Should the AFL get rid of VFL Premierships and only count AFL?

[jmac91]

In Advance, If this thread is in the wrong place, move it.

Now, with the recent talks of the AFL possibly counting VFA premierships as AFL Premierships, I would like to bring forward the reverse. There has been 37 years since the first full time Interstate club (South Melbourne to Sydney), 29 Years of AFL history since the name change, 27 years since the Cup left Victoria for the First Time. There has been Decades of History in the AFL era and there is 8 Interstate Teams in the AFL and 11 Clubs playing home games Interstate. This is amazing and I strongly support this, I Believe that the AFL should not consider VFL Premierships as part of the AFL Premiership Tally. The Victorian clubs will still have the Flags and Cups in their Trophy Cabinet but they will not count as part of the AFL Premiership Tally.
Give me your thought on this.

 

[Gigantor]

No.
The history of the comp is that it began in 1897, expanded, became national, and changed its name.
Similarly, VFA premierships can't be counted.
Clubs like the bulldogs and North can refer to their VFA premierships in their history, but their AFL premierships are a separate thing. They must be identified separately.

 

[ash_1050]

No, you can't discount the history of the club prior to the current iteration of the competition they play in.

 

[Bald]

I'm of the belief that premierships won during a time where there was no salary cap hold lesser value but they should still be counted. Not sure how or if they should be differentiated as far as official terms are concerned but meh, it makes the premierships you do win now worth more and given we won one a few years back, I'm pretty proud of that.

 

[Virgin Dog]

No, you can't discount the history of the club prior to the current iteration of the competition they play in.

That's fair, but can't we argue for Port to include SANFL premierships, since that's part of their history? Counting VFL premierships makes the whole thing pointless since there really is no fair way to compare interstate sides. Even Victorian teams can't really be truly compared since the competition wasn't exactly balanced for most of the period prior to the AFL era

 

[ash_1050]

That's fair, but can't we argue for Port to include SANFL premierships, since that's part of their history?

A lot of Port supporters would include these in their tally as it's still part of their history. It needs to be like for like comparison though from an AFL perspective, playing against other clubs that were also in the then VFL as this was the primary league that eventually evolved into the AFL.

 

[Virgin Dog]

A lot of Port supporters would include these in their tally as it's still part of their history. It needs to be like for like comparison though from an AFL perspective, playing against other clubs that were also in the then VFL as this was the primary league that eventually evolved into the AFL.

The problem I see is we're comparing over 100 years of opportunities for the original Vic clubs, versus <30 years for many others.

The early VFL was far from a professional league, did not have a draft and did not have a proper salary cap.

I feel it just makes the whole thing completely meaningless. The only true comparison would be to count AFL-era premierships.

 

[ash_1050]

It's a sport, every aspect of it is meaningless.

 

[Gigantor]

It's a sport, every aspect of it is meaningless.

Life itself is meaningless.

 

[Art Corvelay]

That's fair, but can't we argue for Port to include SANFL premierships, since that's part of their history?

They can include it as part of their history, absolutely, but they didn’t win them in this league so they are reported differently.

AFL = VFL

I‘m sorry not all teams were in the league at the beginning.

 

[Virgin Dog]

They can include it as part of their history, absolutely, but they didn’t win them in this league so they are reported differently.

AFL = VFL

I‘m sorry not all teams were in the league at the beginning.

With the lack of proper draft, salary cap, etc. it really devalues the earlier premierships. People can count them all they like, but they really have no place in official counts

 

[Art Corvelay]

With the lack of proper draft, salary cap, etc. it really devalues the earlier premierships. People can count them all they like, but they really have no place in official counts

I’m sure your clubs lack of success in that period has nothing to do with that opinion. You can only win them based on the rules of the day. What arbitrary rule changes would mean the current flags don’t count? Veterans list and cap implications? Sub rule? Restricted free agency?

 

[workhorse]

No.
The history of the comp is that it began in 1897, expanded, became national, and changed its name.
Similarly, VFA premierships can't be counted.
Clubs like the bulldogs and North can refer to their VFA premierships in their history, but their AFL premierships are a separate thing. They must be identified separately.

End the thread now I reckon. All that needed to be said.

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Nope. Should be kept and preserved, however, clubs, fans etc. should be able to realise the context of each flags value and not just lump the total flags in one basket

At the end of the day the more recent a flag, the more relevant as the competition continues to change and evolve

As a freo fan, as far as I am concerned flags prior to 1995 hold little relevance. Not to say they didn't occur, just have no bearing on our fans as we as a club didn't exist prior to this. I'm guessing it's the same for most other fans of new clubs bar Port Adelaide who have their own context and history to acknowledge, preserve and build on.

 

[Andronicus]

That's fair, but can't we argue for Port to include SANFL premierships, since that's part of their history?

No.

Different teams. The SANFL one is still playing aren't they?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

No.

Different teams. The SANFL one is still playing aren't they?

Dude, that's like telling north fans their years as Hotham don't count

 

[Reality Check!]

VFL Premierships are more legitimate than over 25% of current AFL premierships.

 

[Professor Knowall]

No.
The history of the comp is that it began in 1897, expanded, became national, and changed its name.
Similarly, VFA premierships can't be counted.
Clubs like the bulldogs and North can refer to their VFA premierships in their history, but their AFL premierships are a separate thing. They must be identified separately.

Great succinct summary of the basic facts.

 

[telsor]

Life itself is meaningless.

What do you mean?

 

[Dirty Bird]

It would go a long way to changing the perception of the league and make it an easier sel into the northern states to support our game....

 

[LightTower4]

1897 8 clubs split from the VFA to form a new league
1908 Richmond & Uni joined
1914 Uni folded
1925 North, Hawks, Dogs joined.
1982 Swans went to Sydney
1987 Eagles & Bears joined
1990 VFL rebranded to AFL
1991 Adelaide joined
1995 Freo joined
1996 Fitzroy shafted
1997 Bears & Lions become Brisbane Lions.
1997 Port joined
2011 Suns joined
2012 GWS joined
20?? Tasi joins

The common denominator?
It's all been the same league since 1897.
Get over it.

 

[Father Jack]

Yes, only including AFL stats about flags would simply make them far more relevant, interesting and meaningful, and we can't have that, can we? Lets all pretend that Carlton are the equal most successful AFL club in history and not think any more about it.

 

[jmac91]

1897 8 clubs split from the VFA to form a new league
1908 Richmond & Uni joined
1914 Uni folded
1925 North, Hawks, Dogs joined.
1982 Swans went to Sydney
1987 Eagles & Bears joined
1997 Bears & Lions become Brisbane Lions. Eagles join as well.

What?

 

[Pessimistic]

Its the Video age. Only count the ones you can stream

 

[Pessimistic]

1897 8 clubs split from the VFA to form a new league
1908 Richmond & Uni joined
1914 Uni folded
1925 North, Hawks, Dogs joined.
1982 Swans went to Sydney
1987 Eagles & Bears joined
1990 VFL rebranded to AFL
1991 Adelaide joined
1995 Freo joined
1996 Fitzroy shafted
1997 Bears & Lions become Brisbane Lions. Eagles join as well.
1997 Port joined
2011 Suns joined
2012 GWS joined
20?? Tasi joins

The common denominator?
It's all been the same league since 1897.
Get over it.

1920. The official VFL publication ceased listing VFA Premierships
2020. The official AFL publication ceased listing VFL Premierships

(or maybe theyll wait till Geelong get 5)