Saints, Dogs, Dockers, Lions. Who finishes highest in 2019?

[SHill Shall]

Nah not particularly. I don’t think the Saints are as bad as their performances this year made them look, and I’ve built in a bit of improvement in the Dockers on the back of their draft and trade periods. Should that not come to fruition I probably have the Saints and Dockers about level pegging.

Fine - it’s an opinions business. Imo we were well better than them last year and I like our shiny new toys better than theirs.

 

[Walkingwounded]

Nah not particularly. I don’t think the Saints are as bad as their performances this year made them look, and I’ve built in a bit of improvement in the Dockers on the back of their draft and trade periods. Should that not come to fruition I probably have the Saints and Dockers about level pegging.

The Dogs need to win most games at Marvel stadium and the Lions and Dockers need to win more home games.

The Saints need to fill a few more holes in their list.

After 6 rounds next year we will have an idea who is likely to make the most progress out of these 4.

However, I’m under no illusions that GC and Carlton will be anything but Shiite, so will be fighting it out for the wooden spoon.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Fine - it’s an opinions business. Imo we were well better than them last year and I like our shiny new toys better than theirs.

I don’t really subscribe to that theory. I think genuine home ground advantage keeps you closer to the middle of the table than Victorian sides, given a poor Victorian side will lose more neutral games. For that reason I look at percentage when assessing the two sides, and there was negligible difference between the two. I agree Freo have more upside due to their off-season move, plus the natural advantage that comes when being an interstate side that’s below average over a Victorian side in the same position. I’d loathe to take either side as an easy win though and hence I don’t agree with you putting words in my mouth about the difference being ‘daylight’

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Brad Hill - shadow of the player he was at Hawthorn
Des Hedland - nothing on what he was at Brisbane
Peter Bell - much much better when he was at the Roo's
Harley Bennell - need i say more
Heath Black - after his stint back in Melbourne coming back to freo
Adam McPhee - never reached the hights he did when at essendon
Josh Carr - was little more than a thug in Freo
Scott Gumbleton - you could argue he was a spud at Essendon but he was even more sud like at freo
Hambling - key figure in the Dogs flag but not got anywhere near that at freo
McCarthy - one break out year with GWS and has not looked close to doing it again

not returning home but players to come to freo and become spuds :
Trent Croad
Chris Tarrant
Dean Solomon
Danyle Pearce
Colin Sylvia....

its prob too early to make a call on Wilson and Matera but their first season didnt set the world on fire

the facts are right there ..
in fact the only players i can think of that started at another club and became better while at freo was Luke Mcpharlan and Troy Cook... correct me if im wrong ..

 

[MCG-Unit]

Saints I hope

 

[SHill Shall]

I I’d loathe to take either side as an easy win though and hence I don’t agree with you putting words in my mouth about the difference being ‘daylight’

Very well explained - except that I wasn’t putting words in your mouth, but rather presenting a materially different opinion from yours.

 

[FirstAccount]

I don’t really subscribe to that theory. I think genuine home ground advantage keeps you closer to the middle of the table than Victorian sides, given a poor Victorian side will lose more neutral games. For that reason I look at percentage when assessing the two sides, and there was negligible difference between the two. I agree Freo have more upside due to their off-season move, plus the natural advantage that comes when being an interstate side that’s below average over a Victorian side in the same position. I’d loathe to take either side as an easy win though and hence I don’t agree with you putting words in my mouth about the difference being ‘daylight’

Just disregard any interstate travel factor. Yes, that makes sense :S

 

[Tarkyn_24]

Very well explained - except that I wasn’t putting words in your mouth, but rather presenting a materially different opinion from yours.

Fair enough, I re-read your post and I misunderstood.

Just disregard any interstate travel factor. Yes, that makes sense :S

I’m not, I just said it’s why I don’t think there’s much separating your teams on 2018 form?

 

[lewdogs]

Very well explained - except that I wasn’t putting words in your mouth, but rather presenting a materially different opinion from yours.

If you take the form over the past two or three years Saints would be well ahead of Freo. We had a poor 2018 but Freo have been terrible for three seasons in a row. The gap between our sides is certainly not daylight.

 

[Unique Name]

If you take the form over the past two or three years Saints would be well ahead of Freo. We had a poor 2018 but Freo have been terrible for three seasons in a row. The gap between our sides is certainly not daylight.

Do you think a game played in 2016 holds much relevance in this debate?


Anyway, this year should be a good indication as we play twice.

 

[estibador]

Suggesting Hamling has stagnated or gone backwards at Freo is ignorant and wrong.

Yep anyone who thinks Hamling hasn't been great for us hasn't been paying attention. Some people are slow to catch on to how well players are playing unless the media have been pumping them up.

In fact a lot of that poster's ratings of our players makes me think they didn't watch them much at Freo and are basing their opinions on the increased media profile they had when they were over east.

 

[Damon_3388]

Yep anyone who thinks Hamling hasn't been great for us hasn't been paying attention. Some people are slow to catch on to how well players are playing unless the media have been pumping them up.

In fact a lot of that poster's ratings of our players makes me think they didn't watch them much at Freo and are basing their opinions on the increased media profile they had when they were over east.

Joel Hamling had a "media profile" when over east?

 

[estibador]

Joel Hamling had a "media profile" when over east?

He was (deservedly) talked up a lot after his finals series. Not so much anymore despite maintaining a high standard of performance since coming here.

The fact even Dogs supporters are disagreeing with the aforementioned poster's overrating of Dogs-era Hamling shows how influenced his opinion is by that post finals media hype.

 

[Virgin Dog]

He was (deservedly) talked up a lot after his finals series. Not so much anymore despite maintaining a high standard of performance since coming here.

The fact even Dogs supporters are disagreeing with the aforementioned poster's overrating of Dogs-era Hamling shows how influenced his opinion is by that post finals media hype.

If Hamling didn't play 2016 finals, you guys would have got him for peanuts and he'd be remembered as an average player with us at best. His finals massively improved public perception of him. He showed he can be a decent player, and he has done well so far at Freo, but he is far from elite at this stage

 

[The Joker]

If Hamling didn't play 2016 finals, you guys would have got him for peanuts and he'd be remembered as an average player with us at best. His finals massively improved public perception of him. He showed he can be a decent player, and he has done well so far at Freo, but he is far from elite at this stage

Yeah, but has he gone backwards at Freo like someone has told us is fact?

 

[Schauermann]

I'd like to say Freo but not confident at all. Think we could be big improvers, but Brisbane look capable as well. Dogs hard to judge. Don't really rate St.Kilda's list. But who knows in the end it will be the side that has youngster and new recruits do well and can keep most of their best 22 on field more the majority of the season...

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Nah not particularly. I don’t think the Saints are as bad as their performances this year made them look, and I’ve built in a bit of improvement in the Dockers on the back of their draft and trade periods. Should that not come to fruition I probably have the Saints and Dockers about level pegging.

no no no dont you get it ive obviously hit a raw nerve with the poor little Freo darlings so therefore anything St Kilda is terrible (im actually surprised the word culture hasnt been mentioned yet)
such thin skinned supporters at least other team supporters will put together a reasoned responce to why they disagree with an opposing point of veiw ... Freo fans seem to just go with the "you are dillusional" yet cant seem to back that comment up with anything ... i asked a pretty simple question of what players have improved from what they were at their original club and only one of the Freo darlings had the balls to at least try to put a list together (too bad 80% of them were players from the early 90's) ....
so instead of playing the man and calling me dillusional prove me wrong Freo fans ... i have already conceeded Spider Burton as i had forgoten about him ... im also conceeding that Hamling is prob not worse but same same on what he was at the dogs and im open to the concession that to Freo fans they would believe Hill is better than he was at Hawthorn (i dont agree but eh) ... so what exactly am i dilusional about ?
if i say something i back it up with a reason for my belief on that subject ... the Freo fans here seem happy to just throw mud cause my opinion hurts their feelings ...

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

no no no dont you get it ive obviously hit a raw nerve with the poor little Freo darlings so therefore anything St Kilda is terrible (im actually surprised the word culture hasnt been mentioned yet)
such thin skinned supporters at least other team supporters will put together a reasoned responce to why they disagree with an opposing point of veiw ... Freo fans seem to just go with the "you are dillusional" yet cant seem to back that comment up with anything ... i asked a pretty simple question of what players have improved from what they were at their original club and only one of the Freo darlings had the balls to at least try to put a list together (too bad 80% of them were players from the early 90's) ....
so instead of playing the man and calling me dillusional prove me wrong Freo fans ... i have already conceeded Spider Burton as i had forgoten about him ... im also conceeding that Hamling is prob not worse but same same on what he was at the dogs and im open to the concession that to Freo fans they would believe Hill is better than he was at Hawthorn (i dont agree but eh) ... so what exactly am i dilusional about ?
if i say something i back it up with a reason for my belief on that subject ... the Freo fans here seem happy to just throw mud cause my opinion hurts their feelings ...

We get it. Your doing everything possible to rile Freo supporters while giving the usual troll deflections and justifications.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

We get it. Your doing everything possible to rile Freo supporters while giving the usual troll deflections and justifications.

how am i trolling ? go back to my original post where i made comment that on paper Freo should be the team to make the big rise up the ladder (if anything thats the reverse of trolling) i then countered that with the comment that im still unsure though because Freo have a history of good players coming to them and not living up to experiance (some thing they clearly have had issue with over their history) it was not a dig at freo (if i wanted to do that i could have said many much worse things about that club)... i mean is this not a footy forum ? are we not here to discuss footy ?
if the Freo fans said they felt St Kilda were going to be the worst of the pack because the players my team have signed in the offseason i would explain how i disagree and how i fell the players we have signed are not the issue its the players we were not able to sign that is going to hurt my team , the fact we still lack any star power on any line ... i most certainly would not go on the defensive and call them dilusional or embarrasing for their opinion ..

 

[tonygeeks]

how am i trolling ? go back to my original post where i made comment that on paper Freo should be the team to make the big rise up the ladder (if anything thats the reverse of trolling) i then countered that with the comment that im still unsure though because Freo have a history of good players coming to them and not living up to experiance (some thing they clearly have had issue with over their history) it was not a dig at freo (if i wanted to do that i could have said many much worse things about that club)... i mean is this not a footy forum ? are we not here to discuss footy ?
if the Freo fans said they felt St Kilda were going to be the worst of the pack because the players my team have signed in the offseason i would explain how i disagree and how i fell the players we have signed are not the issue its the players we were not able to sign that is going to hurt my team , the fact we still lack any star power on any line ... i most certainly would not go on the defensive and call them dilusional or embarrasing for their opinion ..

I've already agreed that out trading hasn't been great but your argument is flawed because it's very subjective and you can say the same thing about so many trades across the league

has Carlisle played better football for you guys than the Bombers ?

Is Hannerbry going to reach his Swans heights with you guys ?

Probably not or at the best arguable but it doesn't mean it's a bad trade for you guys does it ?

Why do we need Hogan and Lobb to be better , just don't be a total bust and carry on as they have been will do us very nicely


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I've already agreed that out trading hasn't been great but your argument is flawed because it's very subjective and you can say the same thing about so many trades across the league

has Carlisle played better football for you guys than the Bombers ?

Is Hannerbry going to reach his Swans heights with you guys ?

Probably not or at the best arguable but it doesn't mean it's a bad trade for you guys does it ?

Why do we need Hogan and Lobb to be better , just don't be a total bust and carry on as they have been will do us very nicely


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

Pretty sure Lobb will have his best season since 2016. He's had chronic groin soreness and had to rest last off season. He was finally coming good at the end of the year. Then left, but you get that.

 

[tonygeeks]

Pretty sure Lobb will have his best season since 2016. He's had chronic groin soreness and had to rest last off season. He was finally coming good at the end of the year. Then left, but you get that.

That would be nice , I just hope he brings that bit of agro he found late in the year with him


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I've already agreed that out trading hasn't been great but your argument is flawed because it's very subjective and you can say the same thing about so many trades across the league

has Carlisle played better football for you guys than the Bombers ?

Is Hannerbry going to reach his Swans heights with you guys ?

Probably not or at the best arguable but it doesn't mean it's a bad trade for you guys does it ?

Why do we need Hogan and Lobb to be better , just don't be a total bust and carry on as they have been will do us very nicely

finally a decent response...
i would think that you would expect the guys you have brought in to get better or at least be the equal of what they were , for the Saints comparison Carslie i think has been better with the saints based purely in the fact he has had a lot less to work with around him hes been our best defender in a defence that has had a mountain of ball coming in regularly .. with Hannas i hope he can get back to that form that saw him one of the best mids in the comp but realistically he most likely wont reach that height its his leadership and experiance that will give my team more than his actual playing output ...
the thing with Freo from my observation is that you can develop players through the draft but sometimes the guys coming home tend to be a little complacent , maybe its the fanfare they come in with , maybe its the fact they are more comfortable at home, maybe its the people they have around them ? as you say the wost possible thing would be if Hogan or Lobb becomes a Bennell and McCarthy because if they do live up to their potential and become solid contributors to the team then Freo could push deep into finals contention in 2019 ..
the other question mark i have is if Ross Lyon can coach a team with a focal point up forward like Hogan ... he game plan doesnt naturally suit a player like Hogan so either hogan needs to fit the lyon plan or the lyon plan needs to change to fit hogan ....

honestly Freo are up in the air with me i could see them top four and not be surprised or i could see them bottom 4 .. chances are they will be neither but potentially could be either ... by contrast at best i can see my team just making the 8 at worst we are bottom 3 again

 

[The Joker]

no no no dont you get it ive obviously hit a raw nerve with the poor little Freo darlings so therefore anything St Kilda is terrible (im actually surprised the word culture hasnt been mentioned yet)
such thin skinned supporters at least other team supporters will put together a reasoned responce to why they disagree with an opposing point of veiw ... Freo fans seem to just go with the "you are dillusional" yet cant seem to back that comment up with anything ... i asked a pretty simple question of what players have improved from what they were at their original club and only one of the Freo darlings had the balls to at least try to put a list together (too bad 80% of them were players from the early 90's) ....
so instead of playing the man and calling me dillusional prove me wrong Freo fans ... i have already conceeded Spider Burton as i had forgoten about him ... im also conceeding that Hamling is prob not worse but same same on what he was at the dogs and im open to the concession that to Freo fans they would believe Hill is better than he was at Hawthorn (i dont agree but eh) ... so what exactly am i dilusional about ?
if i say something i back it up with a reason for my belief on that subject ... the Freo fans here seem happy to just throw mud cause my opinion hurts their feelings ...

Cool story, Bruh.

"time and time again good players coming home to Freo have a tendancy to become shadows of the players they were at their old clubs"

"to come to freo and become spuds"

"The facts are right there"

Who the * wants to waste their time having a decent conversation with you. Take the s**t it deserves and be happy with that!!!

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Cool story, Bruh.

"time and time again good players coming home to Freo have a tendancy to become shadows of the players they were at their old clubs"

"to come to freo and become spuds"

"The facts are right there"

Who the **** wants to waste their time having a decent conversation with you. Take the s**t it deserves and be happy with that!!!

nice selective quoting there .... you cant actually give me any solid answers to disprove what i say so you selectivly misquote me to make your point ... wow quality right there ...
for the record if you were to quote me properly it reads :

"from the outside looking at who they got to the club you could argue that they are due for a massive lift but as we have seen time and time again good players coming home to Freo have a tendency to become shadows of the players they were at their old clubs "

"not returning home but players to come to freo and become spuds :
Trent Croad
Chris Tarrant
Dean Solomon
Danyle Pearce
Colin Sylvia...."


"its prob too early to make a call on Wilson and Matera but their first season didnt set the world on fire
the facts are right there ..
in fact the only players i can think of that started at another club and became better while at freo was Luke Mcpharlan and Troy Cook... correct me if im wrong ."

i would have thought over the years Freo fans would have developed a tougher skin in regards to people questioning their club ... never expected to see the triggered replys i have gotten over what i have said ... hell good luck to you if you have another poor season in 2019 cause what i have writen is bordering on a complement