So... Hale or Bailey?

[sohsam]

Bailey in next week.

Our centre square work was appalling. Have not seen a worse performance for some time. Outblocked and outbodied. When will clarko learn we need bigger bodies in the middle against the cats? They bully us.

Bailey to Roughead, that is our version of Cox to NicNat.

 

[sohsam]

Just dont like the look of Hale under pressure. Good front runner but under pressure i wouldnt like to rely on him.
In the semi last year he looked out of his depth.
If Buddy and Rough are in the team its Bailey for me with Roughie backing him up.

agree, at centre bounces, Bailey is best and as we saw clearances are saw important, especially having the ball tapped in front of players like Rioli. Also, would not mind Rough going on Hawkins and letting Shoe go fwd, not sure how it would have worked with the ruck situation. Last night it would have been handy to have both Hale/Bailey as we were beaten in contested marks (both offer that) and ruck division and flexibility to swap rough/shoe, we have enough run in our legs.

 

[christoff91]

it would be nice if bailey could play the next to 2-3 games to try and let him settle into the team.

 

[pacman]

Hale for me competes better around the ground and can go forward and kick a goal.
Bailey better at ruck duels but that's all.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Play them both in the next two games, giving each spells in the ruck and up forward.

He who performs best, gets the last two weeks of the season.

 

[Ilovethehawks]

I think Bailey could have really hurt Geelong and shown that hack Orren a thing or two in that first quarter that Hale simply could not, not to mention put serious pressure on their defenders in our forward line when resting there in a very similar vein to WC Cox. Bailey is a good contested grab, and with hands raised would be 3 meters taller than Hale (slight exaggeration but you get my drift).

 

[sohsam]

I think Bailey could have really hurt Geelong and shown that hack Orren a thing or two in that first quarter that Hale simply could not, not to mention put serious pressure on their defenders in our forward line when resting there in a very similar vein to WC Cox. Bailey is a good contested grab, and with hands raised would be 3 meters taller than Hale (slight exaggeration but you get my drift).

The only thing I would change is have him drift back and block IPod/Pod's run and has done so well in the past and force them wide. We have enough fwds, especially with buddy back. Hale can be be good and bad, first 6 weeks was not good and again periods went missing, so alittle risky, does offer marking option around the ground, bailey could possibly do that, but missing so much football, don't know his fitness. Bailey has a big heart and does not mind going back with flight of ball, but Hale to me at times, is too worried not to get hurt, or only performs when pressure is put on him.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

The big difference is in that first quarter, whilst Bailey may still have been beaten, purely because of his height, he wouldn't have been dominated in the middle.

My personal belief is that Max makes Cyril work in the middle - the kind of direct service Hale gave late once Stephenson was exhausted, Max gives all game. He dramatically improves our 'middle' game. (as against Inside or Outside)

Cats finally had a weakness to expose, and instead we tried to cover our shortfalls. Again. We failed. Again.

How much extra did we get from Savage than Bailey? Play Bailey in the 21, move someone like Pup to the sub. Hodge didn't provide any additional run anyway - at least kept Scarlett busy - once Hodge went off in the last, Scarlett was very prominent.

 

[sohsam]

Play them both in the next two games, giving each spells in the ruck and up forward.

He who performs best, gets the last two weeks of the season.

with our undersized backline, would prefer bailey to drift back into defence and has done well, especially as you have other ruckman in jolley / cox going fwd, backline need help.

 

[Henry Jr]

How much extra did we get from Savage than Bailey? Play Bailey in the 21, move someone like Pup to the sub. Hodge didn't provide any additional run anyway - at least kept Scarlett busy - once Hodge went off in the last, Scarlett was very prominent.

Scarlett doing do much in the final quarter Simon.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I noticed him on 3-4 occasions through the centre square, providing the Cats with overlap run and quick, easy ball into their forwardline. No respect to his opponent.

 

[Bardo State]

I actually think Hale was very good in the last 3 quarters. He was shocking in the first but so was most of the team. He was killed in the centre clearances early but responded very well. Stats aren't everything but he had 50% hitouts to advantage, 4 tackles, 11 contested possessions, a few inside 50s and hit the scoreboard. Would've been good if he could've taken a few more marks but he was a major factor in our fightback.

 

[Endorphin Machine]

Is there anyone that thinks that playing all of Hale, Bailey and Roughead may work against the bigger bodied teams ..ie Swans, WCoast, Geelong?
Seems to me Rough could either play roles down back or forward and let Hale/Bailey shoulder the majority of the ruckwork.

 

[mollyfud]

Is there anyone that thinks that playing all of Hale, Bailey and Roughead may work against the bigger bodied teams ..ie Swans, WCoast, Geelong?
Seems to me Rough could either play roles down back or forward and let Hale/Bailey shoulder the majority of the ruckwork.

Not when Buddy comes back because you either have to drop Gunstall or be way too top heavy, even though all the talls forward are pretty good below their knees!

Also agree with @daannn277, I would have almost went with Hale being dominating (almost that is) in the 2nd quarter! I think Bailey would have to show something amazingly special to take Hales spot (take spot that is. An injury somewhere else in the side could see both play).

 

[TallyHawk]

Hale's ruckwork consists of seeking contact first and then trying to tap the ball. Max must come back next week as his tap work is streets ahead. We mustn't underestimate the value of first use of the footy.

Also Hale does not ruck for long enough periods, Roughy spends too much time in the ruck. What I can't get my head around is when we see Hale in the ruck, Roughy around the same contest and no one up forward. For a game based on structures we are either not conforming or the coaching staff don't see this as an issue.

I think we must play Hale and Max next week, see if both of them can fit into the one team. Whatever the outcome our 1st ruck must play at least 85% in the ruck. We need Rough, Buddy and Gunstan in the forward line for extended periods.

 

[pacman]

After the weekend we need to try both in the ruck with Bailey to be subbed just after half time.
Not 100% sure it will work but it is worth a try.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

IMO, it will still be one of Hale or Bailey, but not both, as it makes the Hawks too top heavy (especially since Franklin is yet to return to the field).

Still backing in Hale at this stage, but the next big test will be against the Swans when he'll have to ruck against Mumford in Sydney. In the corresponding game last year, Bailey did very well to nullify Mumford (I'm pretty sure Hale didn't play as he was injured).

 

[Glenferrie Oval]

Hale's ruckwork consists of seeking contact first and then trying to tap the ball. Max must come back next week as his tap work is streets ahead. We mustn't underestimate the value of first use of the footy.

Also Hale does not ruck for long enough periods, Roughy spends too much time in the ruck.

I think we must play Hale and Max next week, see if both of them can fit into the one team.

Isn't it a great problem to have. If we combined Max centre square work with (zig) Hales around the ground work then we would have one heck of a ruck man. I.e. hale knows exactly where to be when playing up forward where hale is mostly in the correct position for a mark and shot on goal. Let hope all players keep fully fit, we don't play them when they have a 50 / 50 injury and the 'problem' continues.

Also, hale has been chopping up lesser opponents. Against WCE, adelaide and Sydney will be his real tests. Doesn't mean that max will beat these ruck combinations either.

 

[Henry Jr]

How about Bailey plays more than 2 games in a row before we all start penciling him in.

Plays against the Bombers and plays nowhere the following week.

 

[xellis]

He was ill apparently...

I'm all for playing both but I feel one of them would have to be subbed which is fine, until we cop an injury to a smaller player and we are left too tall.

It will come down to match ups as to whether both play in finals for mine

 

[Brant]

I'm still convinced that we'd be far better off resting our ruckmen on the bench & not clogging up our forwardline. I've had this thought the whole season & am convinced of it now more than ever. Especially against good defensive units (Geelong & Collingwood), the Ruckman resting at FF is s liability with the ease that they are 'run off' or 'zoned off'.

The 'Resting Ruckman' was a required fixture of our forwardline early in the season as Buddy was our only genuine Tall Forward (with Roughy returning to fitness & then playing 2nd Ruck/FF). Our Resting Ruck pretty much had to play forward to give us some ariel ability & a big body to bring the ball to ground.

We now have a fairly handy kid called Gunston as a 2nd Tall Forward giving us Buddy, Roughy* & Gunston or at worst, Buddy & Gunston (* Roughy still 2nd Ruck/FF).

The requirement for the Resting Ruckman to rest at FF is no longer there & as such we should get them the hell off the field & allow them to:

a) Actually rest; &
b) Allow some effective forwards/runners on the field.

 

[Thaihawk]

Could depend on who we are playing. Strong ruck divisions might require a stronger ruckman, which may mean Bailey.

I am of the same opinion as HR. Horses for courses.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

How about Bailey plays more than 2 games in a row before we all start penciling him in.

Plays against the Bombers and plays nowhere the following week.[/quote

It was a bad result for Max missing yet another game. At least sickness not injury this time. I reckon he needs to demonstrate he is fit enough to shoulder the #1 ruck position if he is going to make a legitimate claim to oust Hale come September.

 

[MinerBoy]

Hodge didn't provide any additional run anyway - at least kept Scarlett busy - once Hodge went off in the last, Scarlett was very prominent.

Did Scarlett play?

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Did Scarlett play?

Only in the last quarter when he moved up field with impunity to add another option for rebound. No offence to Savage intended, but even on one leg, Hodge was at least making Scarlett pay respect to Hodge. Scarlett (rightly) thought he didn't need to do the same to Savage.