Strategy Selling the farm vs Retiring Premiership players at Richmond

[Lsta062]

Sides coming from a Premiership era can generally go one of two ways with their rebuilding strategy:

1. They can start selling the farm trading senior Premiership players for good picks. They may even do that for younger Premiership that they don’t see as part of the future. Or,

2. They retain their Premiership players and retire them (like we did with Astbury, Houli, Edwards, Riewoldt, and Cotchin).

On the one hand, selling the farm could make us Premiership standard sooner. On the other hand, this could backfire massively like it did for some successful/semi-successful teams and leave them in the wilderness for years.

Both strategies have varying implications in the short-term and long-term, so which strategy do you prefer moving forward?

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

 

[Lsta062]

View attachment 1787162

Lol me too, I’m conflicted about this as well. Both strategies have their positives and negatives. Interested to see what points people can bring up for either.

 

[Danw0w]

You also sell your culture when the club starts treating players like commodities.

We should have as many premiership players as possible finish their careers at Richmond.

 

[Lsta062]

You also sell your culture when the club starts treating players like commodities.

We should have as many premiership players as possible finish their careers at Richmond.

I think the culture aspect’s a good point. The only concern I have with that is whether that culture will disappear anyway now that Hardwick’s gone. Some of the culture’s already gone.

Hawthorn and North Melbourne were relatively ruthless with their veterans and that set them back IMO. They’re still in the bottom 4 now.

West Coast kept most (if not all) their Premiership players and are now terrible with their winning culture completely gone. They probably could’ve done better to just bite the bullet and get picks in for Premiership players.

Adelaide kept some, but offloaded others. While they’re not Premiership quality, they probably would’ve been terrible for longer if they kept all their 2017 Grand Final players until retirement.

So I feel like keeping Premiership players until they retire isn’t always the best strategy. It can be, but it’s not guaranteed.

 

[chriso11]

Trade role players with value (McIntosh, Broad) and let the hall of famers retire on their terms (eg Grimes)

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

 

[_RT_]

I've said it in other threads and will say it here.

The retirements of Castagna Tarrant Jack & Trent are all the enforced senior list changes I would make. Anyone who wants to explore a trade is welcome to, but the deal needs to be favorable to us. Outside that I wouldn't make too many changes at this stage. Let the new coach come in and see who they believe is worth keeping around and then act in 12 months time as our draft hand should be in much better shape than it is now.

 

[tony__montana]

Thats what list managers are paid for. You cant keep them all, thats just silly and you also cant get rid of them all. Everyone is frothing about the hawks now, but its easy to step up from being near bottom to mid table, a lot harder to then go on with it.

I suspect theyve got plenty more tough years ahead. Up to the list manager to determine who are the ones you keep and who you trade away. So far I think we've done it quite well but no one will ever change my mind that I beleive Jack went a year too long, the difference with balta competing against a backman vs jack getting smashed by his opponent makes a huge difference in how a game can pan out

 

[Mr Magic]

Trade role players with value (McIntosh, Broad) and let the hall of famers retire on their terms (eg Grimes)

this makes less sense than anything. Lose culture for no gain

 

[Mr Magic]

Sides coming from a Premiership era can generally go one of two ways with their rebuilding strategy:

1. They can start selling the farm trading senior Premiership players for good picks. They may even do that for younger Premiership that they don’t see as part of the future. Or,

2. They retain their Premiership players and retire them (like we did with Astbury, Houli, Edwards, Riewoldt, and Cotchin).

On the one hand, selling the farm could make us Premiership standard sooner. On the other hand, this could backfire massively like it did for some successful/semi-successful teams and leave them in the wilderness for years.

Both strategies have varying implications in the short-term and long-term, so which strategy do you prefer moving forward?

examples??

 

[Blinger]

I'm of the opinion that if a player wants to move on, we need to help facilitate the move. We need to start building again for the future. Also players such as Grimes, need to be told its time to hang up the boots & thank them for the contribution to our 3 premierships. I think we need to be smart about how we look into the future.
Also need to change our coaching across the board, simply for the fact our gameplan is well & truly outdated & the players need to develop the hunger to win again. As its sadly been lacking the last 2 seasons with the current coaching group.

 

[wegetpumped]

If we are going to rebuild as it looks like we have to I would trade any player over 26 with value for decent picks. I fear we might be 5 years away from a challenging list and they will be too old to help out. I would even trade Bolton for decent picks as he is more of a ballerina than a team player. His good is great but his bad is terrible like the game yesterday.

 

[Lsta062]

examples??

Hawthorn after 2013-2015 is an example of it backfiring.

Although Adelaide didn’t “sell the farm” as such, they moved on and retired some players from the 2017 Grand Final. I think this ended up speeding their rebuild. Don’t think they’d be where they are today if they just kept their senior players from the Grand Final era.

 

[chriso11]

If we are going to rebuild as it looks like we have to I would trade any player over 26 with value for decent picks. I fear we might be 5 years away from a challenging list and they will be too old to help out. I would even trade Bolton for decent picks as he is more of a ballerina than a team player. His good is great but his bad is terrible like the game yesterday.

You lost me when you said trade bolton. We should be keeping any A graders and build around them

Agree with you otherwise

 

[tiger_tough]

Id be trading Soldo and Ralphsmith and/or Graham.
Delist Biggie and Colina.
Trade Prestia if he does want to go otherwise keep him and everyone else.
Take on the Nick Haynes

19

Nick Haynes

Age

31

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

4.9

4star

M

6.2

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

326.8

4star

D

17.4

4star

K

13.9

5star

HB

3.5

2star

M

8.0

5star

T

1.5

2star

MG

326.8

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.2

4star

salary dump from GWS if it gets us a decent pick.
Trade for a KPF. Georgiades ideally. Someone who competes at least. Silvagni as free agent if no one else decent is available.
Get P Dow for token late pick
Get Gresham as a free agent
Try bundle up our picks for GCs first pick otherwise bring forward next years 1st into the year if possible.

 

[BF Tiger]

My preference is for the premiership stars to be retained and go out at Richmond. Thing is when they might not want to go out when the time is right, and why would they when a couple of hundred thousand dollars is on the table? The club probably needs to be a bit more brutal in that sense. That said I was happy for Cotch to get the contract this year and tick over 300 games, but I am questioning the likes of Grimes for next year.

If a player wants to move on then lets facilitate it. Deal has to beneficial to the club first and foremost, unless there are compassionate grounds.

Older players... we can offer them a contract and they might not like it. That places the club at risk of losing them for nothing or close to nothing if they are free agents. Getting second round speculative picks for established players, possibly premiership players... no thanks. So the club has to balance that, which is difficult I guess.

 

[PaulBulluss]

It's not even about this or that move. It's about attitude and approach. We haven't been proactive, that's the problem. And we haven't been consistent. One year in the draft, the next we're trading everything away.

 

[Mr Magic]

Hawthorn after 2013-2015 is an example of it backfiring.

Although Adelaide didn’t “sell the farm” as such, they moved on and retired some players from the 2017 Grand Final. I think this ended up speeding their rebuild. Don’t think they’d be where they are today if they just kept their senior players from the Grand Final era.

Hawthorn did not backfire at all.

It backfired when they brought players in like O'meara, Mitchell

They went backwards because they where to old and now starting to emerge from youth

Adelaide should have made finals this year, lol they are examples off letting elder statesman go

KB was always right going youth it is just this time we are so much more financially stronger

 

[Growapair]

Id be trading Soldo and Ralphsmith and/or Graham.
Delist Biggie and Colina.
Trade Prestia if he does want to go otherwise keep him and everyone else.
Take on the Nick Haynes salary dump from GWS if it gets us a decent pick.
Trade for a KPF. Georgiades ideally. Someone who competes at least. Silvagni as free agent if no one else decent is available.
Get P Dow for token late pick
Get Gresham as a free agent
Try bundle up our picks for GCs first pick otherwise bring forward next years 1st into the year if possible.

Gresham is a Restricted Free Agent, Saints have low balled just enough that a higher offer will get them a first round Compo.

Maybe our play would be to pay him enough to get them that pick, then play hard ball to get it from them in a trade for Ralph Smith lol

 

[Karp3_dm]

I've said it in other threads and will say it here.

The retirements of Castagna Tarrant Jack & Trent are all the enforced senior list changes I would make. Anyone who wants to explore a trade is welcome to, but the deal needs to be favorable to us. Outside that I wouldn't make too many changes at this stage. Let the new coach come in and see who they believe is worth keeping around and then act in 12 months time as our draft hand should be in much better shape than it is now.

Yep and the new coach unless he’s blind and delusional will see that McIntosh and Graham have to get off our list

 

[Ralll]

Sell the farm and start again is the best chance of another premiership window in the quickest time frame, but it may still take 10+ years to nail that core group of stars through the draft.

We will middle with our current strategy imo, but I'm ok with that as I feel for the supporters and their kids having to sit through those years down the bottom.

 

[Area51]

You also sell your culture when the club starts treating players like commodities.

We should have as many premiership players as possible finish their careers at Richmond.

Agree with this but at the same time some need to be tapped on the shoulder with the message being love to have you stay but games in the ones are no longer guaranteed and if it's line ball between you and a developing player we will prefer the developing player. If that works for everyone great. If they are desperate to eke out a few more AFL games with another team then wish them good luck. But actively shopping players around for picks against their will, not in favour.

 

[tora tora tora]

Id be trading Soldo and Ralphsmith and/or Graham.
Delist Biggie and Colina.
Trade Prestia if he does want to go otherwise keep him and everyone else.
Take on the Nick Haynes salary dump from GWS if it gets us a decent pick.
Trade for a KPF. Georgiades ideally. Someone who competes at least. Silvagni as free agent if no one else decent is available.
Get P Dow for token late pick
Get Gresham as a free agent
Try bundle up our picks for GCs first pick otherwise bring forward next years 1st into the year if possible.

$1 mil Haynes For a pick? I don't think GWS need to dump salary. What pick do we give for Prestia salary dump? Nothing high.

Silvagni + Dow + Gresham. SOS is a need. But too much Carlton in that name. Need Dow?

Jack R, Cotch, Tarrant, George off the books. Plus Soldo and Ralphsmith and/or Graham.
Delist Biggie and Colina. Kmac is out of contract

Who would you draft with the 1st rounder.

 

[beema limapep]

Sell most of the farm. Keep 2 or 3 oldies (e.g Broad, Lynch, probably Martin).

Vlastuin, Pickett, MacIntosh, Prestia, Grimes goodbye.