TV Sopranos, what really happened next.

Virgil

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Whenever bad s**t is about to happen, people hold oranges, or drink orange juice... Chrissy came back to life as an Orange cat... scared the s**t out of Paulie ....

Its all based on how in Godfather Part 1 Vito Corleone gets gunned down at the fruit market, holding oranges.... like an homage
Ah, so he was, cheers.
 

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Chief

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The only obvious thing is that we're supposed to argue about it.

It could just as easily be the case that he spent a long life always afraid that the next person through the door would be his killer.
 

Rod Stroker

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Except Tony had already spoken with Bobby Baccala about how you died it all 'just goes to black, no sound, nothing'
The screen went black... just as Tony and Bobby said it would....
The exact quote from Bobby was:
“you probably don’t even hear it when it happens, right?”
Black is never mentioned in the conversation.

I've seen the show so many times and done a fair bit of research on the final scene in particular, and I'm still not convinced one way or the other if he is dead or not. The general consensus is that he is dead, and that is probably the convenient and obvious conclusion. But there are just as many arguments to substantiate that Tony did not die.
 

mr_cellotape

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Chief said:
It could just as easily be the case that he spent a long life always afraid that the next person through the door would be his killer.
Rod Stroker said:
But there are just as many arguments to substantiate that Tony did not die.
How does the flashback to Bobby's quote at the end of the penultimate episode fit in to these theories/arguments?
 

Karl Pilkington

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The only obvious thing is that we're supposed to argue about it.

It could just as easily be the case that he spent a long life always afraid that the next person through the door would be his killer.
No its obvious that he's dead. Anyone who thinks he's alive is wrong.

It isn't up for debate. All the clues are there, if chase was any less subtle he'd be literally beating us over the head with Tony's corpse.

The only people who aren't convinced, are people with no attention span.

jacked:

i) First episode of this season Bobby says you don’t hear it when you’re shot.


ii) Second to last episode of this season, Tony flashes to Bobby saying you don’t hear it when you’re shot.


iii) The entire story arc was about Tony - when Tony’s gone, the arc is done.


iv) In the diner, every time someone walked through the door, the perspective changed to Tony’s as he looked up


v) After the last bell jingle, just as the perspective changed to Tony’s everything went black and silent - as though the person whose perspective we were to shift to was no longer alive


vi) The cat was a reminder that Tony killed Chris, and had Adriana killed. The cat was a reminder that Tony’s a bad guy - who has it coming.


vii) There was so much symmetry between Phil’s execution in front of his family and Tony’s last moments


viii) We all know how much Godfather III ruined the Godfather movies. I think the focus on Meadow was a reference to the Godfather. David Chase didn’t end it the way Godfather III ended. This time the boss gets killed.


ix) Every other episode ended in music during the credits. This one had no music because Tony’s dead.


x) Episode titles have always meant something. This episode’s title referred to Bobby’s gift of the gun to Tony. When he gave it to him he made the comment about how everything would just go silent when you were shot.


xi) The ending was so incredibly brilliant. We all felt what it was like to be Tony in those final five minutes. We all felt nervous, anxious, just as he must have felt. After being absorbed into Tony’s experience, we were left with silence and blackness like death because…




Tony Soprano… is dead.
 

richskee

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No its obvious that he's dead. Anyone who thinks he's alive is wrong.

It isn't up for debate. All the clues are there, if chase was any less subtle he'd be literally beating us over the head with Tony's corpse.

The only people who aren't convinced, are people with no attention span.

jacked:

i) First episode of this season Bobby says you don’t hear it when you’re shot.


ii) Second to last episode of this season, Tony flashes to Bobby saying you don’t hear it when you’re shot.


iii) The entire story arc was about Tony - when Tony’s gone, the arc is done.


iv) In the diner, every time someone walked through the door, the perspective changed to Tony’s as he looked up


v) After the last bell jingle, just as the perspective changed to Tony’s everything went black and silent - as though the person whose perspective we were to shift to was no longer alive


vi) The cat was a reminder that Tony killed Chris, and had Adriana killed. The cat was a reminder that Tony’s a bad guy - who has it coming.


vii) There was so much symmetry between Phil’s execution in front of his family and Tony’s last moments


viii) We all know how much Godfather III ruined the Godfather movies. I think the focus on Meadow was a reference to the Godfather. David Chase didn’t end it the way Godfather III ended. This time the boss gets killed.


ix) Every other episode ended in music during the credits. This one had no music because Tony’s dead.


x) Episode titles have always meant something. This episode’s title referred to Bobby’s gift of the gun to Tony. When he gave it to him he made the comment about how everything would just go silent when you were shot.


xi) The ending was so incredibly brilliant. We all felt what it was like to be Tony in those final five minutes. We all felt nervous, anxious, just as he must have felt. After being absorbed into Tony’s experience, we were left with silence and blackness like death because…




Tony Soprano… is dead.

Please explain?
 

richskee

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hahaha just joking... I started watching the last season again and am looking out for any little hints like yours.

I beleive chase used the style of 'miseonseyne' (sounds french) where the images tell an underlying story/emotion/feeling.
 

Karl Pilkington

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hahaha just joking... I started watching the last season again and am looking out for any little hints like yours.

I beleive chase used the style of 'miseonseyne' (sounds french) where the images tell an underlying story/emotion/feeling.
there was a good article on it, even how they constructed the diner for the final scene, and the imagery behind tony on the walls... I'l try find it...

scroll down.... some political commentator... he craps on about how he's amazed so many people took his article as gospel and ra ra ra... but its brilliantly written and goes in to meticulous detail

http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/
 

richskee

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there was a good article on it, even how they constructed the diner for the final scene, and the imagery behind tony on the walls... I'l try find it...

scroll down.... some political commentator... he craps on about how he's amazed so many people took his article as gospel and ra ra ra... but its brilliantly written and goes in to meticulous detail

http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/
cheers, great read so far!
 

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Rod Stroker

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ix) Every other episode ended in music during the credits. This one had no music because Tony’s dead.
Again, not true. I'm starting to doubt if you've actually seen the show at all, and that perhaps you've just lifted your arguments from somewhere else.

Tell me this then: who would have put the hit out to kill Tony when all his enemies were already dead?
 

Karl Pilkington

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Again, not true. I'm starting to doubt if you've actually seen the show at all, and that perhaps you've just lifted your arguments from somewhere else.
Actually, it is true. Go back and watch again.

And wtf do you mean by 'again' when nobody has stated a single thing I've posted has been wrong. for there to be an 'again' there has to be a 'first'.

If you've got something to add, do it. I've made it pretty clear as to why Tony is dead - David Chase has made it even more clear btw - nobody has given a single decent theory as to why tony would be alive. Read the link I posted.

Picking out one argument out of the hundreds that have been posted or linked to is pretty weak sauce. Not only that, you haven't given a single example of another episode that ended as abruptly or without music.

Happy to stand corrected if you can.

Tell me this then: who would have put the hit out to kill Tony when all his enemies were already dead?
Tony had a million enemies. New Jersey were getting very sloppy, all of his close friends were either dead or incapacitated. New York could have wanted to tidy things up, or a different crew in Jersey may have decided they could off Tony as he was getting weak. It is left thoroughly ambiguous who killed him, but there are dozens of potential killers.

EDIT: Actually I checked, there is ONE other episode that didn't have music at the end credits, but it still had noise (Of Chris' hospital equipment - meaning the finale is still the only ep that went silent at the end) and NO other episode that suddenly went to black, instead of fading.

So please, based on this tiny error of miniscule importance go on believing Tony survived, in spite of the hundreds of other reasons that suggest he died.
 

Rod Stroker

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Actually, it is true.
Actually, it's not.
Go back and watch again.
Don't need to.
And wtf do you mean by 'again' when nobody has stated a single thing I've posted has been wrong.
Nobody else needed to. You shot yourself in the foot when you claimed that Bobby and Tony said it 'just goes to black, no sound, nothing'. They didn't say that at all. I'm still amazed at how many apparent "fans" get this wrong.
Then you claimed 'Every other episode ended in music during the credits'. Wrong again. So that's 2 strikes and losing credibility fast.
If you've got something to add, do it. I've made it pretty clear as to why Tony is dead - David Chase has made it even more clear btw - nobody has given a single decent theory as to why tony would be alive. Read the link I posted.
I read it last year, along with probably almost every other posting to do with the last episode. I could post links with reasons as to why he isn't dead, but you seem pretty convinced, so no point.
 

Karl Pilkington

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Actually, it's not.

Don't need to.

Nobody else needed to. You shot yourself in the foot when you claimed that Bobby and Tony said it 'just goes to black, no sound, nothing'. They didn't say that at all. I'm still amazed at how many apparent "fans" get this wrong.
Then you claimed 'Every other episode ended in music during the credits'. Wrong again. So that's 2 strikes and losing credibility fast.
Except that the general gist of that point regarding Bobby and tony's conversation stands up, as does the point of the final episode being the ONLY episode that ends in total silence.

I read it last year, along with probably almost every other posting to do with the last episode. I could post links with reasons as to why he isn't dead, but you seem pretty convinced, so no point.
No, please, do post. I wold love to have a good laugh.
 

Virgil

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Except that the general gist of that point regarding Bobby and tony's conversation stands up, as does the point of the final episode being the ONLY episode that ends in total silence.
It's supposed to end in total silence. Having the theme music play afterwards would kinda ruin the atmosphere. The conversation he has with Bobby doesn't prove that he is dead, moments like that are thrown in to make you wonder whether he is dead or not. There's nothing conclusive either way.
 

Karl Pilkington

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It's supposed to end in total silence. Having the theme music play afterwards would kinda ruin the atmosphere. The conversation he has with Bobby doesn't prove that he is dead, moments like that are thrown in to make you wonder whether he is dead or not. There's nothing conclusive either way.
IT ends abruptly and in total silence for a reason. It is hardly the ONLY reason why its obvious he's dead either. It's one of about 150 reasons.

Read the link.
 

Chief

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No its obvious that he's dead. Anyone who thinks he's alive is wrong.

It isn't up for debate. All the clues are there, if chase was any less subtle he'd be literally beating us over the head with Tony's corpse.

The only people who aren't convinced, are people with no attention span.
Or those who haven't read the right web sites ;)
 

Karl Pilkington

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I know it ends in total silence for a reason. I just think you've got the wrong reason, the whole point of that ending was so that the audience would not know what happened.
Then how do you explain the countless other clues and perfect logic to show Tony is dead?

The oranges? The cat? The orange cat? Members Only jacket? The way every time the bell rings we see it from Tony's viewpoint?

All coincidence and sloppy storytelling from Chase was it?
 

Virgil

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Then how do you explain the countless other clues and perfect logic to show Tony is dead?

The oranges? The cat? The orange cat? Members Only jacket? The way every time the bell rings we see it from Tony's viewpoint?

All coincidence and sloppy storytelling from Chase was it?
No, it isn't coincidental. To give people the sense of unknowing (Is he alive? Was he killed?), there needs to be a reason to believe that he is dead, otherwise it makes no sense. The symbolism gives clues that he may have been killed, it doesn't actually prove anything. What makes you think all the symbolism isn't for the "death" of the series, rather than the main character himself?

Slightly off topic, I love that guy's explanation of the onion rings. I was actively wondering why none of the characters bit the onion rings when they were eating them when I watched the ending last night. Strange thing to focus on...
 

Karl Pilkington

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Slightly off topic, I love that guy's explanation of the onion rings. I was actively wondering why none of the characters bit the onion rings when they were eating them when I watched the ending last night. Strange thing to focus on...
And its that kind of detail and analysis that convinces me he's on the money. Even minor details like that, Chase would have thought of before filming.
 

rupert pupkin 87

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No its obvious that he's dead. Anyone who thinks he's alive is wrong.

It isn't up for debate. All the clues are there, if chase was any less subtle he'd be literally beating us over the head with Tony's corpse.

The only people who aren't convinced, are people with no attention span.

jacked:

i) First episode of this season Bobby says you don’t hear it when you’re shot.


ii) Second to last episode of this season, Tony flashes to Bobby saying you don’t hear it when you’re shot.


iii) The entire story arc was about Tony - when Tony’s gone, the arc is done.


iv) In the diner, every time someone walked through the door, the perspective changed to Tony’s as he looked up


v) After the last bell jingle, just as the perspective changed to Tony’s everything went black and silent - as though the person whose perspective we were to shift to was no longer alive


vi) The cat was a reminder that Tony killed Chris, and had Adriana killed. The cat was a reminder that Tony’s a bad guy - who has it coming.


vii) There was so much symmetry between Phil’s execution in front of his family and Tony’s last moments


viii) We all know how much Godfather III ruined the Godfather movies. I think the focus on Meadow was a reference to the Godfather. David Chase didn’t end it the way Godfather III ended. This time the boss gets killed.


ix) Every other episode ended in music during the credits. This one had no music because Tony’s dead.


x) Episode titles have always meant something. This episode’s title referred to Bobby’s gift of the gun to Tony. When he gave it to him he made the comment about how everything would just go silent when you were shot.


xi) The ending was so incredibly brilliant. We all felt what it was like to be Tony in those final five minutes. We all felt nervous, anxious, just as he must have felt. After being absorbed into Tony’s experience, we were left with silence and blackness like death because…




Tony Soprano… is dead.
Said it all perfectly mate.
 

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