Strategy Patrick Dangerfield

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footy4ever said:
17 of those shots on goal were with three players hanging off him. One having him in a headlock, another holding one arm long before he even got the ball and the other tackling him below the waist.
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Pretty sure you can't do that when a player is having a set shot, but maybe I'll have to re-watch the games in case I missed it...
 
One thing I've been saying for about a year...

Is anyone else concerned that some of that pace has disappeared?

He doesn't burn players anymore. It's not because they're tackling him either. There was an occasion on the weekend when he was running for a loose ball with a bulldogs player about even with him. They got there at the same time. A few years back he would have gotten it with seconds to spare, and been off to the races.

He gets caught a lot more than he used to. Again- it just looks like he's expecting to burn people and it's not happening.
 
The media has over rated him and he is starting to believe his own hype.

Does anyone actually believe he is top ten in the league??
 
Wood_Duck said:
Yeah, very hard to wrestle back any momentum when your forwards miss set shots from 25m out directly in front.
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I thought it was pretty critical at that point. We had the momentum at that point of the game. He had two shots that could have given us a lead. Team confidence goes up, and it might be a different game.

Missing easy shots its something that we've always done, and it's something that has always cost us. It's very deleterious to team morale. Everyone else does good work setting up a mark 20-30 out from goal, and failure to convert just drops the head a bit. He wasn't the lone offender there, it's just, everyone seems convinced he's a 50 goal forward in waiting.

Next thing we knew the dogs had blitzed us and we were 6 goals down.

Danger is not a reliable set shot unfortunately. I don't have any statistics to back it, but I'd bet he kicks most of his goals on the run, and these days most of them seem to be close range.
 
Lawrst said:
The media has over rated him and he is starting to believe his own hype.

Does anyone actually believe he is top ten in the league??
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I think that on delivered output Dangerfield is definitely overrated. Significantly.

Like many though I still believe we havent seen the best of him though. He needs to quickly work out a game that doesnt get shut down so easily.
 
I agree he seems to have lost a yard of speed and come back to the pack. Numerous times this season he's been in a foot race for the loose ball and either been beaten or got there at the same time where previously we would've got there with a yard or two and been off. Not sure whats happened there.
 
Southerntakeover said:
One thing I've been saying for about a year...

Is anyone else concerned that some of that pace has disappeared?

He doesn't burn players anymore. It's not because they're tackling him either. There was an occasion on the weekend when he was running for a loose ball with a bulldogs player about even with him. They got there at the same time. A few years back he would have gotten it with seconds to spare, and been off to the races.

He gets caught a lot more than he used to. Again- it just looks like he's expecting to burn people and it's not happening.
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Is it fitness or his speed ? Think we need him forward more than mid, we need to take pressure of tex as our only true avenue ...I'd have danger 60% forward and possibly more when B crouch back and bursts on the ball where hopefully is fresher and can use his speed
 

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Jeffcrowe said:
Is it fitness or his speed ? Think we need him forward more than mid, we need to take pressure of tex as our only true avenue ...I'd have danger 60% forward and possibly more when B crouch back and bursts on the ball where hopefully is fresher and can use his speed
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I'm just not aware of having seen any evidence of the speed since about 2013. If I'm missing something/an example feel free to let me know. Will consider.
 
Southerntakeover said:
I'm just not aware of having seen any evidence of the speed since about 2013. If I'm missing something/an example feel free to let me know. Will consider.
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I agree , I'm not sure but maybe less time on ball will help him recapture his speed as he will be fresher

Our forward line needs urgent help so reckon we need him kicking goals and posing a threat to help release tex
 
Southerntakeover said:
There was an occasion on the weekend when he was running for a loose ball with a bulldogs player about even with him. They got there at the same time.
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Yep, i saw it too.

Pretty sure it was after the opening bounce of the third quarter, it was Liam Picken with him, and Picken was first to the ball.
 
James_37 said:
I'd like to pose a question to the BigFooty brains trust:

Would we be better off playing Patrick Dangerfield as predominantly a Forward, with just the odd cameo into the midfield?

We all know that Dangerfield is a contested beast, however he also boasts awesome speed, strength in the marking contest and continues to show himself to be more than capable around goals.

Whilst there's little doubt Danger wins a lot of clearances and finds plenty of the ball in his primary role as inside mid, however how much value do we truly get from this? His disposal is one of the worst in the league among the top ball winners and the majority of his clearances result in at best a 50-50.

But what about his pace/run and carry? How often do we actually see it these days? With the attention he receives from taggers and his inside role, we just don't see it, certainly don't gain much value from it. I was startled, or perhaps not so, to find that Paddy had recorded a grand total of 0 bounces this year. He might as well be Scott Thompson really, big and strong, wins clearances and has poor disposal offering nothing on the outside.

Today was a great example of how winning the hit outs and clearances are so meaningless without a decent outside game and forward structure.

Now whilst Paddy has great speed, his disposal prevents him from offering much as an outside mid.

However, like his predecessor in the 32, Paddy presents a unique target up forward. Strong enough both in body and overhead to play as a KPF, but with elite ground ball ability to make a mockery of any KPD placed on him.

Today, he was without a doubt our most dangerous forward, yet he played most of the game as a mid. He had 4 shots on goal before anyone else in our side, whilst we were getting hammered.

At the moment I feel our forward line lacks someone to make a contest in the air. Neither Jenkins, nor Lynch are contested marking types, they struggle to force contests when the ball enters the 50 without purpose. Leaving it all essentially up to Walker and believe it or not Betts!

This is where I think Paddy would benefit our forward line immensely. Not only would he relieve pressure from Betts and Walker to score goals, his ability to force a contest is elite, something which a player like Betts would just feed off of.

With regards to covering Paddy in the midfield, we have inside mids coming out of every orriface. Lyons, M.Crouch, Grigg, plus Kerridge coming back from injury, not to mention Thompson, Sloane, VB, Ellis-Yolman and Wright already being predominantly inside.

The question becomes, is Paddy's inside clearance/inside work worth more than the potentially 50-60 goals he'd kick as predominantly a forward, then the others he'd set up through his contested work and pressure taken off Walker/Betts?

Plus he could still have bursts through the midfield, especially if he's been quiet up front.

Personally, I just feel that since his breakout year in 2012, Paddy has struggled to have the true impact he's capable of. He always seems to be laboring a touch and as a result has just become a Thommo clone. Which is not to say that means he's a bad player, far, far from it, just that he's capable of so much more. He's the ultimate impact player, who's getting bogged down with the day-in day-out midfield roles and responsibilities, essentially the "inside mid grunt work" that could quite easily be adequately compensated for by another player.
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Couldn't agree more
 
Jeffcrowe said:
I agree , I'm not sure but maybe less time on ball will help him recapture his speed as he will be fresher

Our forward line needs urgent help so reckon we need him kicking goals and posing a threat to help release tex
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I guess I want to know more about why we feel it's happened.

Last year I'd hoped it was an injury that the off season would fix. This year I wonder if it's the accumulation of years of being beat up, plus carrying more muscle and being mid career. If it's those things I don't know if the pace is coming back.

I know one thing though: if we don't think the pace will return, then it's probable that we should not match a potential top dollar FA contract. He's still capable of being a good player, but he's not going to reach the Ablett esque best player in the league stratosphere that I had hoped without the speed.
 
When/If we can get the best out of him we will go a long way to becoming a quality side. The other thing is will we get the chance........

For mine he plays predominantly midfield. He is our most damaging stoppage player and as we saw last week he attracts attention which allows others to get off the chain. I also think he has lost a bit of pace, but dont think its permanent.

Despite what some here believe he is a very good overhead mark, so he is valuable forward too. When BCrouch returns his forward minutes could be increased slightly but until then he needs to stay 70/30 midfield.
 
James_37 said:
Thing is, how much improvement can we realistically expect? He's 24/25 now, played over a hundred games, his scope for improvement is minimal now and quite frankly I don't think we're getting value for money from him at present and I don't see it changing. He just always appears to be pushing s**t up hill to play even close to his explosive best these days. When was the last time he actually went for a run with the footy? Its not very often because every time he finds the footy there's 3 blokes hanging off of him.

As a forward, he actually offers us the contested marking, pack crashing option we've lacked since Tippett. He actually makes that contest that we so lacked yesterday, the contest that Boyd offered the Bulldogs, allowing their other forwards to feed off.
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The problem is we don't have many good outside players to take his place in the midfield. He's no good in the forward line if the ball never gets there.
 
- Yes he has lost pace. I think he just gets banged up so quickly in a season. Looked fresh, fit and quick in the first 2 rounds but now is wincing and labouring again
- Yes he is an overrated midfielder. I think CEY can be just as effective inside. Prob Lyons or M Crouch also in a different style.
- Yes he is a very good overhead mark that causes opposition defenders nightmares…and our current forward line is underperforming.

How do we get the best of both worlds?

Play him in Lynch's role. He's a forward but with a licence to roam and push up the ground. Then, when a mismatch looks likely Danger can push himself deep into the forward line. Would still get 20-25 touches but keep himself from getting stuck under 4 opposition players while squirting out ineffective disposals.
 
TheLeftFist8 said:
Danger in the Lynch role.
Henderson as the other lead-up forward.
Tex the focal point.
Betts and Cameron buzzing around.
ROB as 2R/deep tall
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I was thinking about this yesterday actually.

If Jenkins wasn't such a fairy and could take a contested grab I would be playing another midfielder in Lynch's spot.
 
Is too heavy for my liking. I wish he'd drop some weight and pick up his speed again and start using his strength to break away from stoppages like Ablett rather than being on the bottom of the pack dishing it to a flat-footed team mate. Standing start, he's one of the hardest players in the league to restrain. On the ground, players just jump on top of him and stay there.
 
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