Opinion Round 8 Changes vs. Richmond

[heavho]

I'm sure if you focused in on one individual player you will find a error. The whole team wasn't fantastic against essendon.

 

[Dump Truck]

Just watched the replay and can't really see what was wrong with Ibbo's game. Apart from his one mistake and there were plenty of those from everyone in the first half Ibbo did his job. I guess once you're branded a goat on here there is not much chance of losing the tag. He marked well, played on effectively and disposal was good.
I doubt Ibbo will lose his spot based on this game. I can't see any changes.

It wasn't so much of a terrible game for me. It's more he hasn't really offered too much as a whole over the 7 rounds. I think he will still be a valuable asset for us and hope we retain him after this season but I think we should give Collins a shot due to his consistent form at WAFL level. I understand they are different players but I would like to see Collins play as the +1 down back to stop the running patterns and space of the smalls/Riewoldt. He'd also be able to compete with Dusty in the 1v1's when Dusty rests forward. I won't be upset if Ibbo keeps his spot but for me personally he's the one I'd swap out to give Collins a game. Logue potentially as well but I'd like to see him be consistent at WAFL level this week and maybe play him against the younger Blues side.

 

[heavho]

For me on ibbotson it's a consitant basis of holiding the ball in front of goal consistantly in a lot of his games and on the weekend it once again happened and for me that was it. He was ok over the night but consistanly seeing that all the time and then again said to me that's it no more. I Want to see some of the younger guys get a go down back for the rest of the year. They are the Fremantle football clubs future not ibbotson

 

[Scham]

Ibbo was ineffective as the plus 1 on Sunday.

 

[wayToGo_]

Spurr won't get dropped. He is in the leadership group and is highly regarded by the players and coaching staff. He is the cool head of the backline and he may bomb it every now and then but he doesn't sit there and wait to be tackled or do a short little pass to the opposition and get a easy goal.

I like Spurr and when he is playing well I am a big fan. But if you are playing poorly being in the leadership group and being respected shouldn't make you immune to the selection axe - especially for a team going through a rebuild phase. I'd be interested if someone could show me some of the good things he did in the game on the weekend. I was hoping to find some in that third quarter (and I would have mentioned them if I had) but I was actually surprised there were none. I'd hope there would be some in other quarters - any chance you could point me to some to balance the conversation?

 

[Kram]

I haven't seen Collins play this year so maybe he's improved but whilst not 'bad' his disposal of the footy is pretty average at best.

 

[Superkoops]

I like Collins and my opinion is that him spending time in the WAFL isn't a bad thing he has a lot to learn in terms of body on body and his decision making relating quickly playing on to advantage.

His kicking has improved but needs to improve further and in the WAFL you can see him getting better at looking up and making every effort to play on.

Ross Lyon made a comment about Tabs in his presser on Sun that he has been given games in the past when really he shouldn't have. This goes for Sam Collins last year.

What I have noticed with Sam Collins is that he takes a very nice mark and is good at intercepting the ball. Also good around his feet. I remember him impressing Dermy one week last year with a ground ball gather and quick handball through traffic.

For mine he isn't a like for like replacement with Ibbo. Whilst Ibbo at times plays taller (he briefly matched up on Daniher, when Hamling was off for a few minutes), he spends most of his time as a +1 or matched up on small to medium forwards.

We were a bit outsized against WCE so Collins could have been brought in for that game. Essendon had a range of mosquito types running around and Richmond also have a heap of smaller types (Lloyd, Rioli, Edwards etc.).

Ibbo needs to focus on his first option. At times he hesitates and then he is stuffed.

Collins needs to keep building form in the WAFL and his chance will come either due to injury or team matchup. No need to gift games due to panic stations re: him possibly leaving.

 

[heavho]

The first quarter aside the only problem I had with both Ibbo and Spurr was the speed of their decision making. There were a bunch of moments where we had a fast break and they halted our movement forward completely.

Focusing in on Spurr as I thought he was pretty terrible. If you refer to the video from the 3rd quarter (http://bponlinewoc6264.ngcdn.telstr...-05-07_07-25-54-9397/output_2400kbps_720p.mp4) and jump to:

• 4:30 - Spurr switches opponent with Brad Hill but just doesn't work hard enough to get back on Hurley. Hurley comes back on the overlap to receive the hand ball and kicks just outside 50 for a goal.

Hurley isn't a man he could match up on in a contest height and strength

• 5:30 - Essendon wins the clearance right up the middle, Spurr leaves his player to pressure the ball carrier but just wasn't fast enough to make any impact. Hand ball over the top to his opponent. Hand balls to Daniher who wheels around, breaks a tackle by Ibbo and kicks the goal. Watch the replay straight after to see the other angle and the massive gap Spurr left in our defence.
• 8:00 - Spurr tackles Daniher who drops the ball (possibly htb?) but then holds on too long and gives away the free instead. We would have been away with 3 players around the loose ball. Daniher plays on and kicks deep. Spurr hits him late and gives away another free (downfield). Hooker gets a shot at goal from just outside the goal square. Questionable frees but undisciplined for a senior player either way.
• 11:30 - Spurr gets drawn to the ball and leaves his opponent inside 50

I like Spurr and when he is playing well I am a big fan. But if you are playing poorly being in the leadership group and being respected shouldn't make you immune to the selection axe - especially for a team going through a rebuild phase. I'd be interested if someone could show me some of the good things he did in the game on the weekend. I was hoping to find some in that third quarter (and I would have mentioned them if I had) but I was actually surprised there were none. I'd hope there would be some in other quarters - any chance you could point me to some to balance the conversation?

your referring to one quarter of football. Did you take into account the amount of marks he took? The amount of goals the opponent he played on kicked ? Did you take into account the amount of hard work he did to get off his opponent due to the lack of another player being on their man ? The pressure tackle on daniher that lingered but should of been holding the ball ?

 

[SiempreFreo]

I like Spurr and when he is playing well I am a big fan. But if you are playing poorly being in the leadership group and being respected shouldn't make you immune to the selection axe - especially for a team going through a rebuild phase. I'd be interested if someone could show me some of the good things he did in the game on the weekend. I was hoping to find some in that third quarter (and I would have mentioned them if I had) but I was actually surprised there were none. I'd hope there would be some in other quarters - any chance you could point me to some to balance the conversation?

Spurr took at least 2 heroes' marks, as he does every game. His aerial capacity is surprisingly good.

 

[Unique Name]

your referring to one quarter of football. Did you take into account the amount of marks he took? The amount of goals the opponent he played on kicked ? Did you take into account the amount of hard work he did to get off his opponent due to the lack of another player being on their man ? The pressure tackle on daniher that lingered but should of been holding the ball ?

His marking is good, it's what he does next that is the problem.

Did you see Spurr do something good with the ball in hand? That's what is killing us, especially when the pressure is on in the 1st qtr.

Weller, Spurr and Ibbo were all poor and cost us goals.

 

[SiempreFreo]

Spurr took at least 2 heroes' marks, as he does every game. His aerial capacity is surprisingly good.

And poor lamented Ibbo still comes good with a key intercept mark or three every game. But I agree with Sweetback, need someone in our backline who'll give it backbone, e.g. Sammy Collins. Those treetrunk legs don't give way easily.

 

[heavho]

His marking is good, it's what he does next that is the problem.

Did you see Spurr do something good with the ball in hand? That's what is killing us, especially when the pressure is on in the 1st qtr.

Weller, Spurr and Ibbo were all poor and cost us goals.

He didn't exactly do anything bad. His disposal was 100% according to the stats. Took plenty of marks and that's what you want your defender to do to save it from being a mark down in defense by your opponent. Held his opponent to limited shots. He is prob our best small defender other than weller. Ryan is coming through and should get a go at some stage but for me being in the leadership group spurr won't come out and the like of ibbotson,sutcliffe etc will be out way before him

 

[westy1]

after watching it at the ground then a replay
all i can say is that those calling for ibbo and spurr must be blind or have some fixation with youth or don't do football
ibbo was back to doing what he does best, intercept marking ,playing taller than he is,akin to his best football
spurr ,same, marking the ball deep in defence with little or no regard to his own well being

 

[heavho]

after watching it at the ground then a replay
all i can say is that those calling for ibbo and spurr must be blind or have some fixation with youth or don't do football
ibbo was back to doing what he does best, intercept marking ,playing taller than he is,akin to his best football
spurr ,same, marking the ball deep in defence with little or no regard to his own well being

Ibbotson is a great player when he intercepts the footy but that's due to playing that loose man in defense and playing off opponent. Collins could play that role and do just as good as a job if not better. Ibbotson lacks awareness of what's around him and gets holding the ball right in front of goal and that's in a lot of games not just the one against essendon. We can't afford that sort of lack of awareness in a player of his experience and age.

 

[wayToGo_]

I am not anti Spurr but I want all our players to be held accountable and to put the best 22 on the field we can. He only had 3 intercepts for the game. The lowest of all our defenders I think, so it's not like he was some intercept marking God like some are making out. Can someone point me to a few passages of play where he did good things? I have honestly struggled to find some and that did surprise me.

 

[heavho]

I am not anti Spurr but I want all our players to be held accountable and to put the best 22 on the field we can. He only had 3 intercepts for the game. The lowest of all our defenders I think, so it's not like he was some intercept marking God like some are making out. Can someone point me to a few passages of play where he did good things? I have honestly struggled to find some and that did surprise me. Did you watch anything other than the 3rd quarter ? And micro be micro critical of each minute of that? Maybe that's the answer lol

 

[wayToGo_]

He wasn't any better in the 2nd and 4th but I can't be bothered writing up a long analysis if people just rebut it with "but he had 100% DE rubbish". Dawson used to get 100% DE - enough said. I need to watch the first quarter again because I think that must be where people have seen him do some good things.

Would love to hear a semi decent argument from you if you have it in you

 

[heavho]

He wasn't any better in the 2nd and 4th but I can't be bothered writing up a long analysis if people just rebut it with "but he had 100% DE rubbish". Dawson used to get 100% DE - enough said. I need to watch the first quarter again because I think that must be where people have seen him do some good things.

Would love to hear a semi decent argument from you if you have it in you

I think it's great that you can watch one individual and find mistakes but you could do that with just about every player on the team. There isn't such a thing as the perfect 100% player. There are probably a number of players that could fall under your "micro"criticism for the night. Over a number of years spurr has always done his job and actually marked the footy rather than done a Dawson and just thump it to no mans land. He also kicks the footy too with 100% efficiency if Dawson did that it would be -50%. I ain't going to watch the game again. I saw critical errors by other players like ibbotson for example holding the ball that stood out but going back and watching each minute is a waste of time

 

[blue shark]

He wasn't any better in the 2nd and 4th but I can't be bothered writing up a long analysis if people just rebut it with "but he had 100% DE rubbish". Dawson used to get 100% DE - enough said. I need to watch the first quarter again because I think that must be where people have seen him do some good things.

Would love to hear a semi decent argument from you if you have it in you

Ibbo, Spurr, need to be kept on their toes, the new shiny toys are starting to look good. Also I think
it is finally sinking in with Ross, that talent wins the close games over system.
If JJ is available who honestly thinks there's a place for these two?

 

[Square Peg]

I'll try and mount an argument to the wTG analysis that seems to focus on small things not big pictures.
Who has kicked more goals and looked more dangerous than Fantasia this year as a small forward? Betts? Toby Greene? Not many others. When you keep him goalless and Josh Green and Tipungwuti to two goals between them and limited impact, the small defenders have done their job. They work well as a team doing what all small defenders try and do, keep goal side and body their opponent away from dangerous areas. In Spurr's case he also has license to impact and try and mark the ball which he does well. His kicking is not elite but it isn't shithouse.
Essendon's talls looked a dozen times more dangerous than their smalls. Hamling was outplayed. Both their tall forwards got coaches votes.

 

[malpaso]

I think Ibbo is just too one-dimensional, I don't think he anticipates the play very well in terms of once he has the ball what is he going to do with it. Maybe that's because he is not aware of where and what his teammates are doing.
He seems conflicted in his direct assignment and taking the game on and if he is going to be the plus+1 then he needs to be a better distributor and create the play. Weller does this and although he had a poor game on the weekend, he will try and drive us forward on every occasion.

 

[Lach72]

I'll try and mount an argument to the wTG analysis that seems to focus on small things not big pictures.
Who has kicked more goals and looked more dangerous than Fantasia this year as a small forward? Betts? Toby Greene? Not many others. When you keep him goalless and Josh Green and Tipungwuti to two goals between them and limited impact, the small defenders have done their job. They work well as a team doing what all small defenders try and do, keep goal side and body their opponent away from dangerous areas. In Spurr's case he also has license to impact and try and mark the ball which he does well. His kicking is not elite but it isn't shithouse.
Essendon's talls looked a dozen times more dangerous than their smalls. Hamling was outplayed. Both their tall forwards got coaches votes.

I'd agree with your analysis...BUT...ball movement is our Achilles heel is ball movement from half back.

I'd ditch Ibbo before Spurr.
I want someone who can mark the ball, but also pull the trigger and use it well.
We're in the rebuilding stage. This is the ideal time to find that person and Logue and Ryan should be given every opportunity when expectation is low.....

 

[Square Peg]

I'd agree with your analysis...BUT...ball movement is our Achilles heel is ball movement from half back.

I'd ditch Ibbo before Spurr.
I want someone who can mark the ball, but also pull the trigger and use it well.
We're in the rebuilding stage. This is the ideal time to find that person and Logue and Ryan should be given every opportunity when expectation is low.....

Yeah I'd get rid of Ibbo before Spurr too.
As long as weller continues to be given a long run at it down there to grow into that distributor role I'm satisfied. He had a nightmare in the first quarter on Sunday, just needs to be encouraged not to drop his head as he can become an excellent playmaker down there.
A Pearce missing is what is stuffing us up structurally of course.

 

[wayToGo_]

I'll try and mount an argument to the wTG analysis that seems to focus on small things not big pictures.
Who has kicked more goals and looked more dangerous than Fantasia this year as a small forward? Betts? Toby Greene? Not many others. When you keep him goalless and Josh Green and Tipungwuti to two goals between them and limited impact, the small defenders have done their job. They work well as a team doing what all small defenders try and do, keep goal side and body their opponent away from dangerous areas. In Spurr's case he also has license to impact and try and mark the ball which he does well. His kicking is not elite but it isn't shithouse.
Essendon's talls looked a dozen times more dangerous than their smalls. Hamling was outplayed. Both their tall forwards got coaches votes.

Completely agree with this but Spurr wasn't on Fantasia a lot of the game. For instance he wasn't on him at all in the 3rd quarter where I provided that analysis. That's kind of my point. Plenty have made the assumption that he kept their dangerous smalls quiet but was it him?

 

[Frigate]

I am not anti Spurr but I want all our players to be held accountable and to put the best 22 on the field we can. He only had 3 intercepts for the game. The lowest of all our defenders I think, so it's not like he was some intercept marking God like some are making out. Can someone point me to a few passages of play where he did good things? I have honestly struggled to find some and that did surprise me.

I don't have the time to go through that again, however what a lot of people seem to be missing is that the game is won and lost in the midfield.
Essendon were dominating down the corridor far too easily, and that puts enormous pressure on our defence.

Equally damaging is the easy shots on goal we missed. Crozier, Kersten to name a few. Our last quarter and a half pumped up the performance of many players, and it was effectively a training drill. We will not have that luxury against Richmond at the G.

I really like the youngsters in the team, and the energy is great, and it has been a feature of our game to overrun teams, however the reality is that Essendon could have almost put us to bed in the first half. Perhaps we are understating how well the defence actually held up.

Long bombs into the forward line is another concern to me. It worked on the weekend (no wind, perfect temperature, 3 talls), but only by extremely poor play by Essendon with multiple goals coming from goal-side crumbs, or the unusually high amount of contested marks we took. All I am saying is that we are flattering a lot of players. The chances of Taberner backing up that performance is highly unlikely against Richmond. This is not a criticism, it is just my opinion based on his career to date.

So we can muddle with our defence, however that will not address the real problems we had in the first half.