Opinion Recruiting and List Management Team: Hamish Ogilvie, Justin Reid & Co

[Harris1991]

Don't know why we're even talking about Petty.

Agreed. It's pissing me off because I know these incompetent fools will sell the farm for a player who is really, really quite average. Then they will call it a massive trade win.

 

[BunjiMac]

Hamish is no Messiah, in fact far from it when comes to recruitment.

He's best used as a spotter assigned to watch people play footy and report back.

His thing is exposed junior form.

Hes not suited to being a head recruiter who needs to actually predict how these kids will turn out

However he has carved out a sweet career for himself cashing in on that one time he said Dangerfield would be a good player. He knows he doesn't want to lose this job so adopts a safety first position especially when it comes to a 1st rounder. If you take the safe option, you hope to get less criticism for the particular pick. This is also why he goes for versatility, ie more options means a safer pick as theoretically more chance of success.

He is also clearly biased towards a particular upbringing and can only see this pathway to success. He can't actually understand how a tough up bringing can create strong personalities that can actually perform under the highest pressure. It's not black or white obviously, but at least be open to it for god sake.

We deserve better for a professional head of recruitment. It's been too long that we've had this mediocre performance that is immune to criticism.

Change is needed and now.

 

[GreyCrow]

However he has carved out a sweet career for himself cashing in on that one time he said Dangerfield would be a good player.

Wasnt that Rendell who pushed back against the Ebert train?

 

[Vladdy Daddy]

Wasnt that Rendell who pushed back against the Ebert train?

Correct

 

[BunjiMac]

Wasnt that Rendell who pushed back against the Ebert train?

Not saying Hamish made the call, but there are claims he has watched Danger a fair bit and was a fan.

Obviously Rendell made the final call.

 

[Harris1991]

Hamish is no Messiah, in fact far from it when comes to recruitment.

He's best used as a spotter assigned to watch people play footy and report back.

His thing is exposed junior form.

Hes not suited to being a head recruiter who needs to actually predict how these kids will turn out

However he has carved out a sweet career for himself cashing in on that one time he said Dangerfield would be a good player. He knows he doesn't want to lose this job so adopts a safety first position especially when it comes to a 1st rounder. If you take the safe option, you hope to get less criticism for the particular pick. This is also why he goes for versatility, ie more options means a safer pick as theoretically more chance of success.

He is also clearly biased towards a particular upbringing and can only see this pathway to success. He can't actually understand how a tough up bringing can create strong personalities that can actually perform under the highest pressure. It's not black or white obviously, but at least be open to it for god sake.

We deserve better for a professional head of recruitment. It's been too long that we've had this mediocre performance that is immune to criticism.

Change is needed and now.

You're correct in that change is needed now. There is no way we can let him be responsible for this this years draft.

 

[119others]

119others you going to acknowledge the misses in this lot? If more worked out do you think we would have made the finals once in the last 7 years?

Gday old mate

Firstly, up front I acknowledge and am genuinely sorry for being somewhat ill-tempered recently man - certainly my issues on this occasion.

Hamish absolutely has a CRAP load of misses. We should all know and acknowledge that (it’s impossible to argue otherwise), especially some of the picks that really count (high end picks). The standout misses of Jones instead of Butters and Mc A instead of Selong (and even The Gooch/English) and things would look more than a little different. But he didn’t nail them without going into excuses.

My collective points were trying to illustrate that our absolutely crap year (someone should write a good HARD letter to Crows Management ) was there is much more to blame than Hamish. A number of highly talented youngsters (who I stilll believe will be elite players) like TT and Rachele had their BEST games in their first game played. That’s not normal and beyond disappointing from a development perspective. Bring back Alan Stewart quality coaches ideally…

Besides drafting other issues include sub-par coaching and development. Hamish, over the journey, has many good hits from picks 35 ish to rookies which intuitively feel stacks up pretty well relative to other recruiters - but I have neither the time, energy or inclination to look into it further.

Anyway happy to have outlined my perspective , and leave it there (and try avoiding the literal and metaphorical somewhat scary “mini me” who seems to be stalking me - didn’t realise I lived so prominently rent free in anyone’s mind haha) and let’s hope we get the desired result this weekend - whatever that is!

Changes are needed after the last 6 weeks. From highest to lowest scoring is….inexcusable. Besides 1994 and the Shaw year I can’t remember too many more disappointing 6 week periods than what we have just experienced relative to hopes and expectations. And most of us have no confidence we are going to turn things around this year..

 

[morris086]

Hmm...

 

[jackster83]

Hmm...

View attachment 1969643

I got that one right.

 

[George Kramer]

2 firsts we offered for Petty, let that sink in.

The club needs to a bomb through it.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

2 firsts we offered for Petty, let that sink in.

The club needs to a bomb through it.

Melbourne kicking themselves

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

2 firsts we offered for Petty, let that sink in.

The club needs to a bomb through it.

Thank goodness Dee's said no!

We wouldn't have Curtin for starters along with next year's 1st pick.

Would have been Gibbs all over again.

 

[jackster83]

2 firsts we offered for Petty, let that sink in.

The club needs to a bomb through it.

Funny thing is we've found two pretty decent KPD's with SSP picks.

Drafting and list management not always on the same page.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Funny thing is we've found two pretty decent KPD's with SSP picks.

Drafting and list management not always on the same page.

Yep, look what we have spent for Murray v Keane v McAsey.

We need to prioritise earlier picks on our midfield & be smart about FA.

 

[maxlilly]

2 firsts we offered for Petty, let that sink in.

The club needs to a bomb through it.

They really don't want Hamish to waste anymore 1st rounders by the looks of that
But that would have been another disaster

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

They really don't want Hamish to waste anymore 1st rounders by the looks of that
But that would have been another disaster

Curtin is only being wasted by our refusal to play him...

 

[MsTopG]

Ogilvie has tried repeatedly to draft midfielders in the first round (and I agree, not necessarily because we “needed” a midfielder with the corresponding pick, but because he identified them as the best available overall selection) - he’s just got absolutely no idea how to identify the best first round talents who translate as such at the next level.

Chayce Jones was drafted as a pure inside / outside combo mid. Top 10 draft pick. Massive investment. No way in hell he was envisioned as anything but a full time mid at the time. Ahead of Zak Butters who played a very similar role as a junior. I’d love to hear one single AFL trait where Chayce can even hold a candle to Zak. It’s ludicrous. Not to mention getting our pants pulled down by Port trading up ahead of us to take Rozee before Chayce AND Butters after Chayce, despite us having the superior draft hand (not only did we have the Chayce and Ned picks, we had another first rounder a couple of picks after Ned, which we eventually turned into McAsey and Pedlar in the next 2 drafts - hooray).

Chayce is now being hidden on a wing, and never attending centre bounces, while Butters dominates the entire league for fun. I wonder how many more 25 plus possession games / Brownlow votes Chayce will achieve in his entire career from here on? I’ll go with 0. The talent identification was way off. He’ll be flat out ever even getting a coaches vote.

Luke Pedlar was drafted as a goalkicking mid with explosive power and grunt. Pick 11. Huge investment. Ahead of Max Holmes. Holmes is about to earn a million dollars per season. Pedlar is being outperformed by 0 gamer Billy Dowling in the SANFL and is watching all of McHenry, Sholl, Cook, Berry, Murphy, Nankervis, the corpse of Brodie Smith and Chayce Jones routinely picked ahead of him at AFL level. Not to mention Crouch being picked ahead of him, despite Crouch being a whisker away from being permanently delisted with 6 weeks left in 2023 before injuries saw him given one final shot, and then lo and behold the realisation from the coaching staff was “oops, Crouchy’s actually better than everyone else we have as an inside mid”.

You’d have to ask Hamish what on earth he drafted McHenry as, but presumably as a high energy guy who can split time between the midfield and forward line. Best available overall talent apparently. Ahead of James Rowbottom/Tom Sparrow as mids, and ahead of Bobby Hill as a small forward. If he thought Ned was the best available player at Pick 16, I just can’t even fathom how bad he is at identifying what talent actually is, because apart from stamina and “trying hard”, this guy has absolutely no AFL abilities whatsoever and will be lucky to be on an AFL list at all in 2025. The fact that he’s getting regular games at the moment is a complete indictment on our list in itself.

Gallucci was drafted as a hybrid mid/forward, with explosive athletic traits (ie combine star over football player). Pick 15. Big investment. Ahead of Shai Bolton and Will Hayward (among many, many others in a loaded draft). Even before the Achilles, he was clearly out of his depth at AFL level, and the fact that no other club gave him a lifeline at the age of 22 should tell everyone all they need to know about how terrible that pick was. The stories of Don Pyke overruling a Tim English pick here don’t tell the real story. There’s no way Pyke would have been across all available options. It would have been a “hey Pykey, we’re leaning towards an athletic ruck here, but there’s also a combine superstar who can play at half forward or as a combo mid who we like”. There’s no way Shai Bolton was presented as an option to the coach. Or Hayward. Etc.

McAsey was drafted as a genuine key defender. Pick 6 no less - the best pick the club had in years (started out as pick 4 but we did a deal to trade down because we knew we’d still get our man - gee I wonder why it was so easy to still get our man?). Ahead of Sam de Koning who is one of the best young key defenders in the league.


So it’s established that Hamish very much struggles to draft the best available at certain positions, and then it gets even worse when you consider the fact that he’s clearly not even paying all that much attention to the positions they play (with first round picks), and is, as you say, trying to draft “best available” regardless of position or list needs with these high picks.

Milera ahead of Curnow

McAsey ahead of Serong/Day/H Young/K Pickett (and as we said, De Koning)

Gallucci ahead of Marshall/English/T Stewart/B Cox (and as previously covered, Bolton and Hayward)

Brayden Cook and Sam Berry instead of bidding on Gulden, who we’ve since offered a 10 year deal.

I have serious concerns over Rachele ahead of NWM but I understand not everyone is with me there. Give it 12 more months but Rachele was blatantly the more “AFL ready” player, so realistically NWM has more upside from here IMO.

Personally I have pretty grave concerns about Thilthorpe ahead of Logan McDonald too. Again, we’ll wait another 12 months to know for sure here.


One common trait I see in most of Hamish’s first round selections is general mental weakness. Just a complete inability to cope with pressure and heat. This, in addition to raw talent, is what SHOULD actually set 1st rounders apart from the rest of the draft pool, but it’s consistently letting us down and these players don’t seem to be able to cope when it gets hot in the kitchen. Maybe they learn that from newly minted inspirational leader Brodie Smith, who has always shat his pants under pressure and been a downhill skier. Not sure.


Regarding your point on free agents / trades - it’s clear there’s definitely a scattergun approach happening, and this is largely because we have more problems than just the midfield.

Our starting half back flankers are the corpse of Brodie Smith and Wayne “made of glass” Milera.

We currently have James Borlase and Jordon Butts taking it in turns to play a key defensive post.

The only 2 genuine ruckmen on our list are Reilly O’Brien and Kieran Strachan. Thilthorpe has shown an inability to get his hand to the ball at centre bounce - around the ground he is fine but isn’t he going to be a long term key forward?

Every man and their dog seems to want Rankine and Rachele to play all the midfield time they can handle, which means our small forwards would be some sort of horrendous combo of Lachie Murphy, Ben Keays, Ned McHenry and Luke Pedlar (ie nobody with the required skill level or goalkicking nous to be competitive). You can’t clone Rankine and/or Rachele, so one of those areas of the ground remains fkd.

Tex has less than 30 AFL games left in him. Thilthorpe is injury prone. Fog is struggling big time with creating separation or holding his marks. Welsh is undersized in the same way Fog is. Lachie Gollant and Chris Burgess are the only options who exist on the list to cover for the injury prone Thilthorpe.

One of our starting wingmen is routinely Chayce Jones, and Lachie Sholl regularly spends time on the other wing. Does any other AFL team have wingmen who are this bad?

Patrick Parnell and Will Hamill are apparently good enough to play for us in a back pocket when Milera isn’t available.

We are obsessed with playing 2 of the 3 of Laird, Crouch and Berry in the midfield - all have obvious limitations and we should never have 2 of them in there, but maybe when you recruit a black hole, you have to?


No wonder the trading and FA approach is somewhat “scattergun” - every part of the damn ground is fkd in some way with little to no depth.


But look, the main point is that despite recent trade acquisitions in Dawson and Rankine, our midfield, which is by far the most important part of any list, is inescapably putrid, and I blame Hamish for drafting average to poor players over some of the genuine superstars of the comp with key picks.

Hamish should have been sacked on the spot for drafting mchenry.

 

[MsTopG]

2 firsts we offered for Petty, let that sink in.

The club needs to a bomb through it.

The club needs to be protected against itself. They throw s**t at a wall and hope something sticks.

 

[crowholder]

Curtin is only being wasted by our refusal to play him...

and he needs to be played in positions that suit him. From what I have seen of him, he has great skills and likes to take the game on...but we are putting him deep in defence to supposedly learn new skills. It just seems so stupid to me. He is a high quality player that needs our coaching staff to work with his strengths, to build confidence, and to trust him to do so in the 1s.

 

[Cap]

View attachment 1966892

We've been here before. Next minute: Chris Burgess, the end.

Sorry, is this a recent quote?

 

[DJ75]

2 firsts we offered for Petty, let that sink in.

The club needs to a bomb through it.

I've watched Petty quite a bit lately. I've seen nothing that even remotely suggests he is a need. Or even a quality AFL player.
2 firsts? Absolute insanity.

 

[George Kramer]

I've watched Petty quite a bit lately. I've seen nothing that even remotely suggests he is a need. Or even a quality AFL player.
2 firsts? Absolute insanity.

He’s a decent defender but we’d be mad paying up for one of those

 

[Firewalker]

He’s a decent defender but we’d be mad paying up for one of those

If it allows for more of this up forward I’m still all for it…

 

[CryptoCrow]

You're writing off Edwards? And Ryan?

And Murphy twice ...

Murphy twice is completely understandable

 

[CryptoCrow]

Will we be the last club to realise that there is a great opportunity to pick up athletic sudanese kids?

Yes we will. Of course we will.

I think it's pretty obvious why we don't pick up kids of certain shades.. hint just listen to the music of our club song. There's still some really backward stuff deep rooted in our club( strike that), it's not our club anymore, the club for all South Australians. I am not saying the players are like that, a fish rots from the head. The club has an opportunity once and for all to rebuild and I'm not talking about the players it's about tradition and Integrity.