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Analysis Rolling All-Australian team for 2021

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LittleG said:
Your rankings make more sense than many of the other ones.

I would love to be able to rank progress for every team and not just Eagles. Is that difficult to program?

Ah. So that is how Bont ends up there. But Macrae ranked as the second best outside mid ends up on the bench because he is the next highest ranked onballer behind Petracca, Parish, Oliver and Bont?
Just trying to understand the logic of the positions.
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Good pick-up - lowered the threshold ratio on the overall Best 22 squad for positioning (ie even though Macrae should have been positioned in the squad as an outside mid, his superior rating as an inside mid by more than 25% was keeping him on the interchange rather than above Duncan on the wing) - now corrected.


Happy Mastenator said:
You need to add a minimum games threshold. Duncan has only played 10 games.
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Minimum games threshold is at 8 matches of the past 23 rounds.
 
Trav 20 said:
I'm not talking about ''deep defence''. I'm talking about bail-out kicks from FB that end up near the wings.

Why would May compete in the air for those long kicks from FB when he's got Gawn, or Jackson competing ?

It's patent nonsense.
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I know I dont watch all games but I dont think I have noticed any team have their FB contest those kicks? For every team it would be the rucks or forwards role. Pretty sure FBs would still be in the 50 as their role in the defensive zone.

This doesnt really change whether it adds or detracts from May taking kickins or not. I guess that role depends on the strengths of your team. I dont think its a negative if Andrews for example doesnt take many kickins. Why would he when you have Rich on the team as one of the best kicks in the comp
 
KissKiss said:
I know I dont watch all games but I dont think I have noticed any team have their FB contest those kicks? For every team it would be the rucks or forwards role. Pretty sure FBs would still be in the 50 as their role in the defensive zone.

This doesnt really change whether it adds or detracts from May taking kickins or not. I guess that role depends on the strengths of your team. I dont think its a negative if Andrews for example doesnt take many kickins. Why would he when you have Rich on the team as one of the best kicks in the comp
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I agree. But it stamps May's class/skills as the best in the competition for key defenders.
 

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Happy Mastenator said:
Ok, but for the purposes of an AA team that's not going to fly.
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Fair point, the current minimum was originally applied for club selection and hasn't been revisited since expanding across all.

Will up the minimum requirement on the All Competition and State of Origin squads.
 
Fadge said:
You actually haven't posted in my MVP thread...

Or are you having a sook because I thought there was a more deserving MVP in 2019 than Cripps? (which actually puts an exclamation mark against my earlier comment)

😮😮😮
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You literally have a post that reads 'I'm the first to have a dig at Carlton when the opportunity arises'.
I don't think I need to say any more, ur a troll.

I'm here to talk about AA candidates... Of which I like many others - look to stats to back up our opinions. If you have an issue with me discussing Jacob Weitering as a potential selection and comparing his stats to other players around him I suggest you block me or move on.
 
Is Gillon McLachlan still on the selection panel? I thought it was a disgrace that he was on it last season. how much footy does he actually watch, I'm guessing a quarter of the amount of games as your average Bigfooty poster.
 
Dylan82 said:
Agreed, it's a reflection on the current low standard of non-key forwards we currently have across the competition.

The closest I have with those squads is 23 & Under, as could be expected Rising Stars are unlikely to make an appearance.

At some point I will probably add a Rising Star entry to those squads, but it has not been actioned thus far.

That said, Weightman from his 11 matches is currently ranked on a per game basis as first among rising stars for score involvements and goals, second for tackles inside 50, third for marks inside 50 and fourth for goal assists - not a bad portfolio for a non-key forward.
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It’s good that your system recognises him. He has been outstanding. Not just for an 11 game player but league wide.

I think it’s a good system Dylan.

PS. Do you do other API’s? I occasionally have a need for them.
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
You literally have a post that reads 'I'm the first to have a dig at Carlton when the opportunity arises'.
I don't think I need to say any more, ur a troll.

I'm here to talk about AA candidates... Of which I like many others - look to stats to back up our opinions. If you have an issue with me discussing Jacob Weitering as a potential selection and comparing his stats to other players around him I suggest you block me or move on.
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Ok, so you were sooking.

And please don't label people trolls just because their AA spine doesn't read:
Jones
Weitering
Walsh
Silvagni
McKay

With Cripps, Kennedy and Dow on the bench...
 
Fadge said:
Ok, so you were sooking.

And please don't label people trolls just because their AA spine doesn't read:
Jones
Weitering
Walsh
Silvagni
McKay

With Cripps, Kennedy and Dow on the bench...
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Dude, he's been much better than you in this thread and I hate Carlton as much as anyone
 

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Suitcase said:
Fair enough. I think the point being made is he doesn't take contested marks in any situations, whereas others do.
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May absolutely can take contested marks and does, and absolutely can play the intercepting role and has in games here and there. Fremantle round 1 he had 8 intercepts and 3 contested marks as an example.

I agree with the point Trav 20 makes that May has far fewer chances to do some things that can grow stats because he is taking kick outs. It’s also part of where he is superior to others as their kicking is not on May’s level - not that he’s immune to shocking kicks here and there.

To criticise May for having fewer contested marks and spoils, and then discount the value of his kick outs, which is one of the reasons he has less opportunity for contested marks and spoils, is a bit unfair and seems like double dipping to me.

When Melbourne play well it’s because players are playing their role, within themselves, doing less as individuals if their teammate is better suited and the tactics call for it.

There were signs of selfishness at times in the run where Melbourne were up and down recently and I don’t think that was coincidence. In recent years Melbourne often had three of Frost, Lever, May, Hibberd and Jetta flying at the same ball. They would crash into each other, and the opposition would get the easy crumb and goal - it was bad when too many tried to be the hero.

May is not trying to do everything he’s capable of, he’s doing the role he’s been asked to do. Why try for intercept marks or contested marks, when you’ve been asked to keep your player occupied to make it easier for Lever to take an uncontested intercept instead? It doesn’t help May’s stats sheet, but it’s much better team play.

If that means other defenders have had better statistical seasons on some measures, and that’s a deciding factor in AA selection, then so be it. AA is an individual award ultimately, and it’s a team sport. It’s also not about what someone can do, it’s what they did do, and on that measure other defenders do have some better numbers.
 
Ambrosia said:
I just don’t get how May’s shortcomings compared to other defenders can be explained away by saying that’s not his role.

This is the AA team surely we are picking the players who perform who have the greatest responsibility of roles. Surely the fact Jacob Weitering is taking the oppositions best forward each week whilst being an elite intercept player is a huge feather in his cap when compared to FBs who aren’t capable of the same.

If I said Merrett had kicked less goals than Bont and Petracca because it’s not his role to play forward does that mean Merrett has been as good as them??
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Tbf May has been better than Lever despite what the stats say imo

Teams will often play a decoy on May to get him away from the contest. And his takes the opposition's number 1 KPF and seriously hasn't been beaten in a match up this year

If one of Lever or May was to be named I'm the 22 I would have May

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
 
WalshistheGOAT said:
I agree with ur points and I'd have May in my team because while it may not show statistically, whatever he's doing is working and it has to be rewarded given how well Melbourne is going. Have any key forwards got a hold of Lever and May? Maybe Mckay for a half? That's pretty remarkable.
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Nope.

McKay & Hipwood had good moments but that's it

I think 2 KPF's have gotten coaches votes against us this year and it was only either 1 or 2 vote(s) so not dominate games

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Most intercept marks in an AFL match
10 - Jade Rawlings
10 - Daniel Talia
10 - Liam Jones
10 - Steven May
10 - Tom Stewart
10 - Aliir Aliir

May can take intercept marks, he can take contested marks, but his primary role as FB is to stop the opposition's best forward/gorilla from scoring. He's the first defender picked in the AA team.

Weitering taking one more contested mark every 8 quarters of football doesn't change that.
 
Lampers said:
May absolutely can take contested marks and does, and absolutely can play the intercepting role and has in games here and there. Fremantle round 1 he had 8 intercepts and 3 contested marks as an example.

I agree with the point Trav 20 makes that May has far fewer chances to do some things that can grow stats because he is taking kick outs. It’s also part of where he is superior to others as their kicking is not on May’s level - not that he’s immune to shocking kicks here and there.

To criticise May for having fewer contested marks and spoils, and then discount the value of his kick outs, which is one of the reasons he has less opportunity for contested marks and spoils, is a bit unfair and seems like double dipping to me.

When Melbourne play well it’s because players are playing their role, within themselves, doing less as individuals if their teammate is better suited and the tactics call for it.

There were signs of selfishness at times in the run where Melbourne were up and down recently and I don’t think that was coincidence. In recent years Melbourne often had three of Frost, Lever, May, Hibberd and Jetta flying at the same ball. They would crash into each other, and the opposition would get the easy crumb and goal - it was bad when too many tried to be the hero.

May is not trying to do everything he’s capable of, he’s doing the role he’s been asked to do. Why try for intercept marks or contested marks, when you’ve been asked to keep your player occupied to make it easier for Lever to take an uncontested intercept instead? It doesn’t help May’s stats sheet, but it’s much better team play.

If that means other defenders have had better statistical seasons on some measures, and that’s a deciding factor in AA selection, then so be it. AA is an individual award ultimately, and it’s a team sport. It’s also not about what someone can do, it’s what they did do, and on that measure other defenders do have some better numbers.
Click to expand...

I’m not high on defending being an overly valuable skill in today’s game. The vast majority of scores come from the opposition forcing turnovers and scoring on the rebound which no defender can really stop no matter how talented.

May and Lever are guns but I’d suggest the lack of score kicked against them has far more to do with Melbourne’s game style and overall talent level than individual defensive ability.

Alex Rance conceded the most goals of any KPD to his direct opponent in multiple seasons but he was still at his best the most impactful defender in the comp and deserving of AA selection. Inversely Ben McKay is one of the best defensive players in the league at the moment and wouldn’t make my AA 4th team.

That being said I sort of disagree that AA is a completely individual award. Lever and May being the best defenders on the best defensive team is a big reason to be selected imo.
 

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lol at Melbourne supporters saying May isn’t required to do certain things that other key defenders do, because his team mates do it for him. But then proceed to not allow that argument when it’s about other head to head conversations such as the ruck….
I think May definitely should be in the reckoning for the full back position (he is in my team), it’s just the hypocrisy…
 
djrasta213 said:
lol at Melbourne supporters saying May isn’t required to do certain things that other key defenders do, because his team mates do it for him. But then proceed to not allow that argument when it’s about other head to head conversations such as the ruck….
Click to expand...

Sitting on the bench, or wheezing with your arms on your hips in the centre square as your team mates have to do double time to compensate for your shortcomings is quite different to sticking to an onfield role that is lesser than your potential for the greater benefit of the team.

Unless you’re going to argue Simpson says “Listen Nic, how you can help us most is by spending heaps of time on the bench, and when you’re out there just try not to leave the centre square unless absolutely necessary. We want to give Nathan Vardy some solid game time tonight.”.
 
Get Charlie Dixon in there
 
What are people's thoughts about the CHB postion and Jacob Weitering v Allir Allir ?

Most people seem have locked in Weitering very early in the season, but I reckon Allir has been bloody good this year and would also be deserving

I realise it's an individual award and team success shouldn't matter, but the history of the All Australian awards has proven it DOES matter. Do people really think the selectors will name just one player (Wines) from a top four team and pick 2 or 3 players (Walsh, Weitering, McKay) from a bottom six team?

Port have one of the stingiest defences in the AFL and Carlton have one of the worst. Are we just gonna ignore that?

Weitering seems to come out ahead in the stats, but these can be misleading with defenders. Harris Andrews is statistically better than every defender except Lever, but I don't see anyone putting his name up for AA in 2021.

Besides, I don't think Allir's dominance is always reflected in the stats. e.g. He was huge against Hawthorn a few weeks back - he KILLED us - but you wouldn't know from perusing the stats. Or the coaches votes... He didn't get a vote for that game, which I find hard to fathom. But that's the problem for good spoiling defenders in a top team - the votes are spread around the mids and forwards. (The Blues are pretty shit, with very few consistent contributors, so Walsh, Cripps and Weitering always seem to get votes)

I dunno... Every time I watch Port play, Allir always looks to me like one of the most dominant players on the ground.
 
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