Review R16: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly vs. Richmond Tigers

[Mr_Moogle]

Check my posting.

I was one of, if not THE first on the Curtin train after the draft. Unlike many other “experts”, I said we have to be patient and he would reward us in spades.

Since a moderator has selectively bumped the comments of ONE poster (and there were plenty of others questioning Daniel) are we all allowed to do the same?

That's okay. I'll take your word for it.

Maybe that Port supporter McLeod something something.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Burgess, "a depth version of Thilthorpe"?

Yeah, about 20,000 Leagues beneath the Sea of Thilthorpe.

The inner core of the earth.

 

[CrowBloke]

I’ve watched these before, surely these are just the dumbest mofos that he comes across and not a proper representation

I couldn't say about sample size, but he does a LOT of them and finds plenty of ignorant mofos.
Another young bloke interviews College students, even @ Harvard. Their general knowledge is stupendously poor eg
the most frequent answer to "How many minutes in a quarter of an hour?" is ...
...
... 25.
They hear "quarter", think 25c, therefore 25 minutes.
"How many dimes in a dollar/ weeks or days in a year?" <== many cannot say!
Another favourite of mine --- "If you were born 15 years ago, how old would you be?" --- most of them subtract 15 from their current age, ie a 21yo will say 6, a 19yo will say 4 . The answer's 15.

Most cannot do 3-cubed, and so on.

 

[CrowBloke]

I watched the first half again today and didn’t see anything obvious that Butts or any other defender did on Lynch for he or Yze to complain about his treatment, what I did see was Lynch going to ground very easily numerous times.

In the marking contest before Lynch went boonta, Butts had his left arm over Lynch's L shoulder.
At worst, it's a free kick (none given, btw), but it was hardly a scragging.
I speculate that Lynch was shitty that:
--- Richmond were getting done badly
--- he'd had zero disposals,
--- Butts had beaten him hands-down to that point, and
--- Lynch has the mentality of a petulant, tantrum-prone child and an anger-management problem (think: Toby Greene, Barry Hall etc).

 

[Ciao Giacomo]

Was there a single Crows supporter who wasn't on the Curtin train immediately after the draft? We were all excited as hell at the prospect of having traded up to recruit a potential star. The only question was whether we would pull the trigger on him as a midfielder early, or break him in as a defender.

Over the last 18 months there have been plenty of posters who have suggested that he either wasn’t worth what we had paid for him and/or our coaches had destroyed his potential.

I was blasted by some posters for saying we have to be patient with a 197 cm unicorn. Our initial intention was to play him as a third tall (Worrell role) but he struggled a bit defending one-on-one. He has subsequently spent time as a forward, inside mid and outside mid in both the SANFL and AFL. My best guess is his next step will be to take over the Tex role but he might end up being the worlds biggest inside midfielder.

 

[cmndstab]

Over the last 18 months there have been plenty of posters who have suggested that he either wasn’t worth what we had paid for him and/or our coaches had destroyed his potential.

I was blasted by some posters for saying we have to be patient with a 197 cm unicorn. Our initial intention was to play him as a third tall (Worrell role) but he struggled a bit defending one-on-one. He has subsequently spent time as a forward, inside mid and outside mid in both the SANFL and AFL. My best guess is his next step will be to take over the Tex role but he might end up being the worlds biggest inside midfielder.

Sure... but that doesn't mean people weren't on him initially. Those posters were just looking to be the first to jump off.

I think everyone recognised that Curtin wasn't going to come in and dominate on day one. The question marks were primarily over how the club was managing him, not over his ability.

 

[spenze]

Thought it was interesting on the couch tonight where they showed other Tom "only forward to have ever been scragged in the history of AFL" Lynch throwing other punches at Butts during the game.

I mean it's lucky he has all the boxing finesse of a 30 pint in NZ shearer that he couldn't land a clean punch but that shit has no place on a footy field, even without taking into account punching people who aren't looking...commonly referred to as "doing a Bolta"

 

[jenny61_99]

I watched the first half again today and didn’t see anything obvious that Butts or any other defender did on Lynch for he or Yze to complain about his treatment, what I did see was Lynch going to ground very easily numerous times.

There's no doubt Butts was scragging Lynch. Tex gets the same treatment from opposition defenders every match. It's a thing. How well they handle "the thing" is up to the forward. Lynch, in this instance, had no ability to handle it.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Sure... but that doesn't mean people weren't on him initially. Those posters were just looking to be the first to jump off.

I think everyone recognised that Curtin wasn't going to come in and dominate on day one. The question marks were primarily over how the club was managing him, not over his ability.

And if the club knew where to play him, they’ve been trying him everywhere to find out as they didn’t know. Turns out the fourth position they’ve tried he’s excelled at.

There’s also the fact we played him as sub, subbed him, gave him 2 mins against Geelong as Nicks didn’t trust him.

In end his natural talent won out.

 

[FR0GGY]

There's no doubt Butts was scragging Lynch. Tex gets the same treatment from opposition defenders every match. It's a thing. How well they handle "the thing" is up to the forward. Lynch, in this instance, had no ability to handle it.

Unfortunately it’s a trait of both butts and Keane to hold their opponents in almost every contest.
Doesn’t mean they deserve to get knocked out but we need to be prepared for them to give away a heap of frees one day.

 

[GreyCrow]

Check my posting.

I was one of, if not THE first on the Curtin train after the draft. Unlike many other “experts”, I said we have to be patient and he would reward us in spades.

Since a moderator has selectively bumped the comments of ONE poster (and there were plenty of others questioning Daniel) are we all allowed to do the same?

Jeffcrowe had him on a wing from the start

 

[StonesThrow]

No I was the first to like Curtin

 

[BunjiMC]

No I was the first to like Curtin

I actually am Dan Curtin

 

[Redleg Crow]

Lynch getting cited 3 times for 1 games must be a record?

 

[Redleg Crow]

Lynch getting cited 3 times for 1 games must be a record?

And 3 citations for 1 kick and 1 handball is a pretty solid ratio.

 

[ams4crows]

And 3 citations for 1 kick and 1 handball is a pretty solid ratio.

Also wasn't sighted for the kick to Worrell's face, which I thought was a dog act, ball wasn't near by either.

 

[Mattrox]

"... the Crows have enough options in the twos to look at if you're planning the sub ...."
(yeah, key words: "... if you're planning ...")
They see it.
You see it.
I see it.

We all see it.

Nicks doesn't see it, which is why Edwards, Taylor and Draper are languishing in the SANFL not being given a chance because Nicks prefers Murphy in a role he is pathetic at (AFL-level footy).
Michalanney (at his own request/initiative) just schooled Nicks and Murphy on what a defensive forward can do to a dangerous running-half-back opponent.
It's also one of several reasons why Nicks will not take us to a Flag.

They see it.

But it doesn't match the rubric they were all given in AFL assistant coaching accreditation. They have their preseason pecking order they are sticking to and the average games experience they need to maintain. It will be all benchmarks and kpis on some spreadsheet. Changing Murphy out for Edwards means the games experience drops by 100 and below the "optimal for winning".

If they step outside industry norms and it backfires they feel pressure. If they stick to industry norms, they have data to back them up when it goes pear shaped. It's all box ticking and arse covering and every job has that.

 

[Redleg Crow]

ESPN has got it right…

 

[flashcrow]

Also wasn't sighted for the kick to Worrell's face, which I thought was a dog act, ball wasn't near by either.

 

[Mattrox]

Maybe the tribunal was....

 

[conVINCEd]

Worrell should have gotten 2 votes and not Milera. Milera did attack the ball more aggressive than usual but there were part of his game were he couldn't bother to chase.

Junior’s kicking was also junk at times - some awful inside 50s nowhere near our forwards’ advantage.

 

[CrowBloke]

Fascinating post:

They see it.

But it doesn't match the rubric they were all given in AFL assistant coaching accreditation. They have their preseason pecking order they are sticking to and the average games experience they need to maintain. It will be all benchmarks and kpis on some spreadsheet. Changing Murphy out for Edwards means the games experience drops by 100 and below the "optimal for winning".

I've never thought of it in terms of discrete data, such as games experience/team, on spreadsheets.
It's the theories from Baseball's Moneyball --- computer-generated analysis --- telling which players to recruit and their best combinations in a team.
It explains (but does not justify, imo) odd selections, odd replacements for injured players and a lack of what used to be intuitive flair in a Coach eg like Blight, compared to Nicks.

Does it work? Does it win Flags?
How much has it influenced recruiting, decisions and selections in the best of Flag-winning Coaches since Blight
eg Leigh Matthews, Clarkson, Hardwick, Chris Scott and others?
I'm effed if I K, but it's made me think of modern Coaching in a different way. Thanks.

 

[Mattrox]

Fascinating post:

I've never thought of it in terms of discrete data, such as games experience/team, on spreadsheets.
It's the theories from Baseball's Moneyball --- computer-generated analysis --- telling which players to recruit and their best combinations in a team.
It explains (but does not justify, imo) odd selections, odd replacements for injured players and a lack of what used to be intuitive flair in a Coach eg like Blight, compared to Nicks.

Does it work? Does it win Flags?
How much has it influenced recruiting, decisions and selections in the best of Flag-winning Coaches since Blight
eg Leigh Matthews, Clarkson, Hardwick, Chris Scott and others?
I'm effed if I K, but it's made me think of modern Coaching in a different way. Thanks.

I'm half-joking but not all the way. I know they have data and the sports scientists and stats guys track everything. I will have over simplified it massively but I'm betting that after a certain number of young guns get ticked off, they work out ways to make sure there are enough mature bodies around them.


It must work because we as collective supporters have whinged about the same thing over and over which numerous coaches and it still happens. And every o
so often a real head scratcher like Murphy over Taylor happens. And we all know Taylor is close and vs Richmond there was minimal risk.

Overall, if there is genuine elite talent up to the pace of AFL, we do generally get them in ASAP. It's those that build a good formline in SANFL that are the ones dummys get spit about.

 

[GreyCrow]

Overall, if there is genuine elite talent up to the pace of AFL, we do generally get them in ASAP. It's those that build a good formline in SANFL that are the ones dummys get spit about.

I think the frustration comes from the mixed messaging

Form only matters when its convenient to matter

Position only matters when its convenient to matter

The selection matrix is all over the place and at certain levels for some and not others

 

[Samcro24]

I actually am Dan Curtin

No one here likes you Dan