Play Nice Random Chat Thread VI

[Val Keating]

Nice clickbait title by cnbc.

The rest:
the woman, in testimony at Maxwell's federal sex crime trial, did not allege any improper conduct by trump when she met him at his Mar-a-Lago resort.

Also said she had competed in the 1998 Miss Teen USA beauty pageant, an event associated with Trump.

They don’t need to click bait this story.

One of the really strange and disappointing things I’ve noticed about this is that people are still making it partisan, even though presidents from both parties are implicated.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

They don’t need to click bait this story.

One of the really strange and disappointing things I’ve noticed about this is that people are still making it partisan, even though presidents from both parties are implicated.

It's the definition of clickbait. The title implies one sinister thing but then the rest of the article clarifies it.


I don't care about your second point as that happens with every issue these days.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

It's the definition of clickbait. The title implies one sinister thing but then the rest of the article clarifies it.


I don't care about your second point as that happens with every issue these days.

I don't think it implies anything- it's a factual statement. There is no "clarification", the article simply goes into more detail of the cross-examination.
It's certainly newsworthy, there have been a dozen or so instances of Epstein's accusers alleging that abuse took place at Mar-el-Lago, including being groomed by Maxwell and Epstein while employed as masseuses at the resort.

 

[Val Keating]

It's the definition of clickbait. The title implies one sinister thing but then the rest of the article clarifies it.


I don't care about your second point as that happens with every issue these days.

So your issue is with the media and their bullshit and not that Trump has been implicated by this girl and by the pilot? Fair enough.

What the relationship with Trump, Epstein & Maxwell is yet to be established. They could have been trying to compromise him and he didn’t take the bait, it’s far clearer in my mind though.. purely by the amount of times Clinton went to the island.

 

[Pickitt]

View attachment 1290944

 

[Val Keating]

View attachment 1291030

Love Joey Bada$$

 

[Ligma]

you like ksi tf?
do you watch his vids.

Every. Single. One. I am an OG fan of him and the sidemen

 

[Pickitt]

Every. Single. One. I am an OG fan of him and the sidemen

Same here
Saw the face painting vid when it came out and have been a fan since.

 

[7577969923]

So you’re issue is with the media and their bullshit and not that Trump has been implicated by this girl and by the pilot? Fair enough.

What the relationship with Trump, Epstein & Maxwell is yet to be established. They could have been trying to compromise him and he didn’t take the bait, it’s far clearer in my mind though.. purely by the amount of times Clinton went to the island.

There's actually not a lot in the way of proof that Clinton went to the Island at all.

 

[andana]

Harrowing footage caught the moment an off-duty Arizona cop working as a Walmart security guard shot a 61-year-old man in a wheelchair nine times in the back, killing him — after the disabled man allegedly shoplifted.

The officer, Ryan Remington, was on assignment at the Walmart in Tucson on Monday when an employee alerted him about 6 p.m. that a customer in a motorized wheelchair had swiped a toolbox, KGUN reported.

The employee caught up with the suspect, identified later as Richard Lee Richards, and asked him to show a receipt in the parking lot.

“Instead of providing the receipt, Mr. Richards brandished a knife and said, ‘Here’s your receipt,’” Police Chief Chris Magnus said in a statement, according to CNN.

The chief said Remington, a four-year member of the Tucson police force, also followed Richards while “attempting to gain his cooperation” and surrender the blade.

“Mr. Richards refused to comply, and instead continued to head through the Walmart and Lowe’s parking lots,” Magnus said. “According to the Walmart employee, Mr. Richards said, ‘If you want me to put down the knife, you’re going to have to shoot me.'”

 

[Val Keating]

There's actually not a lot in the way of proof that Clinton went to the Island at all.

Sure. https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...t/news-story/e814e3f74228a089377a0645ac043771

 

[7577969923]

Sure. https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...t/news-story/e814e3f74228a089377a0645ac043771

There is a disputed claim of one visit. There is nothing that supports your claim of "purely by the amount of times Clinton went to the island".

 

[Val Keating]

There is a disputed claim of one visit. There is nothing that supports your claim of "purely by the amount of times Clinton went to the island".

Well he was named by the pilot the other day.

 

[koshari]

Harrowing footage caught the moment an off-duty Arizona cop working as a Walmart security guard shot a 61-year-old man in a wheelchair nine times in the back, killing him — after the disabled man allegedly shoplifted.

The officer, Ryan Remington, was on assignment at the Walmart in Tucson on Monday when an employee alerted him about 6 p.m. that a customer in a motorized wheelchair had swiped a toolbox, KGUN reported.

The employee caught up with the suspect, identified later as Richard Lee Richards, and asked him to show a receipt in the parking lot.

“Instead of providing the receipt, Mr. Richards brandished a knife and said, ‘Here’s your receipt,’” Police Chief Chris Magnus said in a statement, according to CNN.

The chief said Remington, a four-year member of the Tucson police force, also followed Richards while “attempting to gain his cooperation” and surrender the blade.

“Mr. Richards refused to comply, and instead continued to head through the Walmart and Lowe’s parking lots,” Magnus said. “According to the Walmart employee, Mr. Richards said, ‘If you want me to put down the knife, you’re going to have to shoot me.'”

pretty crazy, but i guess his shoplifting days have finished.

 

[Kangaroos techno]

I don't think it implies anything- it's a factual statement. There is no "clarification", the article simply goes into more detail of the cross-examination.
It's certainly newsworthy, there have been a dozen or so instances of Epstein's accusers alleging that abuse took place at Mar-el-Lago, including being groomed by Maxwell and Epstein while employed as masseuses at the resort.

It's clickbait and they also know the majority of people don't go further than reading the headlines. People see that title and think Trump is guilty and parrot that to others that don't read. Stock standard from a news station that is anti trump on every issue.

It's malicious. The title implies one thing but the article clears it up.

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

It's clickbait and they also know the majority of people don't go further than reading the headlines. People see that title and think Trump is guilty and parrot that to others that don't read. Stock standard from a news station that is anti trump on every issue.

It's malicious. The title implies one thing but the article clears it up.

Nah, you're wrong. If that was meant to imply Trump's guilt about something they've completely buried the lead. It states exactly what the witness said.

 

[koshari]

this is a clown a show, where the hell do parties find these people.

more to the point who are the people voting for them? a better advertisement against safe seats iam yet to find.

 

[koshari]

We passed on Logan McDonald largely due to the go home factor.
Jamie Macmillan is playing country footy and being paid (quite literally) in sheep.
We had a very good look at Charlie Dean.
As the new CEO of the Geelong Football Club, Steve Hocking will make sweeping changes.
He will also seek to build an epic indoor training centre.
Caroline Wilson is a charming and attractive lady.

All of the above statements are true except one.

we never really looked at charlie dean?

 

[DesertRoo]

In light of the Maxwell discussion, I’m surprised more ain’t talking about this..

Western Australian Nationals MP James Hayward granted bail on child sexual abuse charges

WA police allege 52-year-old former federal party vice-president indecently assaulted eight-year-old girl in 2021

www.theguardian.com

 

[goalieboy82]

 

[ferball]

It's the definition of clickbait. The title implies one sinister thing but then the rest of the article clarifies it.


I don't care about your second point as that happens with every issue these days.

There are enough photos online of Trump feeling up young girls anyway. Sleazy dirtbag that he is.

Structural racism was really a tangent I raised, just to sort of caution that while I have a certain degree of faith in US institutions, I think they are fundamentally flawed and need to change. But I think it serves to illustrate my point, so I will try to give you an idea of what I mean by it when I use it.

Structural problems in a society covers a wide range of things that affect the community at a broad level. It can be laws, taxation, policing approaches, community values just to name a few at random. They are often the consequences of historical actors and social values that are outdated. For example, the public drunkenness laws in Victoria – no Australian government would introduce those laws today (Victoria is one of the last two to get rid of them), yet they have persisted until now. This is what the most recent report which finally prompted change said:



Like Australia, the US is a nation state that arose out of the colonial project and saw a civilisation consisting of a complex mosaic of societies dispossessed of their land, including the deaths of a debateable, but undoubtedly significant, number of people. Unlike Australia, the use of African slave labour was a notable part of the American economy. (Which is not to deny the lesser use of Indigenous, Pacific islander and Indian slavery in Australia).

When you steal land and have a source of extremely cheap labour it makes it quite easy to generate enormous wealth. Of course, that is not the story Europeans tell themselves, at least not in the Enlightenment. (Pre-Enlightenment you are happy to say “might is right” and consider yourself on a mission from God). You say the people weren’t using the land; they were in a “state of nature”; it is not right to let good land go to waste; history is a series of progressions of which European civilisation is the apex. You get my drift. And as you build your own, transplanted, society it mirrors European society, and all these parts of it favour certain people. Again, you don’t recognise it as such – you think it is how the ideal society should be and it is essentially fair, and the problem is that some people just aren’t as clever as you and they sure as sh*t don’t work as hard.

Again, think about the public drunkenness laws. I don’t know when they were introduced, but I bet at the time people didn’t care that the only people ever taken into custody were Indigenous. Of course it’s black people, they can’t handle their grog and I shouldn’t have to put up with it. Drunken white people do their best to appear sober, and the policeman can still understand their drunken slur and they go home to bed. What’s the problem?

I fear I’m getting off topic here, when I was just meaning to give an example, so I’ll try to get to my point. As I said once before I don’t follow this American stuff as much as some of you. When I read about Epstein, the thing I found most appalling was the fact he clearly used his wealth for a plea deal in 2008 and got away with a slap on the wrist when there was knowledge of 36 victims. That’s a failure of an institution. Maybe I’m naïve, but I like to hope that could not happen in Australia in 2021. It’s a tragic dozen years but hopefully things would have turned out differently in the USA too if he’d gone to trial.

Yes, Epstein’s wealth is a bit mysterious, but one of his mentors was Robert Maxwell who was a bit of a fruitcake. I found it interesting that he was found to be less wealthy than many had assumed after he died – some debate about whether he was actually a billionaire. From memory Maxwell seemingly committed suicide after he lost all his wealth? Epstein seemed pretty ******* rich to me – with his islands and properties all over the world and whatever. Whether such obscene wealth should be sequestered in individuals is another structural question – it is often extracting large sums of capital from the economy and returning little to none in the form of taxation.

The situation with Catholic priests in Australia was structural too. We’ve dealt with it by losing our religiosity – these days young Filipino priests minister to elderly congregations. I don’t know the stats, hopefully there is less abuse, but it would be over a wider range of professions. Obviously, there were a lot of other institutional bodies with the same problems at the same time as the Catholic church.

Did George Pell rise in the church through some secret network of pedophile priests? Was Epstein trafficking girls to his circle of rich and powerful friends? Is that the question that links the conspiracy theories with reality? To me the reality of that question is why do pedophiles seek each other out and offend in networks? That seems to me a question of psychology, and I’m fairly certain that we didn’t need a conspiracy theory to ask that. I’m not going to pretend to know anything much about psychology, especially that of pedophiles, but the idea of “grooming” comes up a lot. It seems fairly well-established that offenders were often victims. It would not surprise me if people could recognise that grooming in others, but that’s just thinking out loud.

But it does bring me back to my original point, which is you deal with this problem by empowering victims and ensuring that children understand what is inappropriate behaviour, including grooming. Creating a society where it is difficult to convince children that sexualised behaviour is acceptable, and to keep things secret, seems to me a sensible approach. Increasing services to both victims and offenders seems a no-brainer. There will always be an element of people who say “lock ‘em up and throw away the key” but seriously what do you do with a 13 year old boy who you are pretty sure has offended for the first time?

By all means smash the cabal of rich and powerful who are trafficking children from around the world. But even then, maybe you also need to focus on the victim? Where do they come from? What circumstances prevail that lead to children being trafficked from these places? How do we change them? Unsurprisingly, I believe you will find a whole range of other structural issues.

Ultimately, I prefer my view to yours. It seems less bleak. I like to think we can work towards a world where it is possible that sexual abuse of children is abnormalized to the point it is not a viable option for the blackmailing activities of intelligence agencies. Spies are gunna do what spies do, they’ll find something else. Although, I’m sure the significance of some of the “sexy” stuff in foreign policy gets overstated. But that’s a whole other conversation.

Qanon isn't just fiction.

Its mind control.

Keep in mind these were written before the Jan 6th incident at the Capitol Building.

What are the true goals of QAnon? It's the 21st century's ultimate catfish scheme - Salon.com

All the elements of the QAnon conspiracy theory have been carefully selected and repackaged — but by whom, and why?

www.salon.com

and it cites this:

Civil War Psy-Op: An Alternative Narrative of the QAnon Conspiracy Theory

Followers of the QAnon conspiracy theory have been long-suffering in waiting for some (actual) evidence to confirm the existence of the elusive ‘Q’, or some confirmation or proof from official (ie. Trump-connected) sources. So, many were excited in October last year when a rather senior retired...

www.dailygrail.com

All these strange links got me thinking. Seeing as the dominant QAnon narrative – that Q drops are a secret way of informing the public that Trump is the literal saviour of the world, taking down the evil cabal of Satanist paedophiles that currently run the show – is based on only tidbits of suggestive evidence and links, I thought I’d put forward a counter-narrative – similarly backed by just suggestive evidence and links, because hey if that’s the standard of proof needed…


What if there is a secret, far-right group consisting of an association of white supremacists, Nazis, mobbed up millionaires, and generally fascist-leaning RWNJs – and QAnon is a psy-op they created to build an army of useful idiots, who would help spread their message so that eventually a large portion of the population would be compliant when the American putsch goes down?

Written before Jan 6th remember. The writer is taking the piss a bit but his claims have more weight behind them than many of the actual Qanon ones.

BTW Michael Aquino, who I've mentioned here before and who wrote From PsyOp to MindWar with Qanon promoter Valleley forty years ago was also accused of satanic ritual abuse at the Presidio in SF California. The case was thrown out and is sometimes cited as part of the Satanic Ritual Abuse panic. As someone who spent many years ****ing around with the occult (literally, not with kids tho) I've got no time for Christian fascists using SRA as a justification for witch hunting. (Remember what happened to the West Memphis Three?) But there is alot in those cases that didn't really come to light that makes you go "Hmmmmm..."

Aquino also founded the Temple of Set as a breakaway from LeVay's Church of Satan sometime in the 70s. LOL. (I'm agnostic about the claims made against Aquino btw. There is some evidence to suggest there may be something in them, as mentioned above and I knew someone online who claimed to be a former pupil at a school in the Presidio. This guy was a practicing occultist with a real hate for Aquino. He suggested he knew him but never went into details or accused him of anything. Just straight up wouldn't talk about it.)

Its terrible there are victims to this but we shouldn't be focusing on them, beyond making sure they have whatever support they need (including legal rights to speak at trials (ie give evidence and impact statements if they choose to,) and in public if they want) we should be leaving them alone to get on with their lives.

 

[ferball]

In light of the Maxwell discussion, I’m surprised more ain’t talking about this..

Western Australian Nationals MP James Hayward granted bail on child sexual abuse charges

WA police allege 52-year-old former federal party vice-president indecently assaulted eight-year-old girl in 2021

www.theguardian.com

Are you really surprised?

 

[CharlieMortdecai]

Geez, Ferbs, you must have loved C and C Music Factory: there’s a lot of things that make you go “hmmm…”.

QAnon – cabals of elite child abusers – Epstein & Maxwell – hmmm.

The Daily Grail says QAnon is planning for a putsch – capital riots – hmmm.

Some stuff about Satanists – hmmm.

There’s got to be more than “hmm”. “Hmm” is just shorthand for “join the dots”, which itself is usually a way of saying “I see a coincidence, but I don’t have any evidence to make an actual connection. I cannot join the dots except through implication”.

The Daily Grail author themself says “Okay, I’m going a bit over the top. This is all very unlikely to be true…I’m free associating between a lot of crazy ideas. I’m just saying though, if QAnoners want to believe in a narrative based on fairly flimsy evidence and a network of random connections, mine is probably more likely than a lying narcissistic man-baby being selected to save the world from an evil cabal of Satanic paedophiles”.

Interestingly, I find the conclusion of the Salon article you linked entirely plausible. There is no link between the Epstein case and the QAnon fiction. QAnon is a fantasy that was designed simply as propaganda to mobilise support for Donald Trump. It seems highly likely that Paul Vallely, an ex-army officer Trump supporter who has plumped himself firmly with the far right, designed the fantasy based on his previous work with military intelligence. This does not seem particularly remarkable to me.

The Epstein case was simply convenient grist to that mill. To suggest their was any link worthy of a “hmm” is to impute more to the QAnon fantasy than it deserves.

Its terrible there are victims to this but we shouldn't be focusing on them, beyond making sure they have whatever support they need (including legal rights to speak at trials (ie give evidence and impact statements if they choose to,) and in public if they want) we should be leaving them alone to get on with their lives.

Clearly, I do not agree with this. Before I make a couple of caveats, I should point out that the Salon article you linked says something very close to what I have been arguing all along:

Instead of focusing on real-world methods of preventing other Epsteins from torturing innocent children, Team QAnon wastes its time searching for Satanic, Illuminati-related symbols hidden in the décor of celebrities they dislike.

There are two things I want to make clear when I say we should focus on survivors (I heard Grace Tame and Brittney Higgins use that term the other day, so I presume it is preferable to “victim” which I previously used). Firstly, I am not suggesting that we need to identify what survivors “did wrong” to become victims of abuse. I am suggesting we consider how society has failed them, and what we can learn from their experiences. Secondly, I am not suggesting that we ignore the role of perpetrators, including pursuing and prosecuting them. But an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

I absolutely acknowledge that you have identified that we should provide support to survivors and allow their voices to be heard. But we have to be careful about an attitude that we should just let them get on with their lives. Of course we do not want to re-traumatise survivors, but we also do not want to reinforce ideas of shame. Think about some of the work Grace Tame did which was recognised in her being named Australian of the Year. She has fought to change laws that gagged survivors from speaking about their experiences. Again, we see structural issues – laws which arose from paternalistic concepts that survivors of sexual abuse would be ashamed of their victimhood (and have yet to be changed in Victoria I think). She has worked with law enforcement agencies around the world to improve their understanding of grooming. She also believes that child sexual abuse can be eradicated:

A key part of our response needs to be education as a means of primary prevention. When we focus too heavily on responses, it fuels the unconscious belief that child sexual abuse is just a fact of life that we have to accept in our society. And I believe otherwise. I believe that if we continue working together as a community, educating through conversation through survivor informed education models, we can actually stop it from happening in the first place.

All too often the response to the Epstein case is that it is somehow special because he was rich and powerful. The voices of the survivors, we are told, will inevitably be lost because of its scandalous nature, the circle of rich and powerful people he consorted with who are implicated by association. We are taken down rabbit holes of QAnon, the cloak and dagger world of intelligence agencies, the apparently mysterious sources of Epstein’s wealth. It has come up time and again in this thread, and it all distracts from the quotidian banality of sexual abuse.

But the voices of the survivors are there. They aren’t even difficult to find – many are there on his Wikipedia page, complete with links to sources. We know the intense guilt some feel because they acted as recruiters for Maxwell and Epstein, bringing high school friends to his parties. “Grooming” comes up time and again. And (somewhat) pleasingly, there is evidence that things are changing – a review of his non-prosecution agreement in 2008 found that it should never have been allowed because it was negotiated without consultation with the survivors.

Like Tame, I believe we can live in a world without child sexual abuse. Previously I mentioned how justifications of colonialism changed between its beginnings in pre-modern times and the Enlightenment era. Eventually it could not be justified at all. Sexual assault of minors is already criminalised to a greater extent than it has been in past centuries. To take the next step we need to make its ugly reality visible. Sunlight really is the best disinfectant.

 

[koshari]

Just went into town for tapas. Bloody lovely.

 

[Shinboner1]

Had carls jr for dinner.
Was pretty average.
Defs not worth the wait in line of 10+ cars or 5+ mins outside as these new places seem to require.
What's the hype all about?