Play Nice Random Chat Thread: Episode III

[Kangaroos4eva]

She’s a politician, of course she’s scoring points. Have a look they all are. If it’s against the nra then I’m all for it. Do you disagree with her statements?

Her use of religious linkages and timing was deplorable, no matter the nra linkages.

You saw my comment about gun laws and you know my support for Howard’s gun laws. I’m more interested in rectifying the societal ills that drive the sickos of society and protect my family, community and country. Gun laws are only a part of the solution. Australia still experiences a lot of violent crimes irregardless of our strict laws.

So short answer to your question, no.

 

[kangaspurs]

Giving flogs like Anning airtime just hours after a mass shooting is not a worthwhile exercise. Same reason why I am not posting some rather average AOC twitter comments.

Mate, that's an abhorrent false equivalence.

 

[kangaspurs]

nah DP he's an ass4ol scum bucket and in no way representative of the aussies I know. He's not ****4n human therefore doesn't belong to a country

and those ****$n pricks better not even think they represent my country or our beliefs either

sorry about my French but were hurting badly here

I can't even begin to imagine the collective pain your community and your nation is going through at the moment. Make sure you look after yourself and your loved ones as your country attempts to reckon with this collective trauma over the coming days, weeks, and months.

 

[KiwiRoo]

I'm glad you and your family are okay mate, first person I thought of.

Best wishes to your community and anyone impacted.

thanks DP, appreciate that..just surreal here today. This is NZ for gods sake.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

Devastating. Worse than devastating for people like KiwiRoo and giantroo who are more closely connected. Christchurch, of all places, that is so beautifully remote from the world’s shit and has suffered so much already. No words.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

thanks DP, appreciate that..just surreal here today. This is NZ for gods sake.

Thats the reaction he was looking for mate. Stated it specifically.

New Zealanders are tough as nails, and like our PM said, we're brothers and sisters, we will stand with you.

Can't wait to see the first Haka outside the area, it's going to be a beautiful scene of perseverance and strength.

 

[KiwiRoo]

I can't even begin to imagine the collective pain your community and your nation is going through at the moment. Make sure you look after yourself and your loved ones as your country attempts to reckon with this collective trauma over the coming days, weeks, and months.

thanks mate. its hard to explain but most kiwis take real pride in their acceptance of other cultures and beliefs and this is a real boot in the guts for us. A lot of us have travelled widely , and from these travels and meeting different people you learn that we all pull our pants on the same way

then some losers for some stupid reason feel threatened by people who have a bit more facial hair , a better sun tan and get on their knees to pray 5 times a day; Just beggars belief

 

[Val Keating]

Side thought. Sorry if this is cold.

When are these people going to realise that terrorisim doesn’t work? Name me one example of terrorisim actually working. Every single time it makes things worse for the communities the terrorists come from.

These dumb campaigners have handed extremists groups new recruits on a silver platter.

**** me humans are dumb.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Side thought. Sorry if this is cold.

When are these people going to realise that terrorisim doesn’t work? Name me one example of terrorisim actually working. Every single time it makes things worse for the communities the terrorists come from.

These dumb campaigners have handed extremists groups new recruits on a silver platter.

**** me humans are dumb.

It works to achieve limited aims in rare cases. I.e Colombian FARC, etc.

Ultimately war, including terrorism, is an extension of achieving one’s political (strategic) aims when the initiators feel they have no choice left to them. The sad reality is that these terrorists are humans and they feel disenfranchised by society and/or the current world system.

 

[Val Keating]

Death toll now 49

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Mate, that's an abhorrent false equivalence.

I withdraw it, I was trying to make a point about point scoring and some average comments by a few people.

 

[Tas]

Are hardcore lefties using this far right act of
terrorisim to get on their soap box? That shits gotten out of control. (Not related) but not long ago I even saw some people on the right try to pass off nazi’s as a leftest group, talk about revisionist history. Something about the nazi party starting off as a workers party or some such garbage. Anyway people are so obsessed with this scoring points for their left V right agendas now common sense has gone out the window.

Crazy times

The National Socialist German Worker's Party was Hitler's Nazi party, it's precursor was the German Worker's Party. Both had very strong nationalistic ideals and were created to unite German workers against the rise of Communism post WWI in Germany. Their initial policies were anti-corporation, anti-bourgeois, anti-capitalist rhetoric.

The founder of the Nazi party was Anton Drexler, who was the Fuhrer between 1920 to 1921 before Hitler took over, had previously joined the German Fatherland Party, a short-lived militaristic conservative party, during that period the military leaders had a significant political influence, so much so they eventually overthrew the Kaiser (king/emperor) where Hindenburg and Ludendorff effectively controlled a military dictatorship in 1916. The Fatherland Party had significant support from industrialists and the military. it was at this time he believed Germany would be better served by a new political party that was patriotic, nationalistic but served the working class. Drexler was an antii-communist and called it the plague from the east. In 1918 he setup a Committee of Independent Workmen, a branch of the North German Association for the Promotion of Peace along Working Class Lines. At the time Germany had many small groups that classed themselves as political parties but had no real presence. He merged his party with a larger party called Political Workers' Circle and it was given a new name, the German Worker's Party. Hitler didn't like Drexler because he thought he was too weak to lead, but his ideologies were compatible. Drexler didn't like Hitler either but recognised he was a good orator. He couldn't rein in Hitler who quickly took over control of the German Worker's Party and became the leader in 1921, changing the name to National Social German Workers Party with him as the sole leader and Drexler appointed as an honorary chairman that had no authority.

At the time when Hitler took over, there were approximately 2,000 members in the party and they published their 25 point plan rejecting the Versailles Treaty and calling for a reunification of all German people. At the time, Germany was heavily manipulated by foreign powers after it's defeat in WWI and was punished severely economically seen as a deterrent against any future wars, however, it had the opposite effect.

Some of the core tenets of his 25 point plan included:
-Demand for Germany people to have rights equal to those of other nations.
-The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to German citizens.
-Demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood.
-All citizens must possess equal rights an duties.
-Demand nationalisation of all trusts.
-Demand profit sharing in large industries
-Demand generous increase in old age pensions
-Demand agrarian reform in accordance with national requirements and enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose.
-Abolition of ground rents and prohibition of all speculation in land.
-Demand Roman law, which serves materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
-Make it possible for every German to obtain higher education, specially talented children of poor parents be educated at the expense of the State.
-Provide maternity welfare centers by the State to help raise the standard of national health (and brainwash kids).
-Freedom of all religions

So the basis of the party was for a nationalistic democracy with most of points in the plan focusing on improving the quality of life and standard of living for the ordinary German people, as misguided as most of the non-economic/political rhetoric goes, the policies were largely what we would identify as being left wing, almost encroaching on far left-wing policies.

The party felt that international capitalism was a Jewish-dominated movement and there was a significant stigma in Germany during this period where capitalists were accused at profiteering during WWI while the German people suffered.

The reason Hitler and his party came to power was largely because his sentiments resonated with people and that forms a large part of the German guilt, especially within politics today. Sure Hitler was a campaigner, but there were numerous people of influence who thought like Hitler and it was probably inevitable that the people would rally behind someone like him. it is why there are many in Germany now that want to destroy the German identity but in attempting to do so will likely propel Germany back into authoritarianism.

The danger isn't being left or being right, it is being an identitarian who plunged to the extremes of politics be it extreme nationalism, communism or whatever ideology that are authoritarian in nature. They are all shit. There is far more in common between far left and far right than exists with centrists, and centrist are the vast majority of the population.

Was Hitler left wing, was Hitler right wing? He was an identitarian and became an authoritarian, the left/right argument is an intellectually dishonest one. The problem is all authoritarian collectivists end being a blight on society, the ones that aren't or can't be held accountable by the people through democratic votes become especially heinous.

As centrists, the only lesson we need to learn from history is that we need to use our majority to ensure lunatics of the extreme left or extreme right are purged from out political parties and our institutions should not be used to indoctrinate young vulnerable people to take on toxic ideologies. We need to educate the young to question EVERYTHING and make sure opinions are based on the best possible knowledge and research available, otherwise you will be vulnerable to being just another pawn that has been sold a story that sounds good in theory, but is abhorrent in practice.

 

[Devington]

As centrists, the only lesson we need to learn from history is that we need to use our majority to ensure lunatics of the extreme left or extreme right are purged from out political parties and our institutions should not be used to indoctrinate young vulnerable people to take on toxic ideologies. We need to educate the young to question EVERYTHING and make sure opinions are based on the best possible knowledge and research available, otherwise you will be vulnerable to being just another pawn that has been sold a story that sounds good in theory, but is abhorrent in practice.

Centrists have failed miserably at that then.

 

[Orange Peanut]

thanks mate. its hard to explain but most kiwis take real pride in their acceptance of other cultures and beliefs and this is a real boot in the guts for us. A lot of us have travelled widely , and from these travels and meeting different people you learn that we all pull our pants on the same way

then some losers for some stupid reason feel threatened by people who have a bit more facial hair , a better sun tan and get on their knees to pray 5 times a day; Just beggars belief

Genuinely good people, in a society that sets standards for progression that I wish our leaders would aspire to. We are hurting for you mate.

 

[Tas]

This Tarrant psychopath is a ****ing moron. Everything he has said is nonsensical. Seriously, what a campaigner to do that to other people.

 

[Tas]

Centrists have failed miserably at that then.

We have failed miserably and will be destined to repeat past nightmares unless we collectively change.

 

[koshari]

This one?

"Safe" is relative, i doubt to many people mowed down in the Swanson st or gunned down in port arthur or hoddle street thought the area they were at risk? in fact i think the choirboys Pelly abused would have thought they were pretty "safe" in the church?

 

[Gasometer]

Yeah, it's shit time for those in Christchurch and NZ.

Spoke to my sister today and her hubby heard the shots from his work, saw the Facebook feed but luckily didn't watch it. City in lockdown and had an hour detour home from their place that's 15 minutes away. This to a city still recovering from the earthquake.

I visited Christchurch in 2001 and it was the most peaceful place I remember visiting anywhere in the world. It was so quiet. It reminded me of a bigger Bendigo.

 

[Gasometer]

The National Socialist German Worker's Party was Hitler's Nazi party, it's precursor was the German Worker's Party. Both had very strong nationalistic ideals and were created to unite German workers against the rise of Communism post WWI in Germany. Their initial policies were anti-corporation, anti-bourgeois, anti-capitalist rhetoric.

The founder of the Nazi party was Anton Drexler, who was the Fuhrer between 1920 to 1921 before Hitler took over, had previously joined the German Fatherland Party, a short-lived militaristic conservative party, during that period the military leaders had a significant political influence, so much so they eventually overthrew the Kaiser (king/emperor) where Hindenburg and Ludendorff effectively controlled a military dictatorship in 1916. The Fatherland Party had significant support from industrialists and the military. it was at this time he believed Germany would be better served by a new political party that was patriotic, nationalistic but served the working class. Drexler was an antii-communist and called it the plague from the east. In 1918 he setup a Committee of Independent Workmen, a branch of the North German Association for the Promotion of Peace along Working Class Lines. At the time Germany had many small groups that classed themselves as political parties but had no real presence. He merged his party with a larger party called Political Workers' Circle and it was given a new name, the German Worker's Party. Hitler didn't like Drexler because he thought he was too weak to lead, but his ideologies were compatible. Drexler didn't like Hitler either but recognised he was a good orator. He couldn't rein in Hitler who quickly took over control of the German Worker's Party and became the leader in 1921, changing the name to National Social German Workers Party with him as the sole leader and Drexler appointed as an honorary chairman that had no authority.

At the time when Hitler took over, there were approximately 2,000 members in the party and they published their 25 point plan rejecting the Versailles Treaty and calling for a reunification of all German people. At the time, Germany was heavily manipulated by foreign powers after it's defeat in WWI and was punished severely economically seen as a deterrent against any future wars, however, it had the opposite effect.

Some of the core tenets of his 25 point plan included:
-Demand for Germany people to have rights equal to those of other nations.
-The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to German citizens.
-Demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood.
-All citizens must possess equal rights an duties.
-Demand nationalisation of all trusts.
-Demand profit sharing in large industries
-Demand generous increase in old age pensions
-Demand agrarian reform in accordance with national requirements and enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose.
-Abolition of ground rents and prohibition of all speculation in land.
-Demand Roman law, which serves materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.
-Make it possible for every German to obtain higher education, specially talented children of poor parents be educated at the expense of the State.
-Provide maternity welfare centers by the State to help raise the standard of national health (and brainwash kids).
-Freedom of all religions

So the basis of the party was for a nationalistic democracy with most of points in the plan focusing on improving the quality of life and standard of living for the ordinary German people, as misguided as most of the non-economic/political rhetoric goes, the policies were largely what we would identify as being left wing, almost encroaching on far left-wing policies.

The party felt that international capitalism was a Jewish-dominated movement and there was a significant stigma in Germany during this period where capitalists were accused at profiteering during WWI while the German people suffered.

The reason Hitler and his party came to power was largely because his sentiments resonated with people and that forms a large part of the German guilt, especially within politics today. Sure Hitler was a campaigner, but there were numerous people of influence who thought like Hitler and it was probably inevitable that the people would rally behind someone like him. it is why there are many in Germany now that want to destroy the German identity but in attempting to do so will likely propel Germany back into authoritarianism.

The danger isn't being left or being right, it is being an identitarian who plunged to the extremes of politics be it extreme nationalism, communism or whatever ideology that are authoritarian in nature. They are all shit. There is far more in common between far left and far right than exists with centrists, and centrist are the vast majority of the population.

Was Hitler left wing, was Hitler right wing? He was an identitarian and became an authoritarian, the left/right argument is an intellectually dishonest one. The problem is all authoritarian collectivists end being a blight on society, the ones that aren't or can't be held accountable by the people through democratic votes become especially heinous.

As centrists, the only lesson we need to learn from history is that we need to use our majority to ensure lunatics of the extreme left or extreme right are purged from out political parties and our institutions should not be used to indoctrinate young vulnerable people to take on toxic ideologies. We need to educate the young to question EVERYTHING and make sure opinions are based on the best possible knowledge and research available, otherwise you will be vulnerable to being just another pawn that has been sold a story that sounds good in theory, but is abhorrent in practice.

Despite popular belief Hitlers 1933 election was not one which had the majority of voters in favour. The Reichstag Fire and the conspiracy around it propelled him into power which arguably was borderline illegal at the time. The Nazis then proceeded to strip back civil rights and the rule of democracy through the pretence of a civil emergency. This idea that the Nazis were a popular movement that obtained power legitimately through popularism is incorrect.

 

[SpiderBurton22]

I visited Christchurch in 2001 and it was the most peaceful place I remember visiting anywhere in the world. It was so quiet. It reminded me of a bigger Bendigo.

You're right, I was there in November and it's like a big, beautiful country town. The scars of the Earthquake are still on show but it's not quite as peaceful as down further south. That's serenity. I could live there in a heartbeat.

 

[Tas]

Despite popular belief Hitlers 1933 election was not one which had the majority of voters in favour. The Reichstag Fire and the conspiracy around it propelled him into power which arguably was borderline illegal at the time. The Nazis then proceeded to strip back civil rights and the rule of democracy through the pretence of a civil emergency. This idea that the Nazis were a popular movement that obtained power legitimately through popularism is incorrect.

That is the problem when you dehumanise any opposition or believe the ends justify the means.

He lost seats in the November 1932 election so when persuasion got him as far as he could go he had no qualms about heading towards intimidation, brutality and force to get what he wanted. It was the enabling Act of 1933 which gave him dictatorial powers, the communists weren't allowed to vote and everyone who attended voted in favor of it with the exception of the Social Democrats, the SS basically surrounding and threatening everyone who they allowed in.

If you ever run for office, you should be prepared to lay your life down for the good of the people, it is more than just a job, you are a gatekeeper of democracy. Sadly, self-preservation kicked in and Hitler was able to gain the power he desired and it started immeasurable suffering for the entire human race.

 

[scottywiper]

Two people from my local school who were there have been shot and are in ICU.

Sorry to hear that mate.

 

[The Other Dean]

A truly sickening tragedy.

My thoughts and sympathies go out to gr, KiwiRoo, the Muslim community, the people of New Zealand...and pretty much any person out there that finds this sort of thing all kinds of ****ed up.

insert ijustwantittostop.gif

 

[Devington]

We have failed miserably and will be destined to repeat past nightmares unless we collectively change.

Empires rise. Empires fall.

Was really hoping we would start colonising space before the current cycle continued it's path. Alas, looking too late.

 

[The Other Dean]

I personally haven't seen that, but it wouldn't surprise me. A few of the prominent alt-righters who have already jumped on this as a false flag as well, which is all kinds of ****** up. Given this is politically motivated violence, there's a place for the political discussion around it a considerable distance down the line, but **** anyone who moves in that direction in the immediate aftermath. ******* Candace Owens, who was named in the manifesto as an inspiration, is throwing out the LOLs and "leftie this' and leftie that' before throwing out a tweet promoting something she's on.

A lot of people are trying to immediately have a crack at the blame game as well. It's just so ******* myopic with some of these people, while families and communities lay shattered. I guess it's the American desensitization to this kind of violence, where it's so common and that victims are nothing more than statistics.

I wouldn't sweat anything Candace Owens has to say, spurs. On any subject. She's a disingenuous, painfully-transparent political opportunist who appears to be going down a now well-trodden path favoured by a bunch of people of her ilk....

Step 1: Lay claim to liberal roots
Step 2: Profess to having an ideological epiphany that turned you towards conservative politics
Step 3: Spout a bunch of controversial far-right nonsense to gain notoriety
Step 4: With notoriety duly established, begin to slowly distance yourself from far-right elements/policies in a bid for mass appeal

Yawn. She offers absolutely nothing of value to political discourse. As you may have noticed from her tweets.

The Digital Age....so much to answer for.

(Oh, and since the 'capital N word' has been brought up....she's also one of those paranoid individuals who likes to lean a little too heavily on the whole 'Cultural Marxism' thing which, to paraphrase an earlier post from K4e, is a concept drawn straight from the circa-1940's Nazi handbook.)