Opinion Recruiting and List Management Team: Hamish Ogilvie, Justin Reid & Co

[Harris1991]

Do we have a first round pick, drafted by us, on our entire list who is actually playing consistent AFL standard football right now, let alone being match winners, competing for all-Australian nods etc like first rounders are supposed to?

Thilthorpe - injured, so N/A. Has still never played consistently good AFL football at any point though. Logan McDonald says hi. All is not lost here, but he ain’t pick 2 in a redraft done today and you’re kidding yourself if you even think he’s pick 5.

Pedlar - nope, looks a horrid pick and he can’t even dominate at SANFL level. The next million dollar man Max Holmes says hi.

Chayce - nope, a monumentally disastrous pick. Future Brownlow medallist Z Butters says hi.

Ned - nope, a monumentally disastrous pick. Rowbottom says hi. Even Sparrow would’ve been nice. Bobby Hill anyone? Even Duursma would be a massive upgrade on this dud.

Smith - nope, and hasn’t for 7 years. Thank god he’s been elevated to the leadership group to set elite standards though.

Fogarty - sadly, nope

Milera - N/A (future hall of famer Charlie Curnow says hi)

Cook - nope (and yes, Cook was a first rounder)

Rachele - hmmm I mean, he’s AFL standard, but he’s certainly not ripping games apart and the lack of chasing, selfishness and now a blatant fear of potential contact when stepping under a ball is pretty concerning. Wanganeen-Milera, who is already one of the absolute premier outside players in the AFL, says hi.

Michalanney - yes, but we needed Sydney to turn him into a first rounder for us by bidding. Imagine having a competent recruiting team like them

Oscar Ryan - we’ll never know this year what Oscar can do because the awe-inspiring newly minted leader Brodie Smith has this spot in the team so how could we possibly debut this kid. We’re trying to win now you see, not think about the future. It’s going great. NA.

Dan Curtin - again, let’s trade up and pump this up as a massive coup, then play all of Smith, Borlase, Butts, Sholl, Murphy and McHenry over him whenever we can. NA.

Charlie Edwards - can’t even get near it at SANFL level at this point but too early to judge. No.


Gallucci, McAsey, Doedee and Lever are the other firsts selected during this reign of terror. Lever was actually a great pick, but, sensibly, he jumped ship and got a flag out of it. Don’t hurt your eyes by looking up who got picked after Gallucci and McAsey. “Easy in hindsight” though. Lol. No foresight required in recruiting apparently.

#sackthismuppet#sackthismuppet

Great post. I didn't realize Cook was a 1st rounder - ouch, brutal.

You should send this into 5AA. At least Rowe is one of the few in this state who is willing to raise this issue.

After reading this if Ogilvie (Ricchiuto and Reid) are still at the club next year how can you still pay for a membership. Disgusting.

 

[Greenfinger]

Are we still relying on the computer nerd moneyball guy ( I forget his name) . Feels like we are obsessed with the diamond in the rough doing the unexpected approach with disastrous results

 

[BunjiMac]

It hilarious listening to the Hamish supporters who want to claim every speck of success but have an excuse for every single failure.

You can't have it both ways.

Any objective observer can see how poorly he's performed and the results don't lie.

As a professional recruiter you have to live and die by how the player actually turns out, and not how well you thought they were playing in their junior year, any fool off the street can do that.

There are levels to the recruitment game and Hamish is close to bottom.

 

[ThePrideOf]

He’s rubbish! Jobs for the boys! Corrupt and insipid at the top

 

[ThePrideOf]

Where are the KPIs like all Australian or even all Australian nominee or rising star etc

 

[Pugsley]

Thanks Haggis. It's been good but we are going to move in a new direction now.

 

[Samcro24]

Thanks Haggis. It's been good but we are going to move in a new direction now.

I think you mean it’s been real.

As in real s**t.

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Surely this means I should be in charge of recruiting now

Sad thing is that we haven’t changed our philosophy since then, still to many peripheral ‘flexible’ players we force into roles they won’t succeed in and stubbornly sticking with tried and failed senior players in the main roles (often roles they are also not suited to)

In fairness to Hamish, he has selected Pedlar, Rachele, and Curtin. The coach refuses to play them there.

 

[MRB37]

I think he does have an eye for some talent, he's picked enough players who turned out to be good that it's more than just luck. The issue is his blinkers are magnified in the midfield because he seems to have a very small, old school range of skills he rates highly there, contest, tackling and endurance and it has left the midfield one dimensional and largely ineffective.

That's not to say he's blameless because development definitely has hurt some, but there needs to be a more modern thought process to what skills we go after in our midfielders.

I also think another issue may be given Nicks approach to things he would fully be on board with us continuing the Hamish approach to selecting midfielders.

 

[hugecannon]

In fairness to Hamish, he has selected Pedlar, Rachele, and Curtin. The coach refuses to play them there.

this is fair, while I don’t agree with the apparent drafting philosophy of Hamish (too much emphasis of flexibility which we don’t utilise, and way too much sameness in the type of players drafted) but if we don’t change our development structures, it won’t matter who we draft as they’ll never be given the best chance of success.

 

[marty36]

Thanks Haggis. It's been good but we are going to move in a new direction now.

Seriously

“It’s been good “

When


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[119others]

Quite a few simplistic, non balanced opinions here. I get the negative vibes towards everything currently and I agree with much of it. With Hamish however I am not saying he is a top quartile drafter but believe the excessive hate/negativity is overdone.

Drafting AND development are both critical. Not sure our development team - after the exceptional Alan Stewart left in our GF year - faces the same level of scrutiny. Until then our development, esp rookies and low value draft picks, had been one of the leagues best. Many players stagnating - Fog a clear example.

I think the last 4-5 years have been the best period of Hamishs tenure at the club:

- elite potential prospects drafted Rachele, Max, Soligo, TT. I rate Worrell highly and also a very out of form Pedlar has shown he has what it takes. And last years crop, including Curtin who WC rated as second best player in the draft. Edwards and Ryan also exciting prospects and a couple of people in the club - pretty sure Tex was one - said last years draft haul is likely our best yet (and they do not say this every year)

- A number of other talented youngsters that time will tell if they make it but all seem reasonable quality based on draft position - Dowling, Shoey, Taylor and Cook. Most supporters here have seen the potential in some of these names, why aren’t they progressing and/or being played?

- giving up 2 first rounders for Rankine (fair value trade) and Dawson (bargain). Arguably our 2 best players. Hamish would have input and followed each of these lads during their careers and would have had key input into decision to trade rather than use the draft pick.

- bargains (rookies, PSD or delisted FA) buys Murray, Keane, Nank, Keays and Hinge. Many quality names in this lot.

The above list is basically a whole team alone.

Does he nail all high value picks? Ermmm, of course not - and nobody does - and Jones (Butters) and McAsey are glaring examples. One simple swap of Butters (who Twomey advised we were interested in) for Jones and things look very different. In 2015 Hamish wanted English and was overruled by Pyke taking The Gooch (Phil Bunn WA radio interview confirmed). But look at the Cats first round drafting over the last 10-15 years and see the crap they have more often than not taken but still a very successful club almost every year.

And Hamish took over when Matty R was shafted and we had NO first or second round picks in 2012 and 2013. But guess who was then deemed to have CLEARLY the most talented group of under 22 players 4 years later? Exceptional drafting with 4 x AA players in this lot unfortunately many who have left our club which isn’t Hamishs issue. And a number of rookies like CC and Laird and other bargain buys which we received a bounty of draft picks for when they left (Lever and MM). Quite exceptional drafting under the circumstances really don’t you think?

Young Crows dominate 22under22 squad

Plenty of Crows in AFLPA squad of League's best youth

www.afl.com.au

Just some balance people as things aren’t always quite so black and white.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Seeing Gallucci fail and Jones flounder, I'd love Hamish to ask draftees how likely they are to grow a stupid moustache

 

[Cap]

if it has been 12 years, it's time for a change anyway.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

Seeing Gallucci fail and Jones flounder, I'd love Hamish to ask draftees how likely they are to grow a stupid moustache

What about those haircuts?

 

[George Kramer]

Quite a few simplistic, non balanced opinions here. I get the negative vibes towards everything currently and I agree with much of it. With Hamish however I am not saying he is a top quartile drafter but believe the excessive hate/negativity is overdone.

Drafting AND development are both critical. Not sure our development team - after the exceptional Alan Stewart left in our GF year - faces the same level of scrutiny. Until then our development, esp rookies and low value draft picks, had been one of the leagues best. Many players stagnating - Fog a clear example.

I think the last 4-5 years have been the best period of Hamishs tenure at the club:

- elite potential prospects drafted Rachele, Max, Soligo, TT. I rate Worrell highly and also a very out of form Pedlar has shown he has what it takes. And last years crop, including Curtin who WC rated as second best player in the draft. Edwards and Ryan also exciting prospects and a couple of people in the club - pretty sure Tex was one - said last years draft haul is likely our best yet (and they do not say this every year)

- A number of other talented youngsters that time will tell if they make it but all seem reasonable quality based on draft position - Dowling, Shoey, Taylor and Cook. Most supporters here have seen the potential in some of these names, why aren’t they progressing and/or being played?

- giving up 2 first rounders for Rankine (fair value trade) and Dawson (bargain). Arguably our 2 best players. Hamish would have input and followed each of these lads during their careers and would have had key input into decision to trade rather than use the draft pick.

- bargains (rookies, PSD or delisted FA) buys Murray, Keane, Nank, Keays and Hinge. Many quality names in this lot.

The above list is basically a whole team alone.

Does he nail all high value picks? Ermmm, of course not - and nobody does - and Jones (Butters) and McAsey are glaring examples. One simple swap of Butters (who Twomey advised we were interested in) for Jones and things look very different. In 2015 Hamish wanted English and was overruled by Pyke taking The Gooch (Phil Bunn WA radio interview confirmed). But look at the Cats first round drafting over the last 10-15 years and see the crap they have more often than not taken but still a very successful club almost every year.

And Hamish took over when Matty R was shafted and we had NO first or second round picks in 2012 and 2013. But guess who was then deemed to have CLEARLY the most talented group of under 22 players 4 years later? Exceptional drafting with 4 x AA players in this lot unfortunately many who have left our club which isn’t Hamishs issue. And a number of rookies like CC and Laird and other bargain buys which we received a bounty of draft picks for when they left (Lever and MM). Quite exceptional drafting under the circumstances really don’t you think?

Young Crows dominate 22under22 squad

Plenty of Crows in AFLPA squad of League's best youth

www.afl.com.au

Just some balance people as things aren’t always quite so black and white.

So we are just unlucky that we’ve not got one starting mid from a top 20 pick since Brad Crouch?

You’re naming names and banking they’ll be good players before the case and ignoring who we could have drafted instead. Pedlar is in the reserves, his kicking is suspect. Have you looked at the players who are playing regular good AFL that were drafted after him?

Where is the developing ruck who would be 3-4 years in the system that we could replace ROB with?

 

[119others]

So we are just unlucky that we’ve not got one starting mid from a top 20 pick since Brad Crouch?

You’re naming names and banking they’ll be good players before the case and ignoring who we could have drafted instead. Pedlar is in the reserves, his kicking is suspect. Have you looked at the players who are playing regular good AFL that were drafted after him?

Where is the developing ruck who would be 3-4 years in the system that we could replace ROB with?

Why are you placing artificial (ridiculous) limitations of top 20 players DRAFTED? So Edwards turns into a gun mid but as a pick 21 he doesn’t count? Yeah ok that seems a little ridiculous to me. Why are you ignoring traded in players playing midfield (and who have been our 2 best players the last 2 weeks). Why are you ignoring Soligo, Rachele, Dawson, Rankine and I believe long term Pedlar..and then there is possibly the best of the lot in Curtin who Weagles rated a top 2 talent last year according to a WC Board Member.

Now perhaps i am daft but what was our starting midfield on the weekend? Please remind me.

I must be mistaken but swear I saw Soligo, Rankine and Dawson in the guts. Now when were these 3 drafted OR traded for again? Surely it hasn’t been in the last 3 years? Or you don’t believe trading players in a valid way to build a club despite the last 2 premiers clearly showing that is their key strategy in building a flag contending list (one who explicitly stated it as late as last week).

Just try looking at the big picture and not putting stupid limitations on otherwise you ignore Rankine, Dawson, Soligo (all proven qualit) and Edwards for starters

 

[Eagleboy2011]

I understand Milera was considered a gun at the time, but I wonder what Hamish's thoughts on Curnow were at the draft. His brother was here once and let go and he played over 200 games at Carlton..

 

[119others]

So we are just unlucky that we’ve not got one starting mid from a top 20 pick since Brad Crouch?

You’re naming names and banking they’ll be good players before the case and ignoring who we could have drafted instead. Pedlar is in the reserves, his kicking is suspect. Have you looked at the players who are playing regular good AFL that were drafted after him?

Where is the developing ruck who would be 3-4 years in the system that we could replace ROB with?

Ps your thoughts on the 7 crows players in the best “22 and under” squad in 2016 which was clearly number one in the league.

Do you give any credit to Hamish for this DESPiTE having no first or second rounders in the critical years for this batch (2012/2013)? Or he just got lucky drafting multiple (4) of them as AA with the majority of the 7 drafted third round or later - your thoughts?

 

[jackster83]

Ps your thoughts on the 7 crows players in the best “22 and under” squad in 2016 which was clearly number one in the league.

Cool.

 

[1970crow]

Shoutout to hugecannon with the great call in Jun 2017. Still 0 AFL quality midfielders drafted with top 20 picks in the 7 years since.

I have to question whether List Management direct player types preferred. Throughout that period we had Sloane, Danger, Thommo, 2 x Crouch, Dougie. Given our 4 man midfield strategy, we didn't need any more high level mids so just used later picks to acquire depth. We tried to replace Danger with the ready made Gibbs and added Laird who became our first picked mid. It's only the last few years we've had a crack at all with Jones and Pedlar.

What's hard to fathom is that we get Soligo with 36.

 

[1970crow]

I think you mean it’s been real.

As in real s**t.

 

[1970crow]

Ps your thoughts on the 7 crows players in the best “22 and under” squad in 2016 which was clearly number one in the league.

Do you give any credit to Hamish for this DESPiTE having no first or second rounders in the critical years for this batch (2012/2013)? Or he just got lucky drafting multiple (4) of them as AA with the majority of the 7 drafted third round or later - your thoughts?

2016 squad selected by industry nuffies is evidence of your view? There's clutching at straws and then there's this hilarity, well done.

 

[119others]

2016 squad selected by industry nuffies is evidence of your view? There's clutching at straws and then there's this hilarity, well done.

Erm, not sure of your reading and comprehension skills here. Take out the “2016 squad” title then if that pleases you. Perhaps try using some facts in your rebuttal and comment on the following re Hamishs drafting in his first 4 years (2012-2015) when we had no first OR second rounders in half those years:

- rookies CC and Laird -multiple AA each. CC best small forward in the league for the last handful of years. Thoughts?

- Lever - excellent pick. AA. Best interceptor in the league in recent years. Turned him into 2 x first rounders. Thoughts?

- MM - high end talent whose injuries and motivation haven’t maximised career. Mid 40’s pick turned into a first rounder and McAadm. Thoughts?

- M Crouch - any player taken second round who becomes AA and likely ends up as a 200 gamer is a win. Thoughts?

Or he just got lucky drafting multiple (4) of them as AA with the majority of the 7 listed previously third round or later - your thoughts? Add in his English (Gooch) preference in 2015 and how do you rate the first 4 years of his tenure at the club? Thoughts? EDIT - English 2016 (not 2015)

I look forward to you not hiding away now from addressing the above questions old mate. And George Kramer also.

 

[George Kramer]

Why are you placing artificial (ridiculous) limitations of top 20 players DRAFTED? So Edwards turns into a gun mid but as a pick 21 he doesn’t count? Yeah ok that seems a little ridiculous to me. Why are you ignoring traded in players playing midfield (and who have been our 2 best players the last 2 weeks). Why are you ignoring Soligo, Rachele, Dawson, Rankine and I believe long term Pedlar..and then there is possibly the best of the lot in Curtin who Weagles rated a top 2 talent last year according to a WC Board Member.

Now perhaps i am daft but what was our starting midfield on the weekend? Please remind me.

I must be mistaken but swear I saw Soligo, Rankine and Dawson in the guts. Now when were these 3 drafted OR traded for again? Surely it hasn’t been in the last 3 years? Or you don’t believe trading players in a valid way to build a club despite the last 2 premiers clearly showing that is their key strategy in building a flag contending list (one who explicitly stated it as late as last week).

Just try looking at the big picture and not putting stupid limitations on otherwise you ignore Rankine, Dawson, Soligo (all proven qualit) and Edwards for starters

Top 20 is generally the first round of a draft, that’s been blown out over recent years. Therefore it represents the majority of our first rounders, that shouldn’t have been that hard for you to work out. Those are the picks where you find your top end midfielders generally, therefore why that’s important to actually draft some midfielders.

Traded in players is list management and Reid, I’m talking about drafting.

You mean Curtin who is playing as a KPD.
Pedlar half forward with some runs in the middle playing forward and now SANFL.
Rachelle playing primarily as a forward.

You’re including these players plus Edwards who hasn’t played a game yet as drafting a successful midfield? Seems you’re suffering from a case of premature midfield celebration