and players do get blamed for things they don't say at times, no doubt. But what Scott said in that instance was monumentally stupid. It wasn't the sooking that pops up from time to time (and did again this year), but hard to find a comment that was more clueless or incorrect.

It’s a throwaway line mate. Both sides were secure in the top 4.
It’s not just a loose terminology, it’s literal to say this: it’s a coach actually saying ‘we wanted to find out a few things tonight and in that respect we achieved some goals and there were positives.’ It is literally the same stuff that every coach says every, single, time they play a game and have anything positive to take from it. That’s not dressing mutton as lamb. It’s a straight fact. Tying his comments to what happened later in the finals is just as stupid. What were the learnings? For all you know, the learnings were ‘ok we are off the pace and have to improve’ but we didn’t do that.

It’s been happening since long before Chris Scott, and will happen long after he has retired.

In round one this year, there will be a team that loses by 4-5 goals where the coach says there are some positives about the game and that it achieved some learnings for his team.

The fact that people want to frame it as though Scott ONLY said ‘the result was exactly what we wanted’ is truly bizarre.

The ‘some things were against us that will come out in the wash’ comments that bob up every few years I shake my head at because it’s just pointless. Even if it’s true, who cares.

But this? Seriously, it’s a coach saying the same thing every coach says after a game they have control of and lose control of: ‘there were positives and negatives and I think we can take something out of it but I wish we didn’t lose.’

 

[Seeds]

He's not even the greatest Geelong midfielder of recent decades let alone all time.

Thats only cos the other geelong midifielder is arguably the GOAT.

 

[Seeds]

It’s a throwaway line mate. Both sides were secure in the top 4.
It’s not just a loose terminology, it’s literal to say this: it’s a coach actually saying ‘we wanted to find out a few things tonight and in that respect we achieved some goals and there were positives.’ It is literally the same stuff that every coach says every, single, time they play a game and have anything positive to take from it. That’s not dressing mutton as lamb. It’s a straight fact. Tying his comments to what happened later in the finals is just as stupid. What were the learnings? For all you know, the learnings were ‘ok we are off the pace and have to improve’ but we didn’t do that.

It’s been happening since long before Chris Scott, and will happen long after he has retired.

In round one this year, there will be a team that loses by 4-5 goals where the coach says there are some positives about the game and that it achieved some learnings for his team.

The fact that people want to frame it as though Scott ONLY said ‘the result was exactly what we wanted’ is truly bizarre.

The ‘some things were against us that will come out in the wash’ comments that bob up every few years I shake my head at because it’s just pointless. Even if it’s true, who cares.

But this? Seriously, it’s a coach saying the same thing every coach says after a game they have control of and lose control of: ‘there were positives and negatives and I think we can take something out of it but I wish we didn’t lose.’

It was not a throwaway line. Ive never heard another coach/player say it outside a premiership win, let alone a loss in the home and away, let alone a loss when you were a long way up.

Its one of the dumbest comments ever made by a football coach.

 

[PhatBoy]

It was not a throwaway line. Ive never heard another coach/player say it outside a premiership win, let alone a loss in the home and away, let alone a loss when you were a long way up.

Its one of the dumbest comments ever made by a football coach.

That’s because not everyone uses the same vocabulary. I’m sure if you look back through the history of coaches’ press conferences, there will be many (read: all) who have said ‘we can take some learnings from this which was something we wanted, but I’m not happy we got run over after leading that’s for sure’ worded slightly differently.

It took, with no exaggeration, 5 seconds to search ‘positives and negatives from loss says Hardwick’ and click on the first link.
It was a match report from 2014 when Richmond gave up a 35 point halftime lead to North. The same year, ironically, as Scott’s presser. Richmond lost by 28.
‘We’ve got to get back to playing footy like we did in the first half. If we play like that we’re going to beat a lot of sides.’
The Tigers coach labelled Dustin MartinMs first half show ‘as good as you’ll see.’
Boy, it’s like other coaches take the same approach in picking out the good and bad in various scenarios.

If you are expecting every human being to use the same vocabulary, to a whole stack of not quite identical situations with a whole stack of slight variables thrown in, you are going to be left a little disappointed.

 

[Partridge]

Thats only cos the other geelong midifielder is arguably the GOAT.

Extremely arguable. There have been a lot of great players. As great as Gary junior was - and he was - I still split it that I've seen between him and Greg Williams as midfielders. And I don't put either near his Dad.

 

[theprospector]

https://packaged-media.redd.it/kmpv...00&s=43395e68ca2d10e6beb28a8c828b884ede3bc9a3

Bloke should be a comedian

 

[Partridge]

He had 3 turnovers for the entire game so if he had ‘3 or 4 out on the full’ kicks - an out on the full kick being a turnover - the rest of his disposals can’t have been that bad, can they.

He spent half of the third quarter in the forward 50 where we barely went in that quarter - quick look at AFL.com’s live feed will tell you that - and he had 1 disposal before having 7 more touches in the last quarter, unless 27 minus 19 doesn’t equal 8.

So it seems to me like you’ve basically just tried to claim someone was a liability for their team or the reason they lost their game, because they had a quiet quarter, when for the rest of it they kicked 8.11 to 7.11 and he was very good.

Doesn’t exactly look like the case, does it.

The reality is he had a typically good game, without being able to do it the whole way through and play a great game, isn’t it, and ‘I was there’ won’t change that, much as you might like it to.

He wasn't the reason we lost the game, but when the heat went up in the third quarter and Richmond charged, he completely vanished and disappeared from the action. The entire team got pummelled (8.8 to 2.4 after half time), but his second half under that heat was putrid.

 

[PhatBoy]

He wasn't the reason we lost the game, but when the heat went up in the third quarter and Richmond charged, he completely vanished and disappeared from the action. The entire team got pummelled (8.8 to 2.4 after half time), but his second half under that heat was putrid.

And that’s fine I don’t really have a gripe with saying someone didn’t rise to the occasion or whatever but blaming someone for a defeat when for a good portion of a game they’ve been a good contributor towards their team being in it, is pointless.

It’s like saying a cricketer who had a good first innings to give his side an even footing in a match is the reason they lost it because he failed in the second. Yes of course you can point to his inability to contribute second time around as a reason they didn’t win, but you can’t really blame that player for the result when without him they may not have been in the game in the first place