Movie Star Wars - Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker - Spoilers and Rumors

[theyellowsash]

Is it inconsistent if I thought much of those multiple sources were sh*t as well?

while some of the dialogue isnt great (yeah, the everything you said was wrong this is pretty meh), i dont think his character is that inconsistent with the OT. in the originals he is shown to be stubborn, headstrong, very willing to ignore advice and cynical. pretty much his whole time on degoba he shows those qualities. Being a good person is not mutually exclusive to those qualities, in fact part of the reason he beats the emperor is because he is stubborn, headstrong and self confident. Its not hard to see how a person who is well intentioned, confident and slightly cynical, could be broken into being a cynical loner if their good intentions cause a massive catastrophe and destroys his self confidence. And his lapse in judgement over ben isn't that out of the realms of his character either. its easy to see how someone so confident in themselves and so intent on doing good and saving the galaxy, could have a lapse in judgement if they think they need to choose between the galaxy or their nephew. in the OT he did nearly succumb to the dark side a couple of times already, and he did go against yodas wishes to go to cloud city and mostly made things worse despite good intentions, so occasional poor judgement with the right intentions isnt out of the ordinary either.

generally i ignore poor sections of dialogue for the general character development or story. find me a movie that doesnt have a few lines where you go meh. 1 or 2 poor lines doesnt undo logical character progression or multiple movies of history.

 

[JackOutback]

while some of the dialogue isnt great (yeah, the everything you said was wrong this is pretty meh), i dont think his character is that inconsistent with the OT. in the originals he is shown to be stubborn, headstrong, very willing to ignore advice and cynical. pretty much his whole time on degoba he shows those qualities. Being a good person is not mutually exclusive to those qualities, in fact part of the reason he beats the emperor is because he is stubborn, headstrong and self confident. Its not hard to see how a person who is well intentioned, confident and slightly cynical, could be broken into being a cynical loner if their good intentions cause a massive catastrophe and destroys his self confidence. And his lapse in judgement over ben isn't that out of the realms of his character either. its easy to see how someone so confident in themselves and so intent on doing good and saving the galaxy, could have a lapse in judgement if they think they need to choose between the galaxy or their nephew. in the OT he did nearly succumb to the dark side a couple of times already, and he did go against yodas wishes to go to cloud city and mostly made things worse despite good intentions, so occasional poor judgement with the right intentions isnt out of the ordinary either.

generally i ignore poor sections of dialogue for the general character development or story. find me a movie that doesnt have a few lines where you go meh. 1 or 2 poor lines doesnt undo logical character progression or multiple movies of history.

Well said, Luke states outright that the problem is he bought into the legend of Luke Skywalker and it led to his greatest failure.

Also, people seem to think that when a character develops in movies, that becomes their default setting and the only character trait they can be defined by. TLJ created a new character arc that added to his learnings, it didn't take away from it.

 

[SM]

Is it inconsistent if I thought much of those multiple sources were sh*t as well?

NJO wasn't s**t mate, come on. But it does beg the question that if you don't like the ancillary material and don't like the films being churned out, what are you in it for?

 

[edgie]

NJO wasn't sh*t mate, come on. But it does beg the question that if you don't like the ancillary material and don't like the films being churned out, what are you in it for?

I didn't like the direction episodes 8 and 9 went in and didn't like the complete lack of meaningful original direction in 7.

What am I in it for? Well I thought Mandalorian was pretty great, Clone Wars was quite good, and I enjoy much of the video games, albeit more for fun gameplay than story. I'm in it because stories and characters from the OT are timeless and I still find the PT a lot of fun if seriously flawed with moments of awesome scattered throughouot.

What is with this attitude that if I don't like the sequels and I don't like much of the old EU nor do I care a lot for post Disney replacing what little of the originals I did like, that I should just * right off and not bother with a story and franchise that I still love much more than I hate?

C'mon mate thought you were above that.

 

[edgie]

while some of the dialogue isnt great (yeah, the everything you said was wrong this is pretty meh), i dont think his character is that inconsistent with the OT. in the originals he is shown to be stubborn, headstrong, very willing to ignore advice and cynical. pretty much his whole time on degoba he shows those qualities. Being a good person is not mutually exclusive to those qualities, in fact part of the reason he beats the emperor is because he is stubborn, headstrong and self confident. Its not hard to see how a person who is well intentioned, confident and slightly cynical, could be broken into being a cynical loner if their good intentions cause a massive catastrophe and destroys his self confidence. And his lapse in judgement over ben isn't that out of the realms of his character either. its easy to see how someone so confident in themselves and so intent on doing good and saving the galaxy, could have a lapse in judgement if they think they need to choose between the galaxy or their nephew. in the OT he did nearly succumb to the dark side a couple of times already, and he did go against yodas wishes to go to cloud city and mostly made things worse despite good intentions, so occasional poor judgement with the right intentions isnt out of the ordinary either.

generally i ignore poor sections of dialogue for the general character development or story. find me a movie that doesnt have a few lines where you go meh. 1 or 2 poor lines doesnt undo logical character progression or multiple movies of history.

It wasn't a lapse in judgement, the whole shitty scene went for nearly a minute.

I don't mind where Luke ended up as I've said before. I just think the WHY is nowhere near strong enough to warrant it, and yes, it inconsistent with TFA.

 

[Ry009]

All 3 movies did a disservice to Star Wars, but having been introduced to the Clone Wars and Rebels now (I'd also chuck in the story of Fallen Order which was movie quality IMO), along with Mandalorian they don't draw my ire as they once did.

Plenty of content to enjoy in the Star Wars universe outside of the main saga.

 

[SM]

I didn't like the direction episodes 8 and 9 went in and didn't like the complete lack of meaningful original direction in 7.

What am I in it for? Well I thought Mandalorian was pretty great, Clone Wars was quite good, and I enjoy much of the video games, albeit more for fun gameplay than story. I'm in it because stories and characters from the OT are timeless and I still find the PT a lot of fun if seriously flawed with moments of awesome scattered throughouot.

What is with this attitude that if I don't like the sequels and I don't like much of the old EU nor do I care a lot for post Disney replacing what little of the originals I did like, that I should just fu** right off and not bother with a story and franchise that I still love much more than I hate?

C'mon mate thought you were above that.

Thought you complained regularly about The Mandalorian having self-contained episodes? Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

I'm not saying you should * off, I asked what are you in it for. No need to get snippy.

 

[edgie]

Thought you complained regularly about The Mandalorian having self-contained episodes? Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

I'm not saying you should fu** off, I asked what are you in it for. No need to get snippy.

No you remember right.

I did complain about it in an eight episode season at the time, and I don't regret or take it back, but sometimes things can end on such a high it doesn't matter how it started.

I guess it s**t me more that many episodes ended on a tease or cliffhanger sorta thing before the self contained episodes, that was worse. Clean endings on the prior episodes woulda alleviated much of that.

 

[theyellowsash]

No you remember right.

I did complain about it in an eight episode season at the time, and I don't regret or take it back, but sometimes things can end on such a high it doesn't matter how it started.

I guess it sh*t me more that many episodes ended on a tease or cliffhanger sorta thing before the self contained episodes, that was worse. Clean endings on the prior episodes woulda alleviated much of that.

I'd agree that the self contained episodes was an issue for me, just because the episodes were so short. Like the bo katan episode, where so much time was spent setting up his meeting with them that they ended up having a couple of minutes to take over the ship.

Dr who does it better. 1hr self contained episodes but links into an overarching story that ties together in the last couple episodes.

 

[theyellowsash]

It wasn't a lapse in judgement, the whole shitty scene went for nearly a minute.

I don't mind where Luke ended up as I've said before. I just think the WHY is nowhere near strong enough to warrant it, and yes, it inconsistent with TFA.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. It's a 1 minute scene to show what happens in Luke's mind in probably seconds. Half the scene is in slow motion too. Movie time doesnt equal realtime.

Besides a 1 minute scene out of hours of movie is a pretty small sample.

 

[glenferry23]

All 3 movies did a disservice to Star Wars, but having been introduced to the Clone Wars and Rebels now (I'd also chuck in the story of Fallen Order which was movie quality IMO), along with Mandalorian they don't draw my ire as they once did.

Plenty of content to enjoy in the Star Wars universe outside of the main saga.

Very much agree. Even after the prequels, I hadn’t felt as apathetic towards Star Wars as I did when the sequel trilogy finished. The dissatisfaction does still linger, however mostly because it shouldn’t have been that way (Disney had all the resources in the world to deliver, yet inexcusably they didn’t).

That’s largely passed now. I thought the Clone Wars final season was excellent, and then of course The Mandalorian season 2. Now that’s how you contain spoilers. Never saw that coming and it was so much better as a result. The last 15 minutes or so are about as an emotional and moving experience as I’ve ever had in Star Wars.

I have renewed hope for the future content.

 

[Gasometer]

My mate who was a huge SW fan (we went to all of the sequels at midnight) won’t even talk SW to me after this abomination of a movie. Destroyed his whole love for the franchise.

Like above loved the last episode of Mando 2.

Try telling him to go watch both seasons.

Won’t even speak

 

[JackOutback]

Still a bad movie and a bad creative choice to bring the Emperor but at least this explanation is sound and interesting. If only some of the background to the First order in particular and the Emperor had been included in the films. But this is how they will go about restoring the sequel trilogy in years to come, building a more coherent, interesting landscape.

Star Wars Just Answered the Question The Rise of Skywalker Couldn't

Details of Palpatine's revival have been scattered across Star Wars media, but an official overview is now available.

www.cbr.com

 

[Exe Gesis]

What a load of crap.

 

[theyellowsash]

Still a bad movie and a bad creative choice to bring the Emperor but at least this explanation is sound and interesting. If only some of the background to the First order in particular and the Emperor had been included in the films. But this is how they will go about restoring the sequel trilogy in years to come, building a more coherent, interesting landscape.

Star Wars Just Answered the Question The Rise of Skywalker Couldn't

Details of Palpatine's revival have been scattered across Star Wars media, but an official overview is now available.

www.cbr.com

still doesnt do it for me. its still ridiculous. ignoring all the other faults with the movie, simply making it snoke instead would have been 1000 times better.

 

[edgie]

Still a bad movie and a bad creative choice to bring the Emperor but at least this explanation is sound and interesting. If only some of the background to the First order in particular and the Emperor had been included in the films. But this is how they will go about restoring the sequel trilogy in years to come, building a more coherent, interesting landscape.

Star Wars Just Answered the Question The Rise of Skywalker Couldn't

Details of Palpatine's revival have been scattered across Star Wars media, but an official overview is now available.

www.cbr.com

ARE YOU FOR REAL???

YOU'VE SPENT THE LAST FIVE YEARS BANGING ON THAT EXPOSITION AND BACKGROUND IN THE FILMS HASN'T BEEN NECESSARY!

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[glenferry23]

That’s a very generous summary Jack, I read it and it’s still nonsensical. It should never have happened.

 

[JackOutback]

ARE YOU FOR REAL???

YOU'VE SPENT THE LAST FIVE YEARS BANGING ON THAT EXPOSITION AND BACKGROUND IN THE FILMS HASN'T BEEN NECESSARY!

Sent from my Nokia 7.2 using Tapatalk

Sure I have.

That’s a very generous summary Jack, I read it and it’s still nonsensical. It should never have happened.

It's a sound base. Look, I don't like the fact the Emperor returned, I don't like Dark Empire, the only writer that really made clones work was Timothy Zahn. But clones are an established part of Star Wars, so if we accept that the Emperor transferred his consciousness to the clone (and we have to because it's in the film), the retreat to Exegol, Operation Cinder to punish the galaxy, a rebuilding of his troops from in hiding, an attempt to perfect his body fit the films. It's now up to the books and any future shows to flesh out the landscape and make it better.

The prequels weren't good, in particular the flipping of expectations about which side the clones were on still nags, but people say the books and cartoons gave it more depth and made it more interesting. That's the challenge now.

 

[edgie]

With one exception, Sifo Dyas, not one element of the prequels story needed fleshing out.

The supporting media has improved the era but I don't think it has had to prop up the movies.

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[Exe Gesis]

Good point. The ST makes little sense if you watched only 7,8,9. Whereas the PT and OT, if you only saw either, make sense in their own little world.

 

[glenferry23]

Sure I have.


It's a sound base. Look, I don't like the fact the Emperor returned, I don't like Dark Empire, the only writer that really made clones work was Timothy Zahn. But clones are an established part of Star Wars, so if we accept that the Emperor transferred his consciousness to the clone (and we have to because it's in the film), the retreat to Exegol, Operation Cinder to punish the galaxy, a rebuilding of his troops from in hiding, an attempt to perfect his body fit the films. It's now up to the books and any future shows to flesh out the landscape and make it better.

The prequels weren't good, in particular the flipping of expectations about which side the clones were on still nags, but people say the books and cartoons gave it more depth and made it more interesting. That's the challenge now.

Without wanting to go down the prequels v OT v sequels tangent, I don’t believe any of the prequels’ flaws were as significant as to what the sequels did. The nonsensical things the force can now do is a prime example. And the way it almost shat on the whole “chosen one” arc of the first 6 films by then bringing Palpatine back out of nowhere.

The backbone of the story of the prequels is fine, obviously it’s execution (acting, dialogue etc) is well documented. I’m not across all of the supporting material from it, but what I have seen does a nice job fleshing out bits and pieces here and there.

Example, The Bad Batch is currently doing an excellent job showing the emergence of the Empire from the perspective of other planets, and the Empire’s decision to move away from clonetroopers. Nice little enhancements from the established story that we know of, rather than larger pieces of revisionism that we kind of now have to accept.

No one really believes Lucasfilm anyway when they pretended Palpatine’s return was always part of the plan, so it’s difficult to buy into this concept proposed to flesh that out more. Anyway, it is what it is. It just shouldn’t have happened.

 

[JackOutback]

With one exception, Sifo Dyas, not one element of the prequels story needed fleshing out.

The supporting media has improved the era but I don't think it has had to prop up the movies.

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I don't necessarily disagree with this, the overall foundations were more solid at the end than the ST's were.

Without wanting to go down the prequels v OT v sequels tangent, I don’t believe any of the prequels’ flaws were as significant as to what the sequels did. The nonsensical things the force can now do is a prime example. And the way it almost shat on the whole “chosen one” arc of the first 6 films by then bringing Palpatine back out of nowhere.

The backbone of the story of the prequels is fine, obviously it’s execution (acting, dialogue etc) is well documented. I’m not across all of the supporting material from it, but what I have seen does a nice job fleshing out bits and pieces here and there.

Example, The Bad Batch is currently doing an excellent job showing the emergence of the Empire from the perspective of other planets, and the Empire’s decision to move away from clonetroopers. Nice little enhancements from the established story that we know of, rather than larger pieces of revisionism that we kind of now have to accept.

No one really believes Lucasfilm anyway when they pretended Palpatine’s return was always part of the plan, so it’s difficult to buy into this concept proposed to flesh that out more. Anyway, it is what it is. It just shouldn’t have happened.

Or this. That said, I still stand by the fact that TFA and TLJ didn't need much more explaining other than some background detail on how the First Order formed in the first and just how they asserted their grip so quickly in the second. All the other important mysteries (the conclusion of Rey's heritage, Ren's fate, Snoke's influence) would have been addressed in the third, but they screwed the pooch by completely rewriting the narrative.

 

[SM]

I don't necessarily disagree with this, the overall foundations were more solid at the end than the ST's were.


Or this. That said, I still stand by the fact that TFA and TLJ didn't need much more explaining other than some background detail on how the First Order formed in the first and just how they asserted their grip so quickly in the second. All the other important mysteries (the conclusion of Rey's heritage, Ren's fate, Snoke's influence) would have been addressed in the third, but they screwed the pooch by completely rewriting the narrative.

Wow after 5 years on this board I'm finally getting a sense of communal agreement about SW content.

 

[JackOutback]

Wow after 5 years on this board I'm finally getting a sense of communal agreement about SW content.

I've never disagreed that the foundations of a solid movie are there, midichlorians excepted. They are still pretty s**t movies though (and I include ROTS in that after pretty recent viewings). Would be ripe for a remake that could be amazing.

I still think the first two movies of the ST are very good, and the overall trilogy is better acted, with better dialogue etc, but the third movie just pulled all the foundations down. Would be ripe for a third act remake that could be amazing.

 

[edgie]

You literally earlier complained about the lack of backstory regarding the First Order, surely, surely the first two films should be more responsible for that than the last one?

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