Quicky's list draft and trade talk thread 2011

[soreplums]

Krak's contract will average out to be about 250k per year. The best thing about having three young ruckman is if they are developed well they hold good trade currency. Can be worth a gamble if you have enough cover/depth in other areas and you don't have a specific need for something in particular

 

[the woodsmen2010]

Is it just me or is it quiet for us at this stage in trade week?Normally we are linked to everybody and we get no one, maybe this year we will land a big one.....

 

[PieBeast]

i think we will stick with jolly wood ceglar witts &keefe 4 a couple of years!

Exactly
We don't need to waste another spot on the list on another developing ruckman while our premiership window is open.

And Krakouer will be lucky to get 250K and only when his current contract expires. Peter Jess is a tool.

 

[Quicky]

In the wash up of trade week one thing has really struck me. We still havn't addressed our need for a back up KPF. We are unlikely to get one in the draft considering our draft position. I still think this is an area that needs to be addressed. Our one and only option now is to look at picking up a mature key forward from a state league. Unless we want to risk going into the season with no back up.

Besides this I feel we have done magnificently. We have added some real x-factor, speed and tenacity with the acquisition of Yagmoor, Elliot and Mooney. We got Clarke who will either be great depth or improve our 22. And of course we can't forget Witts.

What will be interesting is who now comes off our list. With Clarke, Elliot, Witts and Yagmoor coming onto the senior list we need to find room on the senior list. It is mandatory that we have to select three players minimum each ND, Witts will count as one of those. That requires us to pick up two more draftees requiring a grand total of 6 senior list positions - with Brown our only confirmed casualty.

IN: Witts, Clarke, Yagmoor, Elliot, Draftee 1, Draftee 2
OUT: Brown

The likely casualties will be Dick, McCarthy, Stubbs, Farmer and ??
> If I were to make a guess now it would be either Macaffer walking into the ND or Sinclair who seems to have evaded list management discussion.

It is probably easier to visualise this looking as the whole list (this is assuming out are Brown, Dick, McCarthy, Stubbs, Farmer and Sinclair):

Senior List:
1 - Luke Ball
2 - Dayne Beams
3 - Jarryd Blair
4 - Nathan Brown
5 - Simon Buckley
6 - Jonathon Ceglar
7 - Travis Cloke
8 - Leon Davis
9 - Chris Dawes
10 - Alan Didak
11 - Alex Fasolo
12 - Tyson Goldsack
13 - Ben Johnson
14 - Darren Jolly
15 - Lachlan Keeffe
16 - Andrew Krakouer
17 - Brent Macaffer
18 - Nick Maxwell
19 - Harry O'Brien
20 - Scott Pendlebury
21 - Ben Reid
22 - Luke Rounds
23 - Paul Seedsman
24 - Heath Shaw
25 - Steele Sideobottom
26 - Dane Swan
27 - Chris Tarrant
28 - Dale Thomas
29 - Josh Thomas
30 - Alan Toovey
31 - Kirk Ugle
32 - Sharrod Wellingham
33 - Cameron Wood
34 - Tom Young
35 - Marty Clarke
36 - Jamie Elliot
37 - Peter Yagmoor
38 - Pick 50 - Draftee 1
39 - Pick 65 - Draftee 2
40 - Pick 67 - Jarrod Witts

Rookie List:
1 - Jye Bolton (strongly rumoured to be gone)
2 - Paul Cribbin
3 - Caolan Mooney
4 -
5 -
6 -
7 -
8 -
-> Michael Hartley (NSW rookie outside the list)

It will be interesting to see if any of our now inevitable senior delistings will be brought back onto our rookie list?

Hopefully we see an experienced KPF taken on the rookie list.

 

[HFF]

I'm more than happy to give up Farmer, Stubbs, Dick, J-Mac and Simon Buckley and give their wages to Caff as a package.

Must retain him!

 

[Ed D]

Agree with Simon Buckley. It's hard to say, it's sounding like McCarthy and Macaffer is down to whether they want to stay at the Pies and possibly get less pay and game time. I think Macaffer would be OK for game time if he was fit, not so much McCarthy.

 

[TradeDraft]

Would not mind Drafting Gavin Urquhart

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/125234/default.aspx

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I'm more than happy to give up Farmer, Stubbs, Dick, J-Mac and Simon Buckley and give their wages to Caff as a package.

Must retain him!

Can't give Farmer and Stubbs wages to Macaffer as they are contracted for one more year. Even if the club delists them and chooses NOT to bring them back as a rookie, they still must pay them and it's included in the cap

 

[Quicky]

Can't give Farmer and Stubbs wages to Macaffer as they are contracted for one more year. Even if the club delists them and chooses NOT to bring them back as a rookie, they still must pay them and it's included in the cap

That to me suggests there is a good chance we will see them delisted and added to the rookie list.

 

[HFF]

Well Dick's, J-Macs and Buckley's earnings can certainly go to the Caff.

I'll be shattered if we lose the Caff and we retain Buckley.

 

[Scodog10]

IMO for what Hine said in the interview to work the make up of the list from 35 down will be as follows.

35 - Marty Clarke
36 - Jamie Elliot
37 - Peter Yagmoor
38 - Pick 50 - Draftee 1
39 - Pick 65 - Draftee 2
40 - Pick 67 - Jarrod Witts

Rookie List:
1 - Jye Bolton (strongly rumoured to be gone)
2 - Paul Cribbin
3 - Daniel Farmer
4 - Michael Hartley
5 - Caolan Mooney
6 - Trent Stubbs
7 -
8 -

The above will leave us with 8 new players to the club, Farmer and Stubbs staying on as rookies, 2 national draft picks, 2 rookie draft picks and 10 overall changes to the senior and rookie lists. All of which Hine stated bar the de-listing and subsequent re-drafting of Stubbs and Farmer.

I'm just not certain on where Hartley fits in or whether Cribbin and Bolton are the two rookies retained. If Hartley's outside the list then what Hine said doesn't really fit because it leaves us with an odd number of players turned over. However I haven't seen the up to date rule on NSW scholarship players to comment with any certainty. IMO Bolton and Cribbin are easily the most likely to be retained.

 

[Quicky]

The above will leave us with 8 new players to the club, Farmer and Stubbs staying on as rookies, 2 national draft picks, 2 rookie draft picks and 10 overall changes to the senior and rookie lists. All of which Hine stated bar the de-listing and subsequent re-drafting of Stubbs and Farmer.

I'm just not certain on where Hartley fits in or whether Cribbin and Bolton are the two rookies retained. If Hartley's outside the list then what Hine said doesn't really fit because it leaves us with an odd number of players turned over. However I haven't seen the up to date rule on NSW scholarship players to comment with any certainty. IMO Bolton and Cribbin are easily the most likely to be retained.

You can definitely include NSW scholarship holders outside the rookie list if you choose to. But thats not to say that we wont put him on the rookie list anyway. Heres the rule:

21.1.2 Additional Rookie List Players

In addition to maintaining the maximum number of allowable Players
on their Rookie List under Rule 21.1.1, each Club may include a
maximum of 3 extra Players on its Rookie List provided those
Players are:
(a) former Scholarship List Players at that Club who have been​

nominated under Rule 33.5.1 or 33.9.2; or

33.5.1 Rookie List

Subject to the Scholarship List Player meeting age requirements
under Rule 5, a Club may apply to the AFL to transfer a Player or
Players from its Scholarship List onto its Rookie List provided it
nominates such Player or Players prior to advising the AFL of its
Primary List under Rule 4.1.1 (and by lodging with the AFL the form
prescribed in Schedule 1 as Form 34) and such Player consents to​

being nominated on the Rookie List.

EDIT: So when I have been saying outside the list that isn't entirely accurate. They are still on the list only if they are NSW or international scholarship holders you can include up to three extra in addition to the current rookie list quota.

 

[Quicky]

Here is the rule in regards to the minimum contract length for "first year draft choice players":

4.6 Minimum Contract Term for Certain Players

When a First Year Draft Choice Player is first listed by an AFL Club, that
Player and the AFL Club shall enter into a playing contract for a minimum term
of two AFL Seasons except in the case of a Player who has previously been
listed as a Rookie at any AFL Club or the Player will be 23 years or over as at
the 31​

st day of December immediately following the most recent National Draft​

Selection Meeting.

The way I interpret that is the rule does not provide a provision for delisting - and in effect breaking the minimum two year contract outlined in the rule - to re-rookie the player.

Thats at face value anyway. I'm not schooled on contractual law so I wouldn't know if this could be gotten around in some way like a clause in the contract allowing us to put them on the rookie list after one season, or by mutual consent perhaps.

Thats getting into guessing games.

 

[Quicky]

The rule on minimum contracts considered I wonder how that will affect our list management if we have to retain both Stubbs and Farmer?

Will we just pay them out?

It may mean Witts is in fact put on the rookie list and not the senior list.

Or that someone like Sinclair is more likely to get the chop.

 

[Scodog10]

No worries! My best guess at interpreting Hine's comments then is that he's chosen to not have Hartley essentially outside the rookie list and just keep him in the 8 we're allowed, thus bringing in to play the list changes I have us pegged for. However I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if we went another way.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Would not mind Drafting Gavin Urquhart

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/125234/default.aspx

Would rather draft Tom Sundberg. I just hope he is still available when pick 50 comes around. We should of done another deal with GWS to prelist Sundberg.
Would hate to see him get picked up by another club and do well like our previous VFL 'find' Liam Jurrah

 

[Quicky]

I just had the chance to watch the Hine post trade period video for the first time. There was some interesting information in there.

Witts is rated a mid to late first round draft pick. But he is still undecided whether he will be put onto the senior list straight away. Hine intimated that he could be rookied with option of an upgrade mid season. This on reflection however wouldn't help our senior list situation as we would still need to fill that 3rd ND selection. I think he will be senior listed.

Mooney would have beaten the ND combines all time agility, vertical leap and speed records based on our internal testing. Such is his ability they believe he will start forward unlike most Irish players which begin their careers developing behind the ball.

This makes me wonder about Macaffer. Mooney at his height would be playing a similar forward role you would imagine. Hine was non commital on Macaffers future. I really hope we keep Macaffer but i'm not getting good vibes.

Elliot apparently has the build to play immediately and Hine expects him to get gametime this season. What was it that was said about his DI's?

Yagmoor is rated as one of this years drafts best kicks and is expected to become a good player in our development system.

As for our remaining draft picks Hine insinuated that as the list is in such good shape we could take risks with these picks. Which is probably the correct approach in a weak draft and with late picks. I think we will see a high risk high reward approach adopted.

Credit to Jonathon Bernard too for asking all the right questions except one Am I the only one concerned about our Key Forward situation? I really would like to know if we are chasing something in this area of the ground?

 

[TradeDraft]

Credit to Jonathon Bernard too for asking all the right questions except one Am I the only one concerned about our Key Forward situation? I really would like to know if we are chasing something in this area of the ground?

You are not the Only One Mate - Reckon we Will go KPG with our 2 Live Picks,

Someone like Ben Brown

D1 = Desires Indicators

 

[Quicky]

You are not the Only One Mate - Reckon we Will go KPG with our 2 Live Picks,

Someone like Ben Brown

D1 = Desires Indicators

Any idea what sort of things we include in our desire indicators and how we measure (or quantify) them?

 

[standingroomonly]

Any idea what sort of things we include in our desire indicators and how we measure (or quantify) them?

Basically what you'd call 1%'ers

Chases, Smothers, Shepherds, Bumps, Blocks, Tackles, Gang Tackles, repeat efforts, Leaving your opponent to help another.

 

[Ed D]

Any idea what sort of things we include in our desire indicators and how we measure (or quantify) them?

Things like run downs, tackles, spoils, smothers, shepherds etc.

Edit: too late!

 

[Quicky]

Thanks guys. Sound like he could fill a role immediately if required.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Would not mind Drafting Gavin Urquhart

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/125234/default.aspx

I gotta say I liked Urquhart as a player. Saw him play in a practice match at the start of the year and he played well. His kicking skills stand out. However, I think he is a bit like Simon Buckley in that while he has great foot skills he is lacking in other vital areas such as awareness & decision making. I don't think he can make thge cut because of this. As a depth player he could be quite handy.

 

[the mighty T]

i know its difficult to say why, but was there any particular reason we werent interested in Jackson Starcevich?

I wouldnt have minded taking a punt on him considering our lack of KPP depth

 

[Quicky]

Am I reading this right? We started with 40 senior players and L Brown retired and we put Clarke, Elliott and Yagmoor on the list for a total of 42.

So by October 31 do we have to delist 5 players to get down to 37 to have our 3 picks? pick 50, pick 65 and pick 67 (Witts)

Also does having 3 veterans next year mean we have 41 senior positions available? (38 + 3 Vets)

Thats correct. We currently have a primary list of 38 + 2 veterans with a rookie list of 6 + 1 international rookie + 1 NSW scholarship holder.

I can't tell you how it will work with an allowance for 3 veterans (if that is correct I havn't read that but i've probably missed it) as I can't find the 2012 player rules document if it's even available. However if it works the same as this season (except you are allowed three veterans instead of two) it means you sacrifice one of your rookie list spots. Which might be why we are rumoured to be cutting so heavily into our rookie list this year.

What is interesting is that if you have veterans it brings down your rookie list by however many you have. In our case by two.

You are allowed 6 rookie listed players -2 for our vets gives us 4. You get an extra +2 in the 2010-2012 seasons which gives us six this season. You also get upto + 3 for scholarship holders and international rookies. This is interesting as we had 8 rookies this season. It means that Reed was included as a NSW scholarchip holder and Shae Mac as an international rookie.

Next year if we were to have 3 veterans we would only have a rookie list size of 5 plus upto an extra 3 scholarship holders. So if Hartley is our only scholarship holder that will be 6 rookies in total.

Does anyone know if rookies are included in the salary cap?