Play Nice Scott Morrison 2.0 - How Long? Part 8 - Lose Unit. Game Over, Bulldozer. Cont in Part 9

[QuietB]

Part 5 is here:

Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 5 - The stroll out.

Continued in Part 6. https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-6-the-coal-man.1290651/

www.bigfooty.com

Part 6 is here:

Play Nice - Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 6 - Prosperity Theology, The Coal Man + His Bootlickers

Part 5 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-5-the-stroll-out.1275975/

www.bigfooty.com

Part 7 is here:

Play Nice - Scott Morrison - How Long? Part 7 - Prosperity Theology, The Coal Man + His Bootlickers

Part 5 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-5-the-stroll-out.1275975/ Part 6 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-6-prosperity-theology-the-coal-man-his-bootlickers.1290651/

www.bigfooty.com

Part 9 is here:

Play Nice - Scott Morrison in the Multiverse of Ministries.

Part 5 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-5-the-stroll-out.1275975/ Part 6 is here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/scott-morrison-how-long-part-6-prosperity-theology-the-coal-man-his-bootlickers.1290651/ Part 7 is here...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Schneebly11]

Does anyone think we will have any debates between SmoCo and Albanese during the election campaign?

Might go down like the Trump/Biden debate, Morrison just interrupting, throwing out wild accusations, attacking Albo's personal life (I bet he brings up Albo's student union past to try and paint him as a Communist sympathiser), attacking the moderator as being too "left wing", bringing up the same old talking points about Labor ("they'll increase your taxes") and everything else to deflect from criticism of his record. And no new policies of course.

 

[Strange Cat]

Might go down like the Trump/Biden debate, Morrison just interrupting, throwing out wild accusations, attacking Albo's personal life (I bet he brings up Albo's student union past to try and paint him as a Communist sympathiser), attacking the moderator as being too "left wing", bringing up the same old talking points about Labor ("they'll increase your taxes") and everything else to deflect from criticism of his record. And no new policies of course.

The way he’s carrying on in question time doesn’t give me much hope of a productive “debate”

Mind you he will actually have to call the election first

 

[Schneebly11]

Strange from that very article :

” After years of denials, China now acknowledges that history and has declared that the practice no longer occurs”

And

“The use of prisoners’ organs had left China a global pariah in the transplant field. Relying on prisoners caught in a corrupt and inhumane legal system, China had built the world’s second-largest transplant industry after the United States “

Sorry but I hardly believe anything from Winnie the Pooh on anything , dictators are going to be dictators

They probably are doing bad things that big countries looking to exert their influence do, but no worse than the USA which we follow into every war without question even though we have bugger all trade relationship with them.

It's because of the "yellow peril" mentality that Morrison and co know they can use to trigger hateful feelings in Australians to use to their advantage.

 

[Strange Cat]

They probably are doing bad things that big countries looking to exert their influence do, but no worse than the USA which we follow into every war without question even though we have bugger all trade relationship with them.

It's because of the "yellow peril" mentality that Morrison and co know they can use to trigger hateful feelings in Australians to use to their advantage.

Sorry but while I buy some of that I don’t agree with it entirely, China has a very poor human rights record and has had that for a very very long time now .

Yes you can point to America and say the same thing and I would largely agree with you to an extent , however untill China has an actual democratic system and allows their people to have some sort of voice I’ll side with the lessen evil between the two personally .

That doesn’t in anyway make it that I agree to the Libs dog whistling over fears of a “China invasion” btw

 

[Schneebly11]

The way he’s carrying on in question time doesn’t give me much hope of a productive “debate”

Mind you he will actually have to call the election first

Maybe go after Albo for his marriage break up to, abandoning his wife and child to have a fling with a younger woman or whatever dirt they can dig up on her?

Whereas "good Christian family values Scomo" has trotted out his wife and kids already, obvious he's going to snipe at Albo on that angle.

Don't think he'll do it? The right went after Tim Matheson, suggesting he was gay for being a hairdresser

 

[Strange Cat]

Maybe go after Albo for his marriage break up to, abandoning his wife and child to have a fling with a younger woman or whatever dirt they can dig up on her?

Whereas "good Christian family values Scomo" has trotted out his wife and kids already, obvious he's going to snipe at Albo on that angle.

Opens him to attacks about his character of his deputy …but the Libs aren’t concerned about being hypocrites

And ffs when will the public learn that it’s not a personality contest it’s which party is more competent for the job

 

[mighty tiges]

 

[Schneebly11]

And ffs when will the public learn that it’s not a personality contest it’s which party is more competent for the job

In the reality TV/social media driven image obsessed world of today you expect voters to think deeply about issues and make considered choices!

 

[Juddism]

I think this campaigner and dutton have made a mistake saying " CHINA " so much and not " THE CCP. "

Absolutely. Chinese folk living in Australia hate this shit...these two campaigners are too dumb to differentiate between the two.

It sounds ugly when they speak and I believe the public are smart enough to see through this shit.

 

[DaRick]

Might not be a bad election for the ALP to lose…debt is sky high, prices are on the up, wages are sh*t, coal plants are closing…why would you want to inherit this sh*t?

There is never a good election to lose, because the consequences of bad governments getting second terms compound, and the effects are not felt by those who can take it but the most vulnerable within our society.

Better by far, even if sh*t hits the fan, that the Coalition is voted out and Labor at least gets an opportunity to try and address things.

Yeah, literally every lost election is a bad election to lose when the alternative is reactionaries.

A 'good election to lose' is playing further into accepting the losing culture/mediocrity of the ALP.

And that's ignoring the real world implications for so many of our less fortunate.

In general, I side with the second view (any election victory is good, and if you lose too often, a fear of success may take over because you're so used to losing), but 2019 may be one of the few exceptions.

This is because no government would want to handle a pandemic + a serious recession during their term, especially if said pandemic and economic difficulties resurface in different forms. That's a crisis situation, and in crisis situations governments make mistakes, even relatively competent ones. People are generally pretty forgiving of such mistakes if it looks like you're at least taking the pandemic threat seriously, but as Dan Andrews discovered, people become altogether less charitable if the body count increases due to your mistakes. From memory more Victorians than not supported him, so he would have retained a majority had an election been held that year, but IMO not a comfortable one because there was a lot of anger over that, and he may have felt forced to resign in the face of an emboldened opposition. Luckily for him, he did not have to make that choice.

Assuming that the polls were accurate in 2019, the ALP would have 80 seats to play with - a clear majority, but far from insurmountable. They would have handled the pandemic better than the LNP on the whole, but ScoMo would have ruthlessly seized on any mistake. The Murdoch media are overrated in terms of winning elections IMO, but they would have given him some heft, especially if "LABOR'S DEBT" increased, as would inevitably have happened. Quite a few people would have bought this.

A massive recession would also still have occured, (unfairly) justifying the ALP's reputation as poorer economic managers than the LNP. Plus, mistakes would inevitably have been made RE vaccine rollouts/border closures/Delta/OMICRON. The Higgins controversy would not have affected the ALP directly per se, but it may well have emboldened someone from the ALP side to speak up, hurting him more than ScoMo since he would be running the government and so be perceived to be more responsible for what's going on in Parliament House (not to mention that those old rape allegations would have been raised, not unlike with Porter). This is not unlike how the Higgins controversy represented the first real chink in ScoMo's polling armour, since it was not a normal controversy, but rather a blood crime (rape) which was gaining momentum rather than fizzling out within a couple of weeks like other controversies.

The ALP's more competent handling of events would enable them to remain competitive, but they faced a tenacious, aggressive individual who knew how to market himself against an incumbent that IMO would never truly have been popular - and moreover, since ScoMo hadn't become PM, his flaws in that role wouldn't yet have been exposed. Many more people would have been inclined to give him a go, especially since some deaths would have occurred, especially among older people, and that would have increased anger towards Shorten. The polls wouldn't have been 45-55, but it'd be a repeat of 2010, with Shorten needing to save the day with his superior negotiation skills. Even if he did though, the ALP would have lost handily in 2028. If he couldn't, then it'd be difficult for the ALP to actually win government for a while because the 'LABOR'S DEBT' and 'LABOR'S RECESSION' would have stuck to them for at least 2 terms.

From a humane perspective, the ALP's loss in 2019 was a tragedy. However, from a political perspective, the LNP have had to raise debt, they've endured several economic slumps and they've more or less given up any pretence of good governance. Plus, the party has visibly been falling apart, with ScoMo's colleagues openly undermining him RE the RDA signifying his lack of internal authority. Moreover, Albanese is more Beazley than Shorten - he's uncharismatic, but he's so grey that it's hard to define him particularly negatively - not unlike Howard in 1995.

Having no other options, and not really being able to campaign on trust - since ScoMo is widely distrusted whereas Albo isn't - they've tried to create a Tampa out of China. For reasons I've outlined yesterday, I think that strategy will ultimately be self-defeating.

Given how the LNP are visibly falling apart, they'd better hope that the economy is well and truly booming come May, and that COVID has been forgotten.

Could this happen? Well, online spending has picked up and the jobless rate is encouraging, which suggests that wages should grow in-between now and May. On the other hand, I suspect the jobless rate is as low as it is partially because people have been discouraged from looking for work due to there being a pandemic resulting in mass business closures and shadow lockdowns, plus Centrelink doesn't register all of Australia's unemployed - only the unemployed who register with them.

I don't think COVID will be forgotten - seeing your relatives die to it would have a marked, lasting impact on you, especially if you feel it was caused partially by government negligence - but has seemingly peaked in NSW. That said, BA.2 will ensure that it lingers for longer than the LNP would have liked, and the LNP had better hope that there's no new COVID variant in the pipeline...

Even if the economy/pandemic situation are looking good come May, will that save the LNP? Much depends on 1) their own campaign (going all anti-China will IMO backfire, though I expect them to tout the economic/pandemic situation as well), 2) the ALP's campaign and 3) how visibly the LNP are falling apart. Voters are less inclined to vote for parties that appear unable to govern themselves, especially if the opposition looks relatively stable and isn't putting forth any scary policies, which Albo hasn't.

Right now, I'm still giving Albo a 65% chance of victory, but if the LNP continue to self-destruct, I'd say 65-70%.

 

[Juddism]

Are we going to pretend that the CCP are not horrible campaigners that kidnaps and harvest body parts from their citizens ?

I’m not a fan of Morrison attacking China , but it seems strange that there little criticism of the CCP practices around here

So, knowing all that, why did the LNP seek an FTA with the CCP? They were conmiess 8 years ago and were commies 40+ years ago, yet we wanted to lay down with them.

 

[madmug]

China's Communist Party government enjoys high levels of approval amongst the population, for things like rapid eradication of poverty and an expanding middle class, and better handling of Covid than America. Something like 1 out 13 Chinese are members of the party, it isn't like Australia where so few are members of a political party, it's more ingrained in their culture, and attacking it may come across as an attack on China as a whole

Many in China become members of the CCP as its seen as the way to 'get to the top'. Like in Iraq with the Bath party or in the USSR as party members.

The CCP claimed the economic successes & blamed others for failures, or just hid them. In reality all the CCP did was let western capitalist companies into the place & use the initially cheap labour.

The CCP play the nationalist card at every opportunity & they control the media, so the people are lied to about everything. Even so, the people see the corruption at every level. Also the place is polluted to buggery. That is a massive problem that is only now coming to light.

One might think the CCP will have a lot of trouble keeping a lid on the 1.4 billion Chinese forever. They'll need to provide jobs, housing, food & a clean environment, otherwise the shyte could hit the fan at some stage.

 

[DaRick]

I think this campaigner and dutton have made a mistake saying " CHINA " so much and not " THE CCP. "

Yep - the LNP are drifting dangerously close towards ON-style xenophobia.

Even in Brisbane's relatively whitebread outer-metro suburbs, that's far from a surefire vote winner.

 

[Pessimistic]

Because Murdoch (and a lot of non Murdoch) media have been on a multi decade project to make the term "left wing" mean "pure evil". Notice how they never really call themselves right wing or conservative, but always position themselves in the centre (silent majority). So anyone to their left is a far left communist.

ALP have some blame here too. They should've stood up and embraced the term "socialist" and done a better job pointing out the benefits of what progressive Labor governments have done. But like the US Democrats they're being dragged to the right by their abject fear of being labelled left wing. Weakness to combat the rabid right has caused permanent harm.

Dans elections have embraced the colour red enthusiastically, although his govt is quite fiscally conservative

 

[Strange Cat]

So, knowing all that, why did the LNP seek an FTA with the CCP? They were conmiess 8 years ago and were commies 40+ years ago, yet we wanted to lay down with them.

shrugs….money would be the most obvious answer

 

[Schneebly11]

Yep - the LNP are drifting dangerously close towards ON-style xenophobia.

Even in Brisbane's relatively whitebread outer-metro suburbs, that's far from a surefire vote winner.

It found 47 per cent of respondents held negative views towards Chinese Australians.

Nearly half of all participants also expressed negative feelings towards Iraqis and Sudanese, and above 40 per cent held negative attitudes towards Lebanese Australians.

When it comes to religion, intolerance towards Muslims remains far higher than any other faith group with 37 per cent indicating a "negative view" towards those who follow Islam.

Do you think immigrants should adopt Australian values? Over half the people in this survey said yes

Australians overwhelmingly think that having a multicultural society is a good thing, but only if people who immigrate here adopt "Australian" values and integrate, a report finds.

www.abc.net.au

More Australians now hold negative views towards Chinese Australians (not just Chinese, Chinese Australians) than Lebanese or Muslim Australians. And we know how vicious the slandering of Muslims has been from the right to win elections. And they now know there's more hated views towards Chinese Australians. It doesn't take a genius to see what is about to occur.

The next 3 months are not going to be a good time to be ethnically Chinese or Asian (the bogans won't see a difference) in Australia, and this will incur permanent harm in our relationship with Asia.

 

[DaRick]

interesting fact. Norway's strong social welfare system is because in the mid 19th century a lot of their hardcore religious types and farmers (more conservative) migrated to the US (mostly the mid West), along with other Scandinavians. Leaving the rest of the country free to implement more social welfare policies without conservatives sh*tting their pants about it..

The problem with AUS is that it's a former British colony and so has been infected with that Puritan work ethic ethos. Hence the crapping on about dole bludgers even though that's an antiquated concept.

Norway has Protestant origins, but they lack those same Puritan roots.

 

[campbell]

Does anyone think we will have any debates between SmoCo and Albanese during the election campaign?

I hope not.

 

[Strange Cat]

The problem with AUS is that it's a former British colony and so has been infected with that Puritan work ethic ethos. Hence the crapping on about dole bludgers even though that's an antiquated concept.

Norway has Protestant origins, but they lack those same Puritan roots.

So you’re saying we are ****ed ?

 

[NSWCROW]

The problem with AUS is that it's a former British colony and so has been infected with that Puritan work ethic ethos. Hence the crapping on about dole bludgers even though that's an antiquated concept.

Norway has Protestant origins, but they lack those same Puritan roots.

Bang on

That classic brit nose-in-the-air bullshit

We're only 200 odd years removed

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

 

[Bestbird]

Sorry but while I buy some of that I don’t agree with it entirely, China has a very poor human rights record and has had that for a very very long time now .

Yes you can point to America and say the same thing and I would largely agree with you to an extent , however untill China has an actual democratic system and allows their people to have some sort of voice I’ll side with the lessen evil between the two personally .

That doesn’t in anyway make it that I agree to the Libs dog whistling over fears of a “China invasion” btw

Note that the US is not exactly a shining example of democracy, more so recently.

It is a real worry that the world in general is become more beholden to Authoritarian governments.

The dog whistling by the Lnp this weeks is quite sad in that respect as well as it from those type of governments playbook

 

[campbell]

It found 47 per cent of respondents held negative views towards Chinese Australians.

Nearly half of all participants also expressed negative feelings towards Iraqis and Sudanese, and above 40 per cent held negative attitudes towards Lebanese Australians.

When it comes to religion, intolerance towards Muslims remains far higher than any other faith group with 37 per cent indicating a "negative view" towards those who follow Islam.

Do you think immigrants should adopt Australian values? Over half the people in this survey said yes

Australians overwhelmingly think that having a multicultural society is a good thing, but only if people who immigrate here adopt "Australian" values and integrate, a report finds.

www.abc.net.au

More Australians now hold negative views towards Chinese Australians (not just Chinese, Chinese Australians) than Lebanese or Muslim Australians. And we know how vicious the slandering of Muslims has been from the right to win elections. And they now know there's more hated views towards Chinese Australians. It doesn't take a genius to see what is about to occur.

The next 3 months are not going to be a good time to be ethnically Chinese or Asian (the bogans won't see a difference) in Australia, and this will incur permanent harm in our relationship with Asia.

They hate us First Nations people as well.

So what.

We are a racist country, fuelled by the media.

 

[Festerz]

It is a real worry that the world in general is become more beholden to Authoritarian governments.

The dog whistling by the Lnp this weeks is quite sad in that respect as well as it from those type of governments playbook

Utter rubbish.

A political party in government facing annihilation is pulling every dirty trick out of the book to gain votes from a certain section of the voting public.

This has NOTHING to do with 'authoritarian governments'.

But everything to do with a political party that does not respect the importance of putting the nation and its people above cheap political rhetoric. And it is called out for doing so.

Be careful about confusing the robustness of our democratic system with the disgraceful behaviour of an administration that would seek to derail it for their own political benefit.

 

[Strange Cat]

Note that the US is not exactly a shining example of democracy, more so recently.

It is a real worry that the world in general is become more beholden to Authoritarian governments.

The dog whistling by the Lnp this weeks is quite sad in that respect as well as it from those type of governments playbook

I agree that America has been sliding right towards dictatorship/ authoritarian government with the way the republicans have trashed the system ( changin voting laws, Supreme Court judges ect al) But as it stands right now there aren’t any tanks driving over protestors and prisoners being harvest for their organs.

By large the population still has a voice …even if it’s slowly less and less potent as time goes on.