Review R14: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly vs. Hawthorn Hawks

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

My bad.

Yet not a single comment on the substance of my post?

Can we all agree that Hawthorn played an even taller forward set up than the Crows?

Can we all agree that Gunston, Ramsden and Chol each played a full game?

If we disingenuously go along with Tex is the equal in terms of mobility as other 3rd tall forwards, sure

 

[Slippery Pete]

The opposite happened

Jiath got subbed on for Hustwaite at half time

Incorrect.

Jiath was subbed on.

Oh Dear (no not Harry)

I’m not saying anything this time.

 

[CrowBloke]

Ohh Dear (no not Calsher).

I had to Google, to 'get' this. Never heard of him .

Did you fail to notice Max Ramsden? Played as a forward plus occasional chop out for Meek in the ruck. Hard to spot a 203 cm player?

Max Who? I paid no attention. I am much less concerned about what the opposition does unless it changes the game.
All I know is that the Hawks came out breathing fire after half time, which was predictable given their meekness in the first half and obviously on the back of changes Mitchell made + a good old-fashioned rocket most likely.
Nicks did nothing to counter that.
He kept Murphy (who had been given a bath by BoG Impey) ON, Tex (ineffective all day) ON and subbed out one of our hard-nut pack-crashers in Pedlar who is more likely to goal than Murphy (4 goals in 4 games vs NO goals in 2).

Naturally the SuperCoach subbed him off in the last quarter when the game was in the balance?

Very droll.

Nah, they subbed off 185 cm Jiath and went TALLER with 195 cm Hustwaite.

Apparently not, according to Scorpus Drugs Are Bad Mackay? and Cromulant above, but I'm not gonna hang shit on you for that. I get stuff wrong too, often.
But it's interesting that Mitchell took off a tall.

I am not specifically targeting you but rather the group mentality on this Board that what Nicks does is obviously crazy.

I dunno how much of my posting you read. A lot go 'too-long-didn't-read', too hard. Each to one's own.
Yes, we are 9-5 and 4th at the Bye (which is better than I expected) but yes, I still want Nicks sacked.
I don't think everything he does has been bad and I try to be balanced, but his bad is very bad and it's holding the Crows back.
What is crazy is when he repeats a mistake from before that just has not worked:
--- it's stubbornness, a certainty that he's right and
--- shows he does not learn from his mistakes.
Simple example; he picked Murphy, again, after Murphy did nothing the last time he was selected and for most of his 100+ games.
Flag-winning Coaches do not do that; in fact, I daresay Coaches who win more often than not do not do that.
Nicks has lost much more often than he wins.
The best 4-to-6 Coaches in the Comp nearly always out-Coach him and those are the teams we will have to beat to win Finals. The Crows are good enough to beat up on weaker opposition, but that is not good enough for me.

It might be fairer to complain that Nicks just follows the pack. Last week Brisbane subbed off Gallop (a wry tall forward)

I can't comment on Gallop's sense-of-humour (yeah, I know it was a typo, chill; just havin' some fun).

and brought on Robertson who played as a medium/small forward.

That makes sense, since they needed to kick goals to win (and didn't, ha!).

We subbed out Butts and brought on Smith, a medium/small defender.

Smith's selection itself was another Nicks-mistake imo. Typically, Nicks went back to the failed tactic of choosing experience because he doesn't know if any of our younger guys will do a better job than Smith or Murphy.
Why doesn't he know?
Nicks doesn't select them, but it's ok for us to disagree. It's only footy. It's not life-or-death .

 

[skam85]

Ohh Dear (no not Calsher).

Did you fail to notice Max Ramsden? Played as a forward plus occasional chop out for Meek in the ruck. Hard to spot a 203 cm player?

Naturally the SuperCoach subbed him off in the last quarter when the game was in the balance?

Nah, they subbed off 185 cm Jiath and went TALLER with 195 cm Hustwaite.

I am not specifically targeting you but rather the group mentality on this Board that what Nicks does is obviously crazy. It might be fairer to complain that Nicks just follows the pack. Last week Brisbane subbed off Gallop (a wry tall forward) and brought on Robertson who played as a medium/small forward. We subbed out Butts and brought on Smith, a medium/small defender.

 

[OccamsRazorRay]

I was at the game in Launceston, a few notes:

• It was TWO degrees for the entire match, woeful conditions, and we've shown that wet weather footy isn't really our thing. (I didn't think we played the conditions very well against Brisbane last week either)
• A very odd decision to go with 3 x talls. Impey, along with many many other HB's from other teams, destroyed us coming out of our F50. Felt a bit like shades of the Pies game with Daicos running around off HB like an unregistered dog. I feel like we could have dropped Walker and brought in Draper, or at least had Draper in Defence. It was clear we needed scoreboard impact.
• Hinge in particular was terrible, and did not play the conditions well at all.
• Hawks fans are deplorable, was abused multiple times on the way out.
• We had so many chances that went begging, but we seemed to be a bit lazy in executing. So many simple run-up goals that hit the post or didn't hit their mark.
• Dylan Moore was the James Peatling that we were missing. 13 tackles in and around the contest and feeding to Impey let them crawl back into the game, missed the pressure beast in Peatling in a massive way.
• Not a huge Murphy fan but he was better on the night than Rachele, Pedlar and ANB, who as smaller players definitely needed to crumb and impact our I50 superiority much better, but again the conditions were just SO bad even for the smaller players.
• Berry had a decent game tagging Jai Newcombe, and with a few of their other mids out of the game we should have driven more chances I50
• Soligo..... obv not great conditions but struggled both a bit to impact, hasn't regained the form from his first 6 games.

 

[rocket18]

Jiath got subbed on for Hustwaite at half time

"Oh Ciao, you've done it again".

 

[Slippery Pete]

I was at the game in Launceston

Are you okay?

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

But it's interesting that Mitchell took off a tall.

Hustwaite is a midfielder so replacing him with Jiath did not change their forwards structure. It was the first time Hustwaite has started this year and he looked like a Calsher in the headlights.

My initial post did not say anything about selecting Murphy and as I stated before the game this was not my preference.
My post referred to the ridiculous decision by Matthew the Clueless to play three tall/marking forwards and the even greater sin of not subbing one of the tall forwards (Tex).

Sam the SuperCoach played Ramsden (203 cm), Chol (201) cm and Gunston (193 cm).
Matthew the Clueless played Thilthorpe (201 cm), Fogarty (192 cm) and Walker (192 cm).

Sam the Supercoach’s tall forwards had ToG of 81%, 88% and 89%.
Matthew the Clueless’s tall forwards had ToG of 85%, 85% and 67%.

Sam the Supercoach’s tall forwards had a combined total of 34 disposals and kicked 3 goals and 5points.
Matthew the Clueless’s tall forwards had a combined total of 32 disposals and kicked 0 goals and 7 points.

It almost looks like the only difference between a Clueless Coach and a Supercoach is that Sam’s boys kicked straighter?

 

[skam85]

This is Caroline Wilson levels of doubling down

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

This is Caroline Wilson levels of doubling down

Could you or any of the astute posters, whose contribution so far has been to point out that my sub comment (which was irrelevant to the substance of my post) was back to front please answer this;

1) Did Hawthorn (along with every other of the top nine teams we have played this year *) use three tall forwards in their forwards structure?

2) Did Hawthorn use the sub to change their forward structure?

It seems a little puerile to me that a group of posters have wasted so much time pointing out that the Crows structure and sub strategy was so obviously horrendous when Hawthorn did exactly the same thing.

*I did not check the forward structure of the bottom nine teams since they are largely irrelevant.

 

[1970crow]

I’m not saying anything this time.

He’ll still report your post and you will be banned.

 

[1970crow]

My bad.

Yet not a single comment on the substance of my post?

Can we all agree that Hawthorn played an even taller forward set up than the Crows?

Can we all agree that Gunston, Ramsden and Chol each played a full game?

Wasn’t the substance of your post that everyone else is an idiot because they wanted Nicks to go smaller after sub but Mitchell went taller? Why did I say last week about kicking own goals whilst posting with high levels of smugness? Tends to come back and bite you pretty hard.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Oh Dear, this thread became more entertaining today...

 

[Ham]

Just an observation, we only made 60 of our 75 interchanges, with Curtin and Neale Bullen alot lower time on ground than normal

 

[Cromulant]

Just an observation, we only made 60 of our 75 interchanges, with Curtin and Neale Bullen alot lower time on ground than normal

A lot of rotations happen after goals. Its so regimented these days with full ground defence etc. Similar thing happens when the ball is stuck over the opposite side to the interchange.

Less goals, fewer rotations. FWIW we made 62, Hawthorn made 60.

 

[Ham]

A lot of rotations happen after goals. Its so regimented these days with full ground defence etc. Similar thing happens when the ball is stuck over the opposite side to the interchange.

Less goals, fewer rotations. FWIW we made 62, Hawthorn made 60.

Interesting, I appreciate the insight.

 

[MRB37]

A lot of rotations happen after goals. Its so regimented these days with full ground defence etc. Similar thing happens when the ball is stuck over the opposite side to the interchange.

Less goals, fewer rotations. FWIW we made 62, Hawthorn made 60.

We had a big period in the 4th I think where Dawson, Thilthorpe and someone else were all stuck on the interchange longer than we wanted because of no goals being scored.

 

[1970crow]

Just an observation, we only made 60 of our 75 interchanges, with Curtin and Neale Bullen alot lower time on ground than normal

Tex sub 70%, early part of the season was averaging 80%. ANB was under an injury cloud throughout the week.

 

[George CantStandYa]

I’m not saying anything this time.

Are you doing the opposite?

 

[Mutineer]

We had a big period in the 4th I think where Dawson, Thilthorpe and someone else were all stuck on the interchange longer than we wanted because of no goals being scored.

More because the play was on the other side of the ground I thought?

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Wasn’t the substance of your post that everyone else is an idiot because they wanted Nicks to go smaller after sub but Mitchell went taller?

No.

My first post was a response to Crowbloke who stated

“ You have been blessed to have McRae who has terrific tactical nous and makes/coaches excellent Gameday strategies and we have been cursed to have Nicks who does not. The three-tall-forward line is great on fine, dry days but Nicks sticks with them in the worst conditions for tall players. It’s glaringly/obviously a poor tactic, but he makes no changes”.

I pointed out that Collingwood went into the wet windy match at the MCG with three tall/marking forwards. Furthermore, I pointed out that all seven teams that we have played in the current top Eight have played three tall/marking forwards against us despite many of the games being in wet and windy conditions.

DO YOU DISPUTE THIS FACT 1970Crow????

There have been many posts in this thread indicating that Nicks is clearly an idiot for playing Three Tall/Marking Forwards as our structure but every one of the top Eight teams has used the same structure when playing us, many of the games in wet, windy, slippery conditions.

My second post responded to Crowbloke asking who the third Hawthorn tall was. Gunston, Chol and ?????.

I pointed out that their third tall forward was Ramsden and Mitchell maintained the three tall forward structure for the entire game………exactly the same as Nicks.

DO YOU DISPUTE THIS FACT 1970 Crow???

So the substance of my two posts was that both Nicks and Mitchell did the same thing. Mitchell has been praised on this Board for his genius coaching but Nicks is a total idiot for doing the same thing.

Between the six tall forwards only Gunston had a critical impact on the game by kicking two goals. How does Tex’s contribution compare to Ramsden, Chol, Thilthorpe and Fogarty?

 

[CrowBloke]

We had a big period in the 4th I think where Dawson, Thilthorpe and someone else were all stuck on the interchange longer than we wanted because of no goals being scored.

I remember that.
I'm pretty sure the commentators said 9 minutes, but I'm confused.
An interchange can be made anytime, so what were they waiting for?

 

[cleanhands]

I remember that.
I'm pretty sure the commentators said 9 minutes, but I'm confused.
An interchange can be made anytime, so what were they waiting for?

Would depend on the play as to where the ball is, so you can make the change without having an effect on the game

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

I remember that.
I'm pretty sure the commentators said 9 minutes, but I'm confused.
An interchange can be made anytime, so what were they waiting for?

Teams make almost all interchanges when there is a break in play = a goal is kicked.

The concern is that the 30 seconds that it might take to replace a player causes a breakdown in the “team defence”. An opposition player can exploit the missing player.

I wonder how big a problem going from 18 to 17 for 30 seconds would be but clearly all clubs would rather have a gun player get cold waiting for a break in play rather than take the risk.

Sometimes a team will make an interchange if there is a boundary throw in or ball up near the interchange area.

 

[CrowBloke]

I wonder how big a problem going from 18 to 17 for 30 seconds would be but clearly all clubs would rather have a gun player get cold waiting for a break in play rather than take the risk.

Thanks for that, and to cleanhands as well.
I kinda thought that was the reason but your point (quoted) is the issue for me too.
I'd rather have 17 men on for 20 seconds than Dawson off for 9 minutes, as you said, getting cold.