Autopsy Rd 6 - Huge first half but Blues lose heartbreaker by 5 points

Who played well against the Hawks in Round 6?

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NewDarkNavyBlues said:
Yes but the damage that O'Meara inflicted could have been reduced dramatically. Particularly when Curnow offers zero scoreboard impact.
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This is why you would be a poor AFL coach.

Coaching is about trying to get the win, however you can. You noticed that Cripps wasn't getting tagged most of last year; instead, oppositiom simply denied him easy access to the ball and ensured that when he got it he couldn't break from the stoppage cleanly. Why? Because the coaches had different priorities; it wasn't if you stop Cripps, it was built around negating his ability to win the ball clear. If he couldn't do it, the rest of the midfield couldn't either. They wore the Cripps 30+ possessions and 10 or so clearances on the face, knowing that 20+ of those disposals being contested meant that he wasn't as damaging as he could be, if he won the ball out to the exterior of the stoppage and into clear space.

Bolton did the same; he recognised that we were winning, and that O'Meara was not damaging with his disposals. You only choke up that source of them winning the ball if it's hurting you. O'Meara fed our intercept defense for most of the first half, allowing us to launch assaults on goal from the back end of the ground.
Cripps was tagged the whole match and his influence was dramatically reduced. Had we have done the same, we win the game. But that's just my opinion.
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... because now, the situation has changed. We are far, far better at winning the ball free, to the point that if Cripps can win the stoppage at all, we now have players he can give the ball to that are in the right position. In addition, Kruezer changes our stoppage set up immensely; all of a sudden, Cripps isn't the biggest bloke in there.

Clarkson made a blue by tagging Cripps in the first half; it was all over his face at the quarter time break. He underestimated the rest of the midfield, and they tore him to pieces. It took him resetting the stoppage arrangements and for us to start missing shots and making mistakes to let them back in, and when they did the other members of their midfield clicked into gear, not Howe.

We still lack 1 or 2 in the 24-28yr old bracket who could steady the ship in those onslaught periods. Murphy certainly isn't the man for that job.
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Murphy isn't in the 24-28 bracket, so you're absolutely right there.

All in all, it's difficult to see how you could be more wrong here.
 

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Gethelred said:
This is why you would be a poor AFL coach.

Coaching is about trying to get the win, however you can. You noticed that Cripps wasn't getting tagged most of last year; instead, oppositiom simply denied him easy access to the ball and ensured that when he got it he couldn't break from the stoppage cleanly. Why? Because the coaches had different priorities; it wasn't if you stop Cripps, it was built around negating his ability to win the ball clear. If he couldn't do it, the rest of the midfield couldn't either. They wore the Cripps 30+ possessions and 10 or so clearances on the face, knowing that 20+ of those disposals being contested meant that he wasn't as damaging as he could be, if he won the ball out to the exterior of the stoppage and into clear space.

Bolton did the same; he recognised that we were winning, and that O'Meara was not damaging with his disposals. You only choke up that source of them winning the ball if it's hurting you. O'Meara fed our intercept defense for most of the first half, allowing us to launch assaults on goal from the back end of the ground.
... because now, the situation has changed. We are far, far better at winning the ball free, to the point that if Cripps can win the stoppage at all, we now have players he can give the ball to that are in the right position. In addition, Kruezer changes our stoppage set up immensely; all of a sudden, Cripps isn't the biggest bloke in there.

Clarkson made a blue by tagging Cripps in the first half; it was all over his face at the quarter time break. He underestimated the rest of the midfield, and they tore him to pieces. It took him resetting the stoppage arrangements and for us to start missing shots and making mistakes to let them back in, and when they did the other members of their midfield clicked into gear, not Howe.


Murphy isn't in the 24-28 bracket, so you're absolutely right there.

All in all, it's difficult to see how you could be more wrong here.
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Too many missed shots against a quality opposition - we created their own positive momentum. The best play I saw was Dow running setting himself and kicking a goal - after they had scored the first two for 3rd quarter - at that point Carlton should have gone on with the game and in fact we had plenty of chances to do so - and missed them.

the other obvious negative was Kreuzer losing his run when he got injured - huge difference between having two big men to only one - I keep preaching the same thing week in week out but Cripps alone is never going to do it - he needs another strong body type to carry load and give opposition coaches serious matchup issues - which is why I find Kennedy's absence a tad worrying - Setterfield isn't fit enough or strong enough yet and SPS/Fisher/Dow/Walsh not yet built for FT front row duties.

Maybe it is as simple as having to wait for another year before a few of the boys add even more strength and endurance - maybe it will be Charlie injected into play as required or maybe Jack or maybe Kennedy - lots of maybes to sort out - before the side can start to dominate midfield play instead of being sort of competitive mostly.
 
JustaBattler said:
Too many missed shots against a quality opposition - we created their own positive momentum. The best play I saw was Dow running setting himself and kicking a goal - after they had scored the first two for 3rd quarter - at that point Carlton should have gone on with the game and in fact we had plenty of chances to do so - and missed them.

the other obvious negative was Kreuzer losing his run when he got injured - huge difference between having two big men to only one - I keep preaching the same thing week in week out but Cripps alone is never going to do it - he needs another strong body type to carry load and give opposition coaches serious matchup issues - which is why I find Kennedy's absence a tad worrying - Setterfield isn't fit enough or strong enough yet and SPS/Fisher/Dow/Walsh not yet built for FT front row duties.

Maybe it is as simple as having to wait for another year before a few of the boys add even more strength and endurance - maybe it will be Charlie injected into play as required or maybe Jack or maybe Kennedy - lots of maybes to sort out - before the side can start to dominate midfield play instead of being sort of competitive mostly.
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I think the club has addressed this, it's just a matter of time now, as you say maybe another year will fix it.

Already this year our other mids are stepping up so it's not just Cripps or nothing. SPS and Fisher have stepped up and Walsh has had an immediate impact. Dow done some nice things.

Dow looks like he'll fill out into a decent size, maybe even Shiel like in terms of body shape with enough pre-seasons. We also have Setterfield, Kennedy and Stocker who could be classified as big-bodied inside mids. None played this game for various reasons but are all first round draft picks so the talent is there, Setters and Stocker may just take another year or two to really have an impact.
 
Dow, considering how down on form he is, is a real indicator of just how good our midfield could be once we mature. Last year, we saw signs of his gamebreaking pace and his ball-finding ability, now we're seeing his contested ball winning and his consistency stepping up. He's six months away from putting it all together, and that's without a full preseason since last year.

If Lochie O'Brien can build on his ball finding as a defensive wing - so that, instead of being down on possessions and influence, his kicking and athleticism coupled with shutting someone down can come to the fore - then all of a sudden our wings are set for a decade, with Walsh playing offensive wing. From there, we need Schumacher, Williamson or another draftee to come up and replace Simpson/Daisy over the next 5 years, Stocker to replace Murphy as offensive FF/mid, and TDK/another draftee to take Kreuzer's role as full time ruck. From there, provided we find an option which either allows Harry to stay deep of keeps us threatening should we move him into the ruck, and we're well on our way.

Still need an offensive forward pocket, a mixed FF'er, a classy back pocket (or a Stratton style lockdown BP) and at least 2 more midfielders that provide other options than what we currently possess.
 
Gethelred said:
Dow, considering how down on form he is, is a real indicator of just how good our midfield could be once we mature. Last year, we saw signs of his gamebreaking pace and his ball-finding ability, now we're seeing his contested ball winning and his consistency stepping up. He's six months away from putting it all together, and that's without a full preseason since last year.
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"Considering how down on form he is".

Amazing how a few poor judgement calls and missed targets by foot gets blown so far out of proportion.

Wouldn't say Dow is down on form at all, has improved significantly on his debut season.

Paddy obviously has plenty to work on, but he is doing some great stuff out there for a 19 year old in his second year of senior football. His work in the contest and burst to separate away from it are absolutely elite.
 
Jeremias said:
"Considering how down on form he is".

Amazing how a few poor judgement calls and missed targets by foot gets blown so far out of proportion.

Wouldn't say Dow is down on form at all, has improved significantly on his debut season.

Paddy obviously has plenty to work on, but he is doing some great stuff out there for a 19 year old in his second year of senior football. His work in the contest and burst to separate away from it are absolutely elite.
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If not form, then on confidence. Last year, he'd have slotted most of the goals he's missed to this point this year. There was something almost steely about him last year, about his dashes towards the forward line and how he took it upon himself to kick the goals. His form is down on what it could be, if you contribute his improved fitness, his improved size; all that's missing is confidence.

His contribution has definitely improved, but that particular aspect of his play is indeed missing, a sureness of purpose, the set of the jaw that spoke from his play,"I'll do it myself."
 
Gethelred said:
This is why you would be a poor AFL coach.

Coaching is about trying to get the win, however you can. You noticed that Cripps wasn't getting tagged most of last year; instead, oppositiom simply denied him easy access to the ball and ensured that when he got it he couldn't break from the stoppage cleanly. Why? Because the coaches had different priorities; it wasn't if you stop Cripps, it was built around negating his ability to win the ball clear. If he couldn't do it, the rest of the midfield couldn't either. They wore the Cripps 30+ possessions and 10 or so clearances on the face, knowing that 20+ of those disposals being contested meant that he wasn't as damaging as he could be, if he won the ball out to the exterior of the stoppage and into clear space.

Bolton did the same; he recognised that we were winning, and that O'Meara was not damaging with his disposals. You only choke up that source of them winning the ball if it's hurting you. O'Meara fed our intercept defense for most of the first half, allowing us to launch assaults on goal from the back end of the ground.
... because now, the situation has changed. We are far, far better at winning the ball free, to the point that if Cripps can win the stoppage at all, we now have players he can give the ball to that are in the right position. In addition, Kruezer changes our stoppage set up immensely; all of a sudden, Cripps isn't the biggest bloke in there.

Clarkson made a blue by tagging Cripps in the first half; it was all over his face at the quarter time break. He underestimated the rest of the midfield, and they tore him to pieces. It took him resetting the stoppage arrangements and for us to start missing shots and making mistakes to let them back in, and when they did the other members of their midfield clicked into gear, not Howe.


Murphy isn't in the 24-28 bracket, so you're absolutely right there.

All in all, it's difficult to see how you could be more wrong here.
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I've coached for many years and still do. I'm not sure you do but if you spew that theoretical nonsense to a footballer you'll get laughed at.

Here are the facts. Jager O'Meara is a mature star midfielder. Not just that, he is their ONLY mature star midfielder. We chose to let him waltz around unattended. This was the result.

Jager O'Meara

Disposals: 42
Goals: 1
Contested Possessions: 23
Metres Gained: 431
Inside 50s: 6
Rebound 50s: 4

SCORE INVOLVEMENTS: 10 :oops:

Sounds like he didn't have much impact eh.

Cripps on the other hand was checked and had 3 score involvements down on his average. Clarkson knew we only had one mature star midfielder and he did what any smart coach would do.

How much did we lose by again?


(For those watching on, I actually think Bolts knew tagging O'Meara would have been the best bet to win the game but he's staying steadfast in our development journey).





#Mod edit: No personal attacks/abuse.

Play the ball and not the man.
 
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Gethelred said:
If not form, then on confidence. Last year, he'd have slotted most of the goals he's missed to this point this year. There was something almost steely about him last year, about his dashes towards the forward line and how he took it upon himself to kick the goals. His form is down on what it could be, if you contribute his improved fitness, his improved size; all that's missing is confidence.

His contribution has definitely improved, but that particular aspect of his play is indeed missing, a sureness of purpose, the set of the jaw that spoke from his play,"I'll do it myself."
Click to expand...

He did the exact thing you are describing on the weekend, yet he is down on confidence?



A player bereft of confidence doesn't attempt that play, let alone nail it.

I would much rather he learn from his mistakes and continue to take the game on, than let mistakes impact him mentally and crawl back into his shell.

It never ceases to amaze how eager we are to find and highlight fault in players, particularly younger ones, yet we don't celebrate their strengths and highlight what they are doing right.

Paddy has a lot to work on but he's clearly doing a hell of a lot right and his game is very clearly advanced from what he produced last year. He certainly is not an elite kick - and he never will be - but plenty of elite footballers aren't great kicks of the football.

It is very easy to forget Paddy is 19 years old, in his second year of senior football, and has been thrown into the deep end.

He is tracking beautifully.
 
thylacine60 said:
How's the give up on the chase by Worpel? I thought he was a jet?
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That would have to have been part of Worpel's post game review. It was a woeful effort, particularly given Dow actually ran past him to win the ball in the first place.

In the Bolts Mic'd up video, he actually guides Dow on steadying himself before kicking for goal after being on the burst & this is exactly what he did when kicking that goal.
 

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Just dropping in guys sorry for the intrusion the reason JOM wasn't tagged till the last was because you had eyes elsewhere specifically on Impey. He was being tagged by Curnow. Great game good luck for the rest of the year
 
NewDarkNavyBlues said:
I've coached for many years and still do. I'm not sure you do but if you spew that theoretical nonsense to a footballer you'll get laughed at.

Here are the facts. Jager O'Meara is a mature star midfielder. Not just that, he is their ONLY mature star midfielder. We chose to let him waltz around unattended. This was the result.

Jager O'Meara

Disposals: 42
Goals: 1
Contested Possessions: 23
Metres Gained: 431
Inside 50s: 6
Rebound 50s: 4

SCORE INVOLVEMENTS: 10 :oops:

Sounds like he didn't have much impact eh.

Cripps on the other hand was checked and had 3 score involvements down on his average. Clarkson knew we only had one mature star midfielder and he did what any smart coach would do.

How much did we lose by again?


(For those watching on, I actually think Bolts knew tagging O'Meara would have been the best bet to win the game but he's staying steadfast in our development journey).





#Mod edit: No personal attacks/abuse.

Play the ball and not the man.
Click to expand...
... to which my reply is, how many of those score involvements occurred in the first half?

You've also painted an incomplete statistical picture with what you've provided; you've failed to mention that, of the 42 disposals he had, 27 were effective (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pg-hawthorn-hawks--jaeger-o-meara?advv=Y). He had 26 disposals to half time; how many of those score involvements occurred before that point, hmm?

I reiterate - seeing as literally nothing within your post actually answered what I put forth, other than my ill-considered first line - that in the first half, O'Meara was not damaging. This is borne out in the scoreline to that point, demonstrating two things; a) that we did not need Cripps to extract or to beat them around the ball, and b) O'Meara couldn't do it alone. It took other players - Shiel, McEvoy, Wingard, Sicily, Worpel - to get them going in conjunction with O'Meara to make his touches impactful.

In retrospect, knowing how the game turned out, of course you throw Curnow to O'Meara after half time. Retrospective reasoning, though, is not a fair judgement to make over a coach or a reasonable expectation to have. It's armchair criticism, which is why I criticised it. My first line - labelling your post why you would not make a good coach - was ill-considered (as I said above) and I apologise. I don't know you. But I still maintain that your post was wrong, on several levels which I outlined. If you want to discuss this properly, I'm all for it.

I'm sick of this board being a bunch of individuals literally waiting for the opportunity to jump down someone else's throat. I'll be watching what I say a bit more carefully from this point, if only because a shouting match was not what I intended when I originally posted.
 
TheFourPillars said:
Just dropping in guys sorry for the intrusion the reason JOM wasn't tagged till the last was because you had eyes elsewhere specifically on Impey. He was being tagged by Curnow. Great game good luck for the rest of the year
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Ed was played as HFF - Impey was his direct opponent - Ed's[played there all year.
 
JustaBattler said:
Ed was played as HFF - Impey was his direct opponent - Ed's[played there all year.
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ok maybe so mate but i think they wanted to stop our drive from half back
 
TheFourPillars said:
ok maybe so mate but i think they wanted to stop our drive from half back
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Impey is a gun no doubt about that but you have a few dangerous running players - which is why you got back into the game when we got down to one rotation on the bench. O'Meara had a great game and was particularly effective when lack of rotations kicked in.
 
Just getting to this game now...
Cuningham as a forward is just the right fit. He's not 100% there yet, but think he'll be a great player in that role if he can keep his body right.

Really liking what Casboult is bringing to the team. Felt for him as a our main target, but with Harry developing into our clear no 1 CHF, Levi keeps a defender accountable and can play more upfield so we don't have to worry as much about his goal kicking. Also gives our ruckman a chop out.
 
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