Shaun Higgins rated the worst kick in AFL by champion data

[catempire]

Over view....

People have inherent biases in the way they make decisions that mean they aren’t always rational or in their best interests.

Loosely put, you might say that applies here. In the way Kahneman intended it, it’s not relevant to this situation.

What some people are suggesting we believe is that a group of professionals whose sole job is to be successful at winning football games would be blinded by let’s say ego or pride, and would jeopardise winning football games by selecting a certain player.

The logic breaks down in so many places there and we have access to a much more obvious and straightforward explanation: Higgins is a very accomplished footballer, was as recently as two months ago clearly in our best 18, and if he can reclaim that form unequivocally enhances our premiership chances.

The Higgins we want to see again:

This Higgins kick is just pure gold

Cats recruit Shaun Higgins shows his absolute class with a beautiful delivery to Gary Rohan, who finishes off his work

www.afl.com.au

 

[Turbocat]

People have inherent biases in the way they make decisions that mean they aren’t always rational or in their best interests.

Loosely put, you might say that applies here. In the way Kahneman intended it, it’s not relevant to this situation.

What some people are suggesting we believe is that a group of professionals whose sole job is to be successful at winning football games would be blinded by let’s say ego or pride, and would jeopardise winning football games by selecting a certain player.

The logic breaks down in so many places there and we have access to a much more obvious and straightforward explanation: Higgins is a very accomplished footballer, was as recently as two months ago clearly in our best 18, and if he can reclaim that form unequivocally enhances our premiership chances.

The Higgins we want to see again:

This Higgins kick is just pure gold

Cats recruit Shaun Higgins shows his absolute class with a beautiful delivery to Gary Rohan, who finishes off his work

www.afl.com.au

Sounds interesting. Criminal behaviour? I presume they do not always know they are acting in a certain way or excuse it. sort of 'Cognitive Dissonance' ?


In relation to Higgins or any player we bring in , how we treat him affects him and us , and also how we go when we next try to bring in a player. While we are winning and while it could be argued his performance is not hurting us , I could see the MC choosing to make choices. Not blind choices or ones based on ego or pride but one where you have decided to bring in mature players and part of that is to give them a very good chance the first year. I think Syd do much the same. They bring in players like Taylor and he plays a lot first year , a good group of games but then if he has not secured his spot finds himself having to work harder for a spot.


Trying to remember... (baring injury)... have we had recruits that we have brought in and not played from R1 and given a good group of games in their first year?

 

[catempire]

Sounds interesting. Criminal behaviour? I presume they do not always know they are acting in a certain way or excuse it. sort of 'Cognitive Dissonance' ?

Not necessarily criminal. A classic example is people tend to stick to defaults rather than make active decisions to switch to better alternatives. Like when choosing a mortgage provider or superannuation fund.

In relation to Higgins or any player we bring in , how we treat him affects him and us , and also how we go when we next try to bring in a player. While we are winning and while it could be argued his performance is not hurting us , I could see the MC choosing to make choices. Not blind choices or ones based on ego or pride but one where you have decided to bring in mature players and part of that is to give them a very good chance the first year. I think Syd do much the same. They bring in players like Taylor and he plays a lot first year , a good group of games but then if he has not secured his spot finds himself having to work harder for a spot.


Trying to remember... (baring injury)... have we had recruits that we have brought in and not played from R1 and given a good group of games in their first year?

I don’t know the answer to your question.

It seems to me the conjecture is the club is acting against best interests and I find that hard to accept when a more simple and compelling argument exists.

 

[goyoucatters]

It seems to me the conjecture is the club is acting against best interests and I find that hard to accept when a more simple and compelling argument exists.

Thanks, catempire, for keeping it real. Even as a Higgins advocate from the start, I agree he is not performing to anything like the level I expected overall thus far. Particularly in relation to the skills that he's brought to his game over a very long career. This year is a massive outlier for him in how he's generally using the ball.

Having said that, the idea that the club is going to deliberately sabotage our own efforts to be successful this year in the interests of defending some 'we were right' narrative just doesn't pass the logic test at all. Higgins at close to his best will be a massive asset to this team. I admit that there could be hard decisions made in coming weeks about whether his body and/or mind are in the right place to enable him to produce that for us this season. However, I am absolutely sure that if it doesn't start tracking better than where it is right now, there will be a circuit-breaker introduced by the club at some point.

Because, contrary to what seems to pass for a sensible and reasoned analysis of the situation by some here, Scott and the club will be far more interested in dying on the hill that leads to a 2021 flag rather than the speedbump that's connected to backing in Higgins, no matter what. Surely even those most infuriated by his ongoing inclusion simply have to admit that.

 

[PhatBoy]

If Higgins gets dropped now he will struggle to regain his spot,that's ok by me but probable a little unpalatable to the club and a tad embarrassing,like Steven last year they will give him every opportunity to justify their putting him on the list,can't be seen to have f’ed up.

This notion is ridiculous.
It has nothing to do with embarrassment or admitting a mistake. It is simply a case of KNOWING what his ceiling is and trusting based on a career worth of evidence, that he will get somewhere close to that sooner rather than later

 

[Turbocat]

Not necessarily criminal. A classic example is people tend to stick to defaults rather than make active decisions to switch to better alternatives. Like when choosing a mortgage provider or superannuation fund.


I don’t know the answer to your question.

It seems to me the conjecture is the club is acting against best interests and I find that hard to accept when a more simple and compelling argument exists.

Again Interesting.

That someone would stick to what they know rather than make a choice. My guess is that people do not like change. Big or little things , people stick with what they know. With Super for example, or even banking, trust is such a big factor. Swapping power supplier or seats at the footy, people tend to stay with a certain brand. Use it and stick with , the whole concept is interesting. Sound like an episode of Mad Men when Don was trying to work out a way to get consumers to change which brand they smoke.

I would say any selection, or the role given to any player fits that. A club may act against its best interests but may not know it at the time. Did Collingwood do the right think back end contracts. Signing Grundy to 7 years. Id suggest that they feel they are acting in its best interests when they made these choices.

I doubt any selection that the club makes or action it does is ever done without what is perceived as the clubs best interest. Either deciding to play youth or mature players. Short term or long term. Put Blitz at FB or on ball. Recruit a VFL player or bring in a kid.

Play Higgins when he is not hitting his best. The alternative is something like Atkins at GC... do we want to have a recruit we have brought in...playing VFL? How does that look. What is his upside. Just when do we pull the pin. How many games did we give Jack Steven? I doubt we did that with anything other than the best interests of the club in mind.


Someone has to make way for Guthrie. Who ever gos, Im sure the club will think its in the best interest of the club.

 

[Sire of Claude]

As others have observed, Scott doesn't relegate older players - it's his biggest flaw as a coach. There are several others in the team besides Higgins who might have benefited from being dropped at some point but it never happens: only the younger players are dropped.

We can't win the flag with 10 30+year olds in the team, so it makes sense to drop Higgins and see if he can regain his best form. Guthrie obviously has to come back in and I would think Narkle too.

 

[year of the cat]

Had the most tackles in the team against GC. Someone on here suggested the reason he wasn't bending down to pick up balls and was paddling them instead was because he's got a hamstring/back issue and I reckon that's pretty convincing.

I go on what I saw of him against Collingwood and Port Adel where his defensive efforts were deplorable.

 

[Drunkcat]

I love this i was the first saying he is done and had people laughing giving me thumps down, i should name you's as it was all the experts on here...to you guy's i give you the finger hey Fred and mates strange cat macstradbroke Boris catempire caldy daddy cats09 you pick one oh i did name some lol

 

[you pick one]

This notion is ridiculous.
It has nothing to do with embarrassment or admitting a mistake. It is simply a case of KNOWING what his ceiling is and trusting based on a career worth of evidence, that he will get somewhere close to that sooner rather than later

They did the same with Steven and Kersten kept backing them in then were forced to retreat to others who had missed continuity of games come finals, this should not be allowed to follow that playbook,call me old fashion but bugger it if whey are not performing tap them on the shoulder and let them know why and give someone else a go.

 

[Cataholic]

This notion is ridiculous.
It has nothing to do with embarrassment or admitting a mistake. It is simply a case of KNOWING what his ceiling is and trusting based on a career worth of evidence, that he will get somewhere close to that sooner rather than later

How long do they let it slide if he continues on this plateau?

 

[Cataholic]

They did the same with Steven and Kersten kept backing them in then were forced to retreat to others who had missed continuity of games come finals, this should not be allowed to follow that playbook,call me old fashion but bugger it if whey are not performing tap them on the shoulder and let them know why and give someone else a go.

There'd be nearly as much uncertainty about an ageing player re-capturing past glories as a younger guy exceeding expectations imo.

 

[STPer18]

I don't watch a lot of North but people were saying he's an adequate Ablett replacement with ball in hand. He's a genuine butcher - kick to kick with Higgins, Bewsy and Kolo would be a blast to watch.

 

[you pick one]

How long do they let it slide if he continues on this plateau?

They gambled with Kersten right to the end rd 22 before being dumped and bloody delisted, Steven rd 18 and delisted, so he has time it would seem.

 

[4quarter_cat]

Over view....

Its the kind of book that has so much in it that it really can't be summarised easily.

Here's my best attempt. The brain is such an energy hungry organ that it tries to economise high energy task like "Conscious thought" by palming tasks off to the unconscious processes so to conserve on energy. But that only scratches the surface. One of the best books I have ever read. Anyways back to the topic at hand.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

They gambled with Kersten right to the end rd 22 before being dumped and bloody delisted, Steven rd 18 so he has time it would seam.

Ambrose out swinger?

 

[Cataholic]

They gambled with Kersten right to the end rd 22 before being dumped and bloody delisted, Steven rd 18 so he has time it would seam.

'Reputation' should only give you a free pass for a limited amount of time, not until time eventually proves you right......or wrong.

On no metric or stat is he in our Best 22, and he's just about exhausted his free pass imo.

 

[Cataholic]

Thanks, catempire, for keeping it real. Even as a Higgins advocate from the start, I agree he is not performing to anything like the level I expected overall thus far. Particularly in relation to the skills that he's brought to his game over a very long career. This year is a massive outlier for him in how he's generally using the ball.

Having said that, the idea that the club is going to deliberately sabotage our own efforts to be successful this year in the interests of defending some 'we were right' narrative just doesn't pass the logic test at all. Higgins at close to his best will be a massive asset to this team. I admit that there could be hard decisions made in coming weeks about whether his body and/or mind are in the right place to enable him to produce that for us this season. However, I am absolutely sure that if it doesn't start tracking better than where it is right now, there will be a circuit-breaker introduced by the club at some point.

Because, contrary to what seems to pass for a sensible and reasoned analysis of the situation by some here, Scott and the club will be far more interested in dying on the hill that leads to a 2021 flag rather than the speedbump that's connected to backing in Higgins, no matter what. Surely even those most infuriated by his ongoing inclusion simply have to admit that.

Agreed, but it's just about time for the club to call him out imo. I can see them getting sucked into giving him 'just one more week' because it's easier to be lulled by reputation.

I hope he proves me wrong, I truly do, but right now his form is not deserving of a game, and he's rapidly exhausting the credits he rang up with NM.

 

[Sky]

Passes the eye test. At least make him earn his spot in the team.

i only liked your comment cause i like your username

 

[cats_09]

They gambled with Kersten right to the end rd 22 before being dumped and bloody delisted, Steven rd 18 and delisted, so he has time it would seem.

Round 18 last year was Steven's first game since round 14 - it was one last chance to show something ahead of the finals and when he didn't he was omitted the following week

It's not like he played 12/15 consecutive games leading up round 18 & the finals before getting dropped

 

[catempire]

Round 18 last year was Steven's first game since round 14 - it was one last chance to show something ahead of the finals and when he didn't he was omitted the following week

It's not like he played 12/15 consecutive games leading up round 18 & the finals before getting dropped

The myth that has grown around this is quite impressive.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Higgins kicking hasn't been great - but you should see his running patterns.

 

[Cataholic]

Round 18 last year was Steven's first game since round 14 - it was one last chance to show something ahead of the finals and when he didn't he was omitted the following week

It's not like he played 12/15 consecutive games leading up round 18 & the finals before getting dropped

The fact they tried to persevere with him at all, when he was about as fit and athletic as a cheeseburger was the problem.

 

[cats_09]

The fact they tried to persevere with him at all, when he was about as fit and athletic as a cheeseburger was the problem.

I can understand the perseverance when the season returned and before we went into hub life - during that time there was no alternative options such as the vfl or regular scratch matches to get a run in the legs

Once we got to Qld though and there was regular scratch matches, that's when he should have been omitted until he proved his fitness

 

[you pick one]

Round 18 last year was Steven's first game since round 14 - it was one last chance to show something ahead of the finals and when he didn't he was omitted the following week

It's not like he played 12/15 consecutive games leading up round 18 & the finals before getting dropped

The myth that has grown around this is quite impressive.

I'm guessing you two are still having trouble excepting you were wrong on Steven the old Geelong can do no wrong syndrome the bloke never looked like it at the Cats ever.