Should the AFL get rid of VFL Premierships and only count AFL?

kid_a

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This thread was doomed from the get go.
Victorian club supporters, particularly those who go for the 'bigger' Vic clubs who have had more historic success will always argue that VFL flags count and supporters of interstate clubs that have only popped up in the last 30 or so years will almost always say that the old VFL flags don't count when compared to modern day AFL. flags.

The little graphic of your club on your profile automatically gives away which angle you approach this debate from.

The only people who's thoughts I find interesting in this conversation is either supporters of Vic clubs who think old VFL flags don't count when compared with afl Flags, or supporters of non victorian afl teams who think old VFL flags count.
 

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The Burger King

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The only people who's thoughts I find interesting in this conversation is either supporters of Vic clubs who think old VFL flags don't count when compared with afl Flags, or supporters of non victorian afl teams who think old VFL flags count.
What about Port supporters?

I've thought long about this and ultimately every flag should count. No flag should ever be disregarded.

However it is difficult to compare flags from different era's let alone different leagues.

Ultimately when comparing all the clubs in the competition today it makes the most sense to use AFL era premierships. State era flags can be used for comparisons too but are more relevant to comparisons within states such as comparing Carlton and Collingwood.

I've always found the exclusion of VFA flags prior to the VFL baffling as all the same clubs in the 1897 VFL season were in the 1896 VFA season.

Equating say a 1916 VFL flag to a 2019 AFL flag is absurd.
 

kid_a

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What about Port supporters?

I've thought long about this and ultimately every flag should count. No flag should ever be disregarded.

However it is difficult to compare flags from different era's let alone different leagues.

Ultimately when comparing all the clubs in the competition today it makes the most sense to use AFL era premierships. State era flags can be used for comparisons too but are more relevant to comparisons within states such as comparing Carlton and Collingwood.

I've always found the exclusion of VFA flags prior to the VFL baffling as all the same clubs in the 1897 VFL season were in the 1896 VFA season.

Equating say a 1916 VFL flag to a 2019 AFL flag is absurd.
Yep!!!

Technically I personally think only the old "Championship of Australia" titles should be considered the historic equivalent as AFL premierships.
You guys won 4 of those and were the most successful in that comp, and imo have now been the undisputed best club in Australia 5 times (the 4 old championships of Aus + your AFL title)
 

Boston tiger

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insanely simplistic.
Also ignores the absolute greed of the Victorian clubs.
Needs to be simplistic because we are dealing with a fair bit of ignorance here. Don’t ignore the greed of the Victorian clubs. ( who cares ).
Just get a sense of what the VFL was and what the states were prepared to give up and overlook just to be apart of it.
 
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Carringbush2010

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No flag should ever be disregarded.
I don't think anyone is disregarding flags.

However it is difficult to compare flags from different era's let alone different leagues.
I agree, should anyone compare the flag won in 2119 to the flag in 2019 or 1919? To say the 1919 meant less to the 2119 flag only serves an argument that "old" flags aren't relevant. In 100 years time that'd mean that this years flag means zero.

I've always found the exclusion of VFA flags prior to the VFL baffling as all the same clubs in the 1897 VFL season were in the 1896 VFA season.
They're excluded because they're different leagues, why not count the Pines flags in the MPNFL & Peels in the WAFL? What about St. Gerards U14's flag when they beat us (Dandy West) by a point in the EDJFL? They're different leagues aren't they?

Or do we just simply count the flags won in this competition instead of including other comps? Which is what HQ do now.
 

RonnieRaven

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It’s up to the individual I only count what I’ve seen if you weren’t around to see it and Experience it I certainly wouldn’t brag about it
The anchors have got 0 and the hawks have been the most successful team followed by eagles cats lions
It’s generally just a go to for vic club supporters when there on the bottom
My memory starts at 91
 

telsor

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I've always found the exclusion of VFA flags prior to the VFL baffling as all the same clubs in the 1897 VFL season were in the 1896 VFA season.
They're excluded for the same reason the VFL/AFL flags are included together.

VFA/VFL were different leagues, the latter formed when some clubs broke away from the former (and the former lived on for roughly 100 years more).

VFL/AFL are the same league, they just added more clubs and renamed themselves as a sop to the perpetually sooky. (kinda like the politically correct/woke types..no matter what demands you give in to, and the promises they make that this is all they want, they'll just immediately move on and sook about something else).
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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1897 8 clubs split from the VFA to form a new league
1908 Richmond & Uni joined
1914 Uni folded
1925 North, Hawks, Dogs joined.
1982 Swans went to Sydney
1987 Eagles & Bears joined
1990 VFL rebranded to AFL
1991 Adelaide joined
1995 Freo joined
1996 Fitzroy shafted
1997 Bears & Lions become Brisbane Lions.
1997 Port joined
2011 Suns joined
2012 GWS joined
20?? Tasi joins

The common denominator?
It's all been the same league since 1897.
Get over it.
Clubs could win flags via the Challenge System.

Clubs were winning flags when other clubs withdrew due to the wars.

AFL flags only for mine. 1990 onwards.

Hawthorn - 5
West Coast - 4
Brisbane - 3
Geelong - 3
Collingwood - 2
Richmond - 2
North Melbourne - 2
Adelaide - 2
Essendon - 2
Sydney - 2
Bulldogs - 1
Carlton - 1
Port Adelaide - 1
Melbourne - 0
GC - 0
Fremantle - 0
GWS - 0
St Kilda - 0
Fitzroy - 0
 

telsor

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I agree, should anyone compare the flag won in 2119 to the flag in 2019 or 1919? To say the 1919 meant less to the 2119 flag only serves an argument that "old" flags aren't relevant. In 100 years time that'd mean that this years flag means zero.
What makes a flag relevant?

Yes, the 1919 VFL premiers would come a distant last in the AFL of 2019, but in that year, they won the highest team honour in the strongest league.
 

Mofra

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What makes a flag relevant?

Yes, the 1919 VFL premiers would come a distant last in the AFL of 2019, but in that year, they won the highest team honour in the strongest league.
Prior to 1925, that is debatable.

The VFA premiers beat the VFL premiers in 1924 in a one-off match. It's the only recorded match between the two competitions' premiers (although no VFL grand final was played in 1924).
 

Herne Hill Hammer

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What makes a flag relevant?

Yes, the 1919 VFL premiers would come a distant last in the AFL of 2019, but in that year, they won the highest team honour in the strongest league.
lol,

In 1916, Fitzroy only won 2 h&a games from 12 in a 4 team competition and end up premiers. 100% of the competition made finals.

In 1915, Collingwood finished top after the h&a with 14 wins and 2 losses in a 9 team competition.

Collingwood were belted in their semi-final by Fitzroy and then the Pies next game was the grand final,which they lost Carlton who had won their semi-final, preliminary final and ultimately the grand final.

In 1917, in a 6 side competition, Geelong and Richmond were the only two sides to not make the finals.

The ladder finished :

Collingwood
Carlton
South Melbourne
Fitzroy

Semi-Final : Fitzroy defeated Carlton by 8 points
Semi-Final : Collingwood defeated South Melbourne by 10 goals
Preliminary Final : Fitzroy defeated Collingwood by 6 points
Grand Final : Collingwood defeated Fitzroy by 35 points

In the season you mentioned, Collingwood LOST to Richmond in the preliminary final by 29 points.

The next week in the grand final, Richmond LOST to Collingwood by 25 points.
 

Boston tiger

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Clubs could win flags via the Challenge System.

Clubs were winning flags when other clubs withdrew due to the wars.

AFL flags only for mine. 1990 onwards.

Hawthorn - 5
West Coast - 4
Brisbane - 3
Geelong - 3
Collingwood - 2
Richmond - 2
North Melbourne - 2
Adelaide - 2
Essendon - 2
Sydney - 2
Bulldogs - 1
Carlton - 1
Port Adelaide - 1
Melbourne - 0
GC - 0
Fremantle - 0
GWS - 0
St Kilda - 0
Fitzroy - 0
No can do. You have teams winning flags before GWS joined .. hardly fair.

Geelong 0
 

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