Toast Reasons for Optimism

[Dockeroo]

Agree with most but will rebut a couple

We have every right to be be pissed at Voss , that was an amateur and selfish performance, hopefully he gets better for it but I think if Darcy were available next week he would be out on his ear quicker than you could say spud .


I was watching some of the rotations of the mods into the forward line and thee was a lot more movement than usual . My take on it ( possibly wrong ) was that Bolton wasn’t 100% so needed to be rested and also that Banfield was having a shocker and JL needed to get him off the field

Agree on Amiss
I think once Darcy is back and Dogga can roam the forward line it might free him up to play a bit looser , he can’t play contested , he gets tangled up too easily so needs to work harder on running and presenting

No doubt that Darcy will be back in once he’s fit and Voss will head back to peel. What else could we do though? We tried Reidy and I’ll agree with Mattis there - he’s nowhere near good enough and it’s still Voss every day of the week over Reidy despite his limitations. One of Reidy or Voss has to play while Darcy is unavailable. It’s 100% Voss and it’s not even a debate for me despite his mistakes on Sunday. Thats how bad Reidy is.

One thing I liked about Bolton at the weekend he’s actually interested in scoring and moving the ball forward with flicks and knocks instead of taking possession at every opportunity and stat padding with cheap one-two handballs.

 

[Madas]

No doubt that Darcy will be back in once he’s fit and Voss will head back to peel. What else could we do though? We tried Reidy and I’ll agree with Mattis there - he’s nowhere near good enough and it’s still Voss every day of the week over Reidy despite his limitations. One of Reidy or Voss has to play while Darcy is unavailable. It’s 100% Voss and it’s not even a debate for me despite his mistakes on Sunday. Thats how bad Reidy is.

One thing I liked about Bolton at the weekend he’s actually interested in scoring and moving the ball forward with flicks and knocks instead of taking possession at every opportunity and stat padding with cheap one-two handballs.

Agreed
I’ve been harsh on Voss but he does provide a contest , it’s just frustrating that we never seem to have that finished product team like , Brisbane, Sydney, Geelong seem to be able to put together

I thought Bolton was very selfish in a few of his early play involvements and could have dished of quicker
But later in the game some of his work was top notch
He looked like he didn’t know how to fit into our forward system

 

[ignoramus]

This might the denial phase of grief, but I was thinking this during the first quarter against the Swans.

Getting completely eviscerated by Geelong in round one with a high pressure game, would have given a very clear blueprint for opposing AFL coaches on how to beat us when we have the ball. That was immediately evident with Sydney's gameplan and ultimately it worked, albeit barely.

So, my reason for optimism is, the team is going to have to learn to work through extreme pressure on a consistent basis. It seems reasonable to expect that the team will improve with more exposure to this and we've been beaten this way in our last five losses by hardened finals teams, Geelong x 2, GWS, Port Adelaide and Sydney.

The Essendon game exists in a dimension that the laws of physics and sentient logic is incompatible with.

Not denial. I was thinking the same thing about the pressure. People talking about how the handball game comes undone under pressure and I’m wanting to point to the measly 68 points Sydney scored. The counter will be to point to the mere 65 we kicked. Questions about our offense are legitimate. But I do think they’re separate questions. On the whole, the strategy of absorbing pressure through handball chains, seemingly shown to be wrongheaded by the geelong game, stood up really well to Sydney’s pressure. Don’t have the pressure stats to hand, though. Will be interesting to see what they were.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Not denial. I was thinking the same thing about the pressure. People talking about how the handball game comes undone under pressure and I’m wanting to point to the measly 68 points Sydney scored. The counter will be to point to the mere 65 we kicked. Questions about our offense are legitimate. But I do think they’re separate questions. On the whole, the strategy of absorbing pressure through handball chains, seemingly shown to be wrongheaded by the geelong game, stood up really well to Sydney’s pressure. Don’t have the pressure stats to hand, though. Will be interesting to see what they were.

It only stood up because Sydney moved the ball slowly and their forward line entry method and potency was a shadow of Geelong's. When Geelong forced a turnover they took off, Sydney went more methodical

Round 1 - we conceded 55 inside 50s and 17 marks inside 50 and 23 goals
Round 2 - we conceded an identical 55 inside 50s but only 9 marks inside 50 and 9 goals

The game plan will not stack up against teams that move the ball like GWS, Geelong and Hawks. I'm even worried about the likes of Adelaide and North



Edit: my bad I just realised this was the optimism thread - sorry and please disregard

 

[mattis117]

Such an easy target, Pat Voss - the guy on minimum chips probably $110k plus match payments. Yeah he missed a couple of set shots he should have scored and the cross field kick was awful but what about all the others?
What did you think of the following aspects of the game:

• Serong and Brayshaw getting less than 20 touches each while Jordon had 10 clearances
• Amiss being pretty much invisible again
• Frederick doing nothing all game apart from missing a simple set shot literally in front of the goals - is that not a coach killer too?
• Cox embarrassing effort against amartey with the game on the line
• Sharp with his awful game awareness just bombing it long and aimlessly every single match
• the coach playing Serong in the forward line for the second game in a row to no effect while we were getting monstered out of the middle

Sydney missing two AA midfielders to top it all off.

Let’s just ease off a bit on the Voss criticism after one game he’s played this year, and start directing some well overdue scrutiny at guys paid 8 or 10 times his salary. Voss is no world beater and his butchering of the ball was massively frustrating but at least he attacked the ball with intent. Jye Amiss could do a lot worse than showing some similar levels of aggression on the field.

Brennan Cox had looked like a state league player since the day he signed that 6 year extension a couple of years ago. At what point will the optimists start pointing the finger at some of these guys?

Yes, I'm being harsh on Voss because I like everyone else have to deal with the emotion of it all. I pick on Voss because he made multiple critical mistakes and played in what I perceived to be a selfish manner. Not just in the last quarter but for the whole game. He had opportunity to make passes inside 50 early on and chose to take the shot from 55. He doesn't have the accuracy for that.

Would I drop Voss, no, not until Darcy returns. However, he needs to understand and play within his limitations.

• On the others, I thought Serong and Brayshaw were well held by Sydney but are lacking support in midfield atm.
• I thought Amiss was not great for most of the game but had a great last quarter.
• Frederick didn't do nearly enough but he knows how to play AFL and didn't make critical errors.
• Cox is getting a bit more heat than he deserves, last contest was obviously terrible, but he made a contribution throughout the game. Giving him a bit of a leash as he is proven quality. He needs to improve, clearly.
• Sharp, clearly not contributing enough but while he has a tendency to bomb the ball, at least he has bombs it to the safe spot deep in the forward line. I have been vocal through pre-season that Sharp IMO is not in our best team.
• Serong was getting tagged out of the game, they had to try something.

To summarise all that, at least these guys understand the gameplan and specifically where not to kick the ball. Voss trying to be a hero and kick the ball to centre half forward cost us the game. He needs to be better than that. Cat. 10 mistake.

 

[ignoramus]

It only stood up because Sydney moved the ball slowly and their forward line entry method and potency was a shadow of Geelong's. When Geelong forced a turnover they took off, Sydney went more methodical

Round 1 - we conceded 55 inside 50s and 17 marks inside 50 and 23 goals
Round 2 - we conceded an identical 55 inside 50s but only 9 marks inside 50 and 9 goals

The game plan will not stack up against teams that move the ball like GWS, Geelong and Hawks. I'm even worried about the likes of Adelaide and North



Edit: my bad I just realised this was the optimism thread - sorry and please disregard

No, this is good, because it gives me the chance to clarify two things:

1) I have no interest in defending or attacking game plans, winning arguments about whether X game plan will stack up, etc. My interest is much more in dispassionate analysis of what is going on. That’s why I was originally planning on posting it in the Strategy and Game Plan thread.

2) I am very skeptical of the very idea of “game plan”, or at least of the way that term gets used to account for what’s going on. I could elaborate on that, but will leave it for now. The upshot though is that I was not talking about the "game plan”. I was talking about a specific strategy or technique for dealing with a particular problem or situation on field: pressure around the ball at stoppages and also at defensive contests inside our back 50 (though thee strategy is not quite the same for each). You are right that absorbing pressure through a chain of handballs is not very effective when the oppo is taking off having pounced on a turnover. But that’s not because the strategy is not fit for purpose, but rather because the situation/problem is at that point different: of course, waiting for a handball receive at the moment the oppo is in possession is a really ineffective (idiotic) strategy, and of course no one does that.

So the question (for me) is not whether the “game plan” stacks up, but one (among others) of the extent to which preferred positioning leaves players out of position to counter the attack from turnover (a tactical problem), or one of how well equipped players are to react to the change in situation (a coaching, but also an experience problem).

 

[ignoramus]

Sharp, clearly not contributing enough but while he has a tendency to bomb the ball, at least he has bombs it to the safe spot deep in the forward line. I have been vocal through pre-season that Sharp IMO is not in our best team

Sharp took a hit at one point (corky?) and went off to get treatment. I was super critical of his chase pressure, but on reflection I think he was playing through a fair bit of discomfort.

 

[Dockeroo]

NOD looks like he’s going to become a proper player at this level. Thats one positive. He still need to try get his kicking up to even an average standard then he’ll be very effective.

On a related note - we sailed a bit close to the wind for my liking when it came to potentially losing Nod to a rival club last season. Would have been criminal to lose a player with that ceiling given we were happy to give certain other players 2 year contracts in the last season or two that are nowhere near NODs ability or ceiling. Anyway looks like we got away with that one so onward and upwards for him as a freo player.

 

[summerthebat]

Yeah, really alarming that we prioritised signing Banfield & Wagner before getting to O'Driscoll. He had an extremely well-rounded game against the swans, with good clearance numbers, metres gained, inside and rebound 50's.

 

[EastcoastDocker]

NOD looks like he’s going to become a proper player at this level. Thats one positive. He still need to try get his kicking up to even an average standard then he’ll be very effective.

On a related note - we sailed a bit close to the wind for my liking when it came to potentially losing Nod to a rival club last season. Would have been criminal to lose a player with that ceiling given we were happy to give certain other players 2 year contracts in the last season or two that are nowhere near NODs ability or ceiling. Anyway looks like we got away with that one so onward and upwards for him as a freo player.

NOD might spray a few kicks but 3 things i love about his kicking is that he moves the ball on quick, hes creative with his kicks and the ball goes from point A to point B in a hurry.

who else can we really say that about? youngie, chappy? Serong has some shockers but as far as those 3 points go he's pretty good. It feels like you can say those things about half the hawks team.

 

[GingerDocker]

NOD runs lines that are quite unique.

He often takes his first few steps as if he is a right footer and then steps off his right foot to change his running angle back to that of a lefty. This seems to give him a step or two on his opponents and gives him the opportunity to go from inside the contest to outside seamlessly.

This, combined with his long gait, gives the impression he will be very damaging player at his peak.

Not sure if this makes sense but it's the only way I can describe it.

 

[mightymouse75]

This might the denial phase of grief, but I was thinking this during the first quarter against the Swans.

Getting completely eviscerated by Geelong in round one with a high pressure game, would have given a very clear blueprint for opposing AFL coaches on how to beat us when we have the ball. That was immediately evident with Sydney's gameplan and ultimately it worked, albeit barely.

So, my reason for optimism is, the team is going to have to learn to work through extreme pressure on a consistent basis. It seems reasonable to expect that the team will improve with more exposure to this and we've been beaten this way in our last five losses by hardened finals teams, Geelong x 2, GWS, Port Adelaide and Sydney.

The Essendon game exists in a dimension that the laws of physics and sentient logic is incompatible with.

This has been our game plan forever.
It's why we haven't players finals since 2022.
It's obviously painful to watch unfold game after game.

 

[mightymouse75]

NOD runs lines that are quite unique.

He often takes his first few steps as if he is a right footer and then steps off his right foot to change his running angle back to that of a lefty. This seems to give him a step or two on his opponents and gives him the opportunity to go from inside the contest to outside seamlessly.

This, combined with his long gait, gives the impression he will be very damaging player at his peak.

Not sure if this makes sense but it's the only way I can describe it.

I have noticed the unorthodoxy of his running & weaving.


Your description is spot on my man

 

[Freomaniac]

Tracy kicked 4 goals and 1 behind from 5 shots.

 

[poshman]

NOD runs lines that are quite unique.

He often takes his first few steps as if he is a right footer and then steps off his right foot to change his running angle back to that of a lefty. This seems to give him a step or two on his opponents and gives him the opportunity to go from inside the contest to outside seamlessly.

This, combined with his long gait, gives the impression he will be very damaging player at his peak.

Not sure if this makes sense but it's the only way I can describe it.

Yes and the way he does it moving forward catches the opponents off guard and opens the game up for us. He is almost in the feed him the ball category for mine based on his willingness to go direct at goals.

 

[poshman]

Yes, I'm being harsh on Voss because I like everyone else have to deal with the emotion of it all. I pick on Voss because he made multiple critical mistakes and played in what I perceived to be a selfish manner. Not just in the last quarter but for the whole game. He had opportunity to make passes inside 50 early on and chose to take the shot from 55. He doesn't have the accuracy for that.

Would I drop Voss, no, not until Darcy returns. However, he needs to understand and play within his limitations.

• On the others, I thought Serong and Brayshaw were well held by Sydney but are lacking support in midfield atm.
• I thought Amiss was not great for most of the game but had a great last quarter.
• Frederick didn't do nearly enough but he knows how to play AFL and didn't make critical errors.
• Cox is getting a bit more heat than he deserves, last contest was obviously terrible, but he made a contribution throughout the game. Giving him a bit of a leash as he is proven quality. He needs to improve, clearly.
• Sharp, clearly not contributing enough but while he has a tendency to bomb the ball, at least he has bombs it to the safe spot deep in the forward line. I have been vocal through pre-season that Sharp IMO is not in our best team.
• Serong was getting tagged out of the game, they had to try something.

To summarise all that, at least these guys understand the gameplan and specifically where not to kick the ball. Voss trying to be a hero and kick the ball to centre half forward cost us the game. He needs to be better than that. Cat. 10 mistake.

Burning players out on leads is a killer. Not only do we leave relatively easy marks and shots on goal on the table, we miss the opportunity to build confidence and cohesion in the team. For all the talk of Amiss not doing enough, he has been burnt in goal scoring positions 5-6 times in two games. Each time he has had 5-10m on an opponent. Which means he has had a block or run patterns for the reward and neither has been rewarded. It is dumb football.

Wagner has had a decent start to the year. Yet he burned Ras on a lead in the first or second quarter. Ras gave a beautiful lead and should have had the ball at the 45 - 50m mark. Could have turned and passed or taken a shot, Instead we go long to a predictable contest. It isn't smart football or good team football.

The positive is that these are things that could be seen on tape. Clark also left two easy shots on goal on the table to shoot from just outside fifty. I am all for going for it if there isn't a player wide open 35m out. There is a line but these guys are good enough to walk it.

 

[Madas]

Burning players out on leads is a killer. Not only do we leave relatively easy marks and shots on goal on the table, we miss the opportunity to build confidence and cohesion in the team. For all the talk of Amiss not doing enough, he has been burnt in goal scoring positions 5-6 times in two games. Each time he has had 5-10m on an opponent. Which means he has had a block or run patterns for the reward and neither has been rewarded. It is dumb football.

Wagner has had a decent start to the year. Yet he burned Ras on a lead in the first or second quarter. Ras gave a beautiful lead and should have had the ball at the 45 - 50m mark. Could have turned and passed or taken a shot, Instead we go long to a predictable contest. It isn't smart football or good team football.

The positive is that these are things that could be seen on tape. Clark also left two easy shots on goal on the table to shoot from just outside fifty. I am all for going for it if there isn't a player wide open 35m out. There is a line but these guys are good enough to walk it.

Thought bubble
Given Sharp isn’t a good field kick and Wagner is how about swapping their positions and have Wagner delivering into the 50?

Not sure on Sharps defensive game but he could run it out of defence ?

 

[Rhufus]

Thought bubble
Given Sharp isn’t a good field kick and Wagner is how about swapping their positions and have Wagner delivering into the 50?

Not sure on Sharps defensive game but he could run it out of defence ?

Yep, put a good kick on the wing. Not sure its Wagner but like your thinking. What about Clark, Walker, Freddy, Chappie? We need elite kickers in that centre line and we only so far have one, Young.

 

[fnerd]

Outside our next that is Murphy Reid There is no optimism… not until we get rid of that wanna be mad scientist that parades as our current coach .

Blokes lost the plot going down the rabbit hole of his own game plan and “process”

 

[poshman]

We get our first win this weekend!

And if not Longmuir would want to win the next six to keep his job.

Looking forward to a 6-7 goal win!

 

[BeinPurplenGreen]

Ayo, at least we're not Carlton, ay?

Also the mighty Aish is an emergency this week, clearly a big big ups to my gentle yet persistent promotion of him as his BigFooty Freo Board promoter. At this rate, with my effective support and my track record of proven results as a Freo player promoter, HAishy should be a shoe-in for a start in round 17...

 

[poshman]

Ayo, at least we're not Carlton, ay?

Also the mighty Aish is an emergency this week, clearly a big big ups to my gentle yet persistent promotion of him as his BigFooty Freo Board promoter. At this rate, with my effective support and my track record of proven results as a Freo player promoter, HAishy should be a shoe-in for a start in round 17...

If much prefer him than Worner.

 

[Purple Jesus]

After feeding AI models far too much data for the entire AFL, historical demographic premiership data and the current state and talent of every list for every club, here’s the definitive prediction for our flag(s) window.

 

[mayne iac]

M Reid paying well for the Allan medal

Obviously

 

[Joao]

After feeding AI models far too much data for the entire AFL, historical demographic premiership data and the current state and talent of every list for every club, here’s the definitive prediction for our flag(s) window.

View attachment 2264782

Looks about right, tbh. Most the current team would be 26-30 at that time.