Review Positives and Negatives vs St Kilda - Rd 4 2021

[BrotherDodge]

Some pretty interesting responses on here. In the back of my mind I was kinda feeling like this could happen - good teams respond, and woosha24
If anything, what this thread ultimately teaches me is the fact posters on here revert to the same goddamn mindset every time a match like this happens, which can be described as a despair that tries to compensate for itself by assuming a pessimism that, while treated as ”more realistic” by the individual in question, is only a coping mechanism.

Man, I don't know. I'm usually an optimist, but that was a very special kind of loss. Melbourne's first half of the 2018 prelim areas.

Hopefully, we've learnt that if we * around we'll get found out, and we start burying sides when we're five goals up. The grim alternative is that now we know just how bad we can be, we'll panic every time a team gets on a roll and make this a habit.

I'm not writing us off yet- we've got some serious firepower still to return -but how we respond to this debacle in the next few weeks is going to define the season one way or the other.

 

[Coasters7]

Jeez some of the overreactions in here.. We shouldn’t be losing from where we did.. but.. if you told me before the match we’d be without Yeo, Shuey and would lose Hurn straight away I’d be putting this down as a big danger game with the Saints getting pulled over the coals during the week. They had all the motivation they needed and on the other hand we’d just smoked a top 4 contender. Just gotta put it down as one of those games, but it emphasises why the Bulldogs game was such a big loss. Winning the close ones makes up for s**t days like this one.

We’ll be up against it for the majority of the season but that’s to be expected when we’re missing our 2 most dynamic players and trying to replace them with young guys who have little experience in the middle. It then becomes simple to lock down Sheed and Kelly (which the Saints only seemed to realise after 3 quarters).

Weve never been a good side when odds are heavily weighted in our favour so I don’t know why people expected differently. Our turn to respond to a poor showing next week so we’ll see how we go. If we can win our next 2 (which includes the trip to Kardinya) we’ll be well back on track.

 

[JezMez]

Some pretty interesting responses on here. In the back of my mind I was kinda feeling like this could happen - good teams respond, and woosha24 St Kilda aren’t actually a bad team, if you remember to literally 6 months ago. People seem to keep forgetting we’re missing half our goddamn midfield. I know this side is premiership quality, and I pretty much saw that the past two weeks against the Bulldogs and Port, because, according to the logic of posters on here after this loss, both those games should have been 50 point losses. It doesn’t make any sense to assume today’s match is a continuation of a trend, given the fact that, if this was true, the past 2 weeks would look very, very different.

If anything, what this thread ultimately teaches me is the fact posters on here revert to the same goddamn mindset every time a match like this happens, which can be described as a despair that tries to compensate for itself by assuming a pessimism that, while treated as ”more realistic” by the individual in question, is only a coping mechanism.

This one is different. I think for many there is a strong suspicion that we can't win and it's only round 4. We have a side on paper good enough to win a flag. We already won one three years ago. But in the years since we have gone with a game plan that has obvious flaws and it looks like we are riding that pony again.

Unless that was a relapse and we really have tweaked our game plan to something more sustainable, a lot of people are pretty negged. One thing that has changed since last year - people aren't wholesale asking for players to be delisted. I think people realise the game plan is a low percentage play.

 

[illegaleagle]

Negatives

Kelly - why does he handball straight to the ground, is it that hard to find a teammate. Not worth what we gave up for him. Also looks so depressed when he played never has energy don’t know what’s up with the guy.

McGovern - not worth the 900k, a year or whatever he’s getting paid. Clangers every game, players he’s on young key forwards like King kicking 3 or 4 every week on him.

Gaff - been rubbish for 3 of 4 games this year not worth what we are paying him atm. Also doesn’t look like he’s enjoying being out there lacks positivity.

Cripps - cost us one game and his poor ball handling cost us numerous goals tnight.

Positives

Petrucelle - great game kicked 4 opportunist goals which is all we can ask from him

Allan - everything he does is clean and is a future captain of the club.
One touch player and senior players need to lead by his example

Team tactics

Adam Simpson - for the love of god teach these guys how to tackle, it’s infuriating every game opposition players shrugging our tackles with ease, do our players do any gym work at all. Also a change of gameplan wouldn’t hurt since we have been found out since 2018.

 

[KERRPOW]

Our greatest strength is our Achilles heel ...nic nat

 

[Ishmael_]

I think our first half dominance masked how much we lost when Hurn went off.

Our midfield may have still been thrashed, but our backline wouldn’t have panicked. We likely would have eeked out a 2-3 goal win.

We just couldn’t get the ball out cleanly and greatly missed his composure when the Saints made their run. The flow in effect being that Gov and Barrass couldn’t offer the bailout down the line. Even the ability to chew up time would have been handy.

Which is pretty worrying how exposed we are without Hurn. Witherden doesn’t defend as well, mark as well, have as good a kick, nor the composure of Hurn.

Nelson certainly isn’t the answer for kickouts, he’s a tidy kick, but lacks penetration.

Rotham looks like the best option as a successor for Hurn, but he’s raw. Bit of a worry really.

 

[swingdog]

Actually, one positive was Rotham's performance. He's gradually stepping into that Hurn intercept role.

The negative for the defence was that they looked all at sea when St. Kilda came into the F50. We desperately need a lock-down defender. King had way too much space to run into. Their delivery to him was like a training drill at times.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Would you gaiz say the loss was a disgrace and one of the worst in club history?



Discuss.

 

[Avalor]

Anyone watch Simmo's press conference? Can't find it on the WCE website yet.

Not a happy bunny. I hope he absolutely roasted them behind closed doors. It was the softest, laziest 50 minutes of football I have seen us play.

 

[Monocle]

Our greatest strength is our Achilles heel ...nic nat

 

[TY24]

Not a happy bunny. I hope he absolutely roasted them behind closed doors. It was the softest, laziest 50 minutes of football I have seen us play.

Oh to be a fly on the wall in the rooms after the game.

Hopefully Amazon are still filming BTS

 

[FKASC]

Not a happy bunny. I hope he absolutely roasted them behind closed doors. It was the softest, laziest 50 minutes of football I have seen us play.

What does he expect when he clearly lets his senior mids play soft bruise free footy game after game.

He’ll no doubt make a statement by dropping Hill Jetta Jones and backing in the senior players who have runs on the board

 

[Astro7]

There is rotations, and then there is common sense. You don't take off number 1 stoppage weapon off the ground when the game is slipping through your fingers. No matter what the spread sheet says on the sports scientists computer

Absolute madness. By all means take Nic off if he was tired. But he wasn't tired. Thus, he should have been left on the damn ground

We won a GF without NN, Gaff, Shep...and TK!

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Not a happy bunny. I hope he absolutely roasted them behind closed doors. It was the softest, laziest 50 minutes of football I have seen us play.

Kinda disappointed that the team's inability to have enough energy to play four quarters was not addressed, but it was largely avoided being addressed all the way through 2019, so not surprised.
These press conferences from him are pretty much always the same every time.
The other team wanted it more than us, and we couldn't respond/handle the pressure, etc.

 

[JezMez]

Would you gaiz say the loss was a disgrace and one of the worst in club history?

Discuss.

It's more that it's a recurring problem that hasn't been fixed and our flag window is closing while we keep making the same mistake over and over.

 

[FKASC]

Re: tackling -

You shouldn’t need to be a ‘two way runner’ to be expected to tackle. Tackling isn’t just about chasing and applying defensive pressure. It’s about wanting to win possession rather than simply expecting it to be gifted to you. Our mids don’t want to win the footy, they simply expect it to be given to them.

I get the impression Kelly isn’t used to playing with a bunch of guys who don’t want to win their own ball, and he’s dropped his bundle a bit.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Negatives:
- That was the worst loss I've been to live, we were coasting. I thought I liked Marvel, but it's turning ugly.
- Coughed up 4 to 5 goals from defensive half errors, and these weren't under pressure. Lost us the game. Barrass kick to Gov gave them the sniff they needed. Watermans early was a howler.
- I thought I liked Saints supporters, but my god they sooked and moaned all game. Literally think it's the worst I've heard ever, I had a headache from it. They moaned over every free kick, they're own players and then our players...
- They had defensive mindset, they'd follow our players in at NN tap and as soon as our player grabbed it they'd tackle them and cause the turnover and then the clearance. More and more teams will now do this given the result they got from it. We'll have to get used to teams doing this. They also played man on man to slow our transition and it works. So more teams will now do this to us, especially when we start bombing down the line. They scored 50+ to our 1 point.

Positives:
- Petrol was huge, he was best on for the eagles for mine. Took clutch marks, kicked huge goals and was a player that stood up today.
- Brander continued to show he belongs at afl level, was very handy today. His slip was bad, but loads of our players slipped or fumbled today.

 

[Balls In]

This is about as bad a loss in Simmo's tenure as I've seen. Few teams would allow a 53 point turn around in 28 minutes, against a team almost at the bottom of the ladder as well. What a ride

An insipid performance by the midfield, absolutely woeful. With Shuey and Hurn out, there was absolutely zero structure on field and no leadership outside the Fwd 50. We went too tall, and payed the price as well. When the panic set in, Simmo had no way to ease the pressure.

That really was unlike anything I've seen from West Coast since the Ken Judge days of decades ago. The mental weakness to allow that too happen is completely unacceptable imo.

What a bizzare year

True but this performance has been typical of this team for years. It just doesnt have a killer instinct any more. A good win or two, or even a good lead and we switch straight to autopilot. We have coughed up two wins already this year and percentage last week because of it.

 

[Coasters7]

Kinda disappointed that the team's inability to have enough energy to play four quarters was not addressed, but it was largely avoided being addressed all the way through 2019, so not surprised.
These press conferences from him are pretty much always the same every time.
The other team wanted it more than us, and we couldn't respond/handle the pressure, etc.

I don’t think there’s any team in the league that can play 4 quarters. You just need to make sure you make the most of your momentum and conversely keep out scoring opportunities when the opposition is winning the ball.

We can play with plenty of intensity as shown by the previous 3 rounds but we seem to be very guilty of knowing we’re too good and playing the long game too much in regards to slacking off, rather than focusing on the game at hand.

We can’t sustainably play like last week every week so I’m happy for us to cruise if we’re up by 6 goals in the last quarter, the issue is letting them roll straight over us when they’ve closed to 3 goals. At that point is where we should pull our finger out and give a s**t again. Which begs the question, is it an intentional subconscious thing or fitness related?

 

[ghostbat12]

Brander out....... seriously.

Note to self........... this poster JK17 = pretty low footy IQ.

our issue isn’t too many talls. Its not like they got in the way of each other. It’s the midfield that continually gets beaten. Duggan etc are not midfield bulls and Steele killed us today.

No need for another post about recruiters to respond to the above.

On waterman, I agree on your other post. Not sure why he was brought in given he is underdone.

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

We can’t sustainably play like last week every week so I’m happy for us to cruise if we’re up by 6 goals in the last quarter, the issue is letting them roll straight over us when they’ve closed to 3 goals. At that point is where we should pull our finger out and give a sh*t again. Which begs the question, is it an intentional subconscious thing or fitness related?

But it was similar last week except it was against a less well performing side and we had a bigger lead at half time. We had very little energy left in the second half.

 

[Monocle]

our issue isn’t too many talls. Its not like they got in the way of each other. It’s the midfield that continually gets beaten. Duggan etc are not midfield bulls and Steele killed us today.

No need for another post about recruiters to respond to the above.

On waterman, I agree on your other post. Not sure why he was brought in given he is underdone.

I have been trying ever so hard, of late, to be measured and refraining from what I had REALLY wanted to post.... been on my very best behaviour.

Some times, however, the chickens come home to roost and they most certainly did tonight ..... 102 to 82.

 

[CoastersFlag No.5]

Negative
Still can't get over that 44 minutes of s**t.

 

[WestCoast05]

Can we change name of the thread to 'Petch/Brander and Negatives vs St Kilda' already?

 

[woosha24]

Negative
Still can't get over that 44 minutes of sh*t.

It really, really needs to be addressed now. Its an absolute indictment on the team (the midfield in particular) and the way we play the game.

No more hiding gutless performances behind accurate goalkicking and 3-4 goal wins. The light is being shone on the playing group and its revealing some ugly, ugly truths.