Should the AFL get rid of VFL Premierships and only count AFL?

Father Jack

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Like I said IF that is your argument, the flag this year and last year should not be recognised in 100 years because it's 100 years ago. The same logic you're using to dismiss flags from 100 years ago today.

You can't have it both ways....................... the most simple solution is to start from when the league started. 1897.
If you're not going to bother reading what I'm saying then stop replying to me.
 

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Rusty Brookes

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Given Don Bradman's record was achieved under the auspices of the Imperial Cricket Council and not the International Cricket Council, do we re-write the record books? Get rid of his 99.94 average. Afterall only six nations had test status at the time and there's now 12 test teams.
 

Father Jack

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Given Don Bradman's record was achieved under the auspices of the Imperial Cricket Council and not the International Cricket Council, do we re-write the record books? Get rid of his 99.94 average. Afterall only six nations had test status at the time and there's now 12 test teams.
No, because that's an individual player stat.
 

Professor Knowall

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No.
This history of the comp is that it began in 1897, expanded, became national, and changed its name.
Similarly, VFA premierships can't be counted.
Clubs like the bulldogs and North can refer to their VFA premierships in their history, but their AFL premierships are a separate thing. They must be identified separately.
The first reply summed it up very succinctly. The AFL (then known as the VFL, but like many organisations underwent a name change at some stage in their history) commenced in 1897 with clubs that broke away from the VFA, and the league has continued uninterrupted ever since. Therefore, VFL premierships, but not VFA premierships as this was a completely separate league, get counted since the leagues formation in 1897 as part of its records. Clubs have been added intermittently since 2 were added in 1908. This is no reason to disregard the history of the league since it's formation in 1897 as historical fact and the premierships since then counted accordingly.
 

Ned_Flanders

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I thought we were talking about Bradman's average?
He used bradmans stats as an example of shit that wouldn't exist if you restrict cricket records to only those created under the international Cricket council (or post name change)

So in your world do all goal kicking records, games played, brownlows, etc not count post AFL rebranding?
 

Father Jack

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He used bradmans stats as an example of s**t that wouldn't exist if you restrict cricket records to only those created under the international Cricket council (or post name change)

So in your world do all goal kicking records, games played, brownlows, etc not count post AFL rebranding?
I don't have a problem with counting them, they're individual records and everyone knows they have their own built-in biases when comparing eras, just look at the goal kicking records for example. And anyway, they are peripheral to the main game, which is flags. I have no idea which team has won the most Brownlows, because it doesn't really matter.
 

Ned_Flanders

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I don't have a problem with counting them, they're individual records and everyone knows they have their own built-in biases when comparing eras, just look at the goal kicking records for example. And anyway, they are peripheral to the main game, which is flags. I have no idea which team has won the most Brownlows, because it doesn't really matter.
This makes zero sense though, all vfl records count - except the most important one

I love you as a poster, but this seems solely driven by a want to "win" the premiership flag ladder
 

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Father Jack

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This makes zero sense though, all vfl records count - except the most important one

I love you as a poster, but this seems solely driven by a want to "win" the premiership flag ladder
I'd just like the 'most premierships' discussion to come back to life. Since the AFL started, it's been pretty much frozen with old VFL powerhouses sitting on top, with flags from a part-time, semi-professional suburban comp

And to repeat, I disagree with the thread title about 'getting rid' of VFL flags, I would simply like to be able to count the AFL ones separately.

And I don't go for Hawthorn, so I wouldn't be winning the premiership flag ladder anyway ...
 

Boston tiger

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I don't have a problem with counting them, they're individual records and everyone knows they have their own built-in biases when comparing eras, just look at the goal kicking records for example. And anyway, they are peripheral to the main game, which is flags. I have no idea which team has won the most Brownlows, because it doesn't really matter.
Do you think people are thinking West coast are an unsuccessful club because they have won 4 flags ?
 

Boston tiger

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I'd just like the 'most premierships' discussion to come back to life. Since the AFL started, it's been pretty much frozen with old VFL powerhouses sitting on top, with flags from a part-time, semi-professional suburban comp

And to repeat, I disagree with the thread title about 'getting rid' of VFL flags, I would simply like to be able to count the AFL ones separately.

And I don't go for Hawthorn, so I wouldn't be winning the premiership flag ladder anyway ...
Do you understand why individual clubs won’t count their flags separately?
 

Father Jack

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Ned_Flanders

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So West Coast are an unsuccessful club?
Did I say that?

This isn't a race where everyone started at the same time. My club joined in 1908 remember, and I'm not crying about the flags won prior to that.

Under your model, the reset has to be the year gws joined, as that's when we had an 18 team comp with all clubs having an equal amount of time to "succeed"

That's just stupid though.

Like my club, you joined a preexisting comp. You don't get to reset the clock to void 100 years of history just because you were not a part of it
 

Carringbush2010

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As I've stated earlier this fred on face value has a look and feel of desperation to one up the older clubs of the competition because the op's team has only competed for 32 years and "only" has 4 flags.

That's my assumption and excuse me but if that is the motive then 4 flags in 32 years is not unsuccessful. Try 2 flags in 14 attempts over 59 years that a measure of failure.

So my question to the op jmac91 is what is your motive to do away with VFL flags?
 

andon

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History is part of football tradition, and without it we have nothing but crass short term distractions.

Imagine not celebrating Barassi, Skilton, Mathews, or Farmer from our history, what a sad thing that would be.

The VFL was the premier league in the land, the teams who won flags should be recognised as being the best
in the country at that time.

Otherwise we can start at zero every time a new club comes in.

:essendon: :carlton: the two with 16 flags
 

telsor

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I'd just like the 'most premierships' discussion to come back to life. Since the AFL started, it's been pretty much frozen with old VFL powerhouses sitting on top, with flags from a part-time, semi-professional suburban comp

And to repeat, I disagree with the thread title about 'getting rid' of VFL flags, I would simply like to be able to count the AFL ones separately.

And I don't go for Hawthorn, so I wouldn't be winning the premiership flag ladder anyway ...
So your whole reasoning for wiping roughly 100 years of history and sending it to the scrap pile is because you want your club to look better in comparisons?

Do better.
 

screech

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I would rather an equivalent definition of first-class cricket be developed. Games played, premierships won, individual achievements could all be compared rather than a silly argument about nomenclature of competitions.

The VFL/AFL for its entire existance should clearly have "first class status", the WAFL up to 1986, the SANFL up to 1990 and the VFA up to 1896.

A second-class status could also be assigned to the various tasmanian leagues, WAFL since 1987, SANFL since 1991 and NEAFL, VFA from 1897 etc.
 

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