Play Nice Still no evidence against Melbourne re: tanking

[Demonic_Inferno]

So the AFL are investigating something without any real evidence, and based solely on the defamatory claims of Caroline Wilson?

Let's see the results of the investigation shall we? Has the word 'alleged' been used in these articles? The investigation is fine, if proven innocent of these charges I hope to see numerous people named and shamed for defamation. Wilson in a caravan park would be a start.

 

[Old Spice]

The computers have been taken so it's only a matter of time before Melbourne get done over royally.

On the basis of witnesses alone they are screwed, any extra evidence only dictates the severity of the punishment.

 

[FGMPR]

Might not be serious. His or her avatar appears to be that of the Iraqi information minister.

I just thought of something. His/her avatar is extremely low-res which means its from before the big BF make over from a month or two ago. Combine that with a fairly active, 4 year old account and I'm pretty sure he isn't a troll and that his/her avatar is actually the most beautiful piece irony I have come across in a long, long time.

 

[Kwality]

Let's see the results of the investigation shall we? Has the word 'alleged' been used in these articles? The investigation is fine, if proven innocent of these charges I hope to see numerous people named and shamed for defamation. Wilson in a caravan park would be a start.

Fairfax legalled all articles, ring Tom Waterhouse & see what odds a clean sheet for Melbourne are ...

 

[Frank Grimes]

You know, it wouldn't actually surprise me if Caro's story tomorrow reveals the Demons actually taped the "Vault meeting" and that all those involved made Big Brother Diary Room style confessions to their part in the conspiracy.

And the Melbourne supporters will still be saying theres no evidence.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Unless there is a Sworn confession or documents detailing specifics in aiding to lose matches then Melbourne will be fine.

 

[believe_it]

Whilst there is some sort of tangible pleasure seeing opposition clubs in the shit - something doesn't quite sit right. A situation where if a team tries its hardest to win a game they will be punished for it in the future and if they don't try they will also be punished.

I think the outrage at tanking is more of a concern to the AFL with regard to result determination that getting more favourable draft options. Teams that have tanked have done it so that in the future they will improve in performance . However the fixing of a result has far more sinister consequences when considering AFL's incestuous relationship with gambling.

Given the frequency and often unnecessary on-field rule changes - why is it so hard to implement a draft procedure that takes away the incentive to tank? There may be less benefit to some some bottom teams but they would still be favoured relative to the top teams. It also seems that it is how a draft pick is actually used is more of a determinant of its success rather than it's position up or down a few notches.

 

[morgoth]

Melbourne are in deep, deep shit.

Anyone who thinks they are getting off, that their is no evidence is deluded. The constant leaks tell you this is building up a head of steam like when Carlton went before the commission. The AFL has been embarrassed, it will have its revenge.

 

[Bosk]

Trial by media.

Trial by Bigfooty.

End result? Melbourne will be cleared of any wrongdoing and all the tossers on this forum will be crying about it like 5 year old girls.

You are laughably deluded if you really believe that.

Melbourne will be punished for tanking, and rightly so. The AFL needs to put their foot down and stamp it out of the game, and by punishing Melbourne they'll be sending a message to the effect that "if you tank and get caught we will **** you sideways".

I only hope they DON'T stop at Melbourne and punish all the other clubs who've also tanked. Yes, even Hawthorn if they deem that the Hawks tanked at some stage.
Unfortunately this seems unlikely to happen, at least in the case of Collingwood who the AFL would never dare raise their hand against. Sadly its all about politics, appearances and money at AFL House, fairness barely gets a look in.

 

[kongo]

"What Melbourne did in manipulating results was disgusting. The result of the fix was pathetic. To think that so many reputations could be destroyed and so many playing careers hurt all for one ambitious young footballer who began looking for a way out of the place after only one year.

If what some former players and coaches say is true, then the tanking was only the half of it. But to put in the fix for Tom Scully and not to create a training and development laboratory for all similarly-talented young men to improve and retain them is just so glaringly short-sighted. All those early draft picks gone. All those disillusioned once-proud Demons. What a sorry story."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-shock--awful-20121102-28ppz.html#ixzz2B4AmnvXr

Caro hits the nail on the head here, again.

Despite what the general consensus here is on her writing, she has done bloody well all this week.

 

[forwardflanker]

You Melbourne are going to cop a hit. A more interesting question is whether they as a club will be able to survive if hit with a hefty punishment as expected. Carlton really really struggled after their cheating and given they are 2x - 3x the size of Melbourne you would think the dees are in real trouble.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Unless there is a Sworn confession or documents detailing specifics in aiding to lose matches then Melbourne will be fine.

One of the supposed witnesses is Bailey. He will surely be able to provide that.

Dispite that, there probably is enough evidence as it is. There seems to be a lot of arm chair legal expert on Big Footy. Many people seem to think the evidence need to prove beyond reasonable doubt. If it was a Murder trial that would be true, but if it was taken to court it would be a civil matter which has a different criteria for proof.

I admit I'm no legal expert so I won't speculate if there is not enough evidence. But Caroline Wilson is clearly being fed the information from the AFL. Even though Andrew Demetriou had his head in the sand, the one thing he is not is stupid. The AFL wouldn't be leaking this information unless if they believe that they have enough evidence to penalise Melbourne.

 

[Bosk]

How much responsibility will the AFL take in all this?

Excellent question.

Little to none, I'd imagine given its past history. Unless Vlad is inclined to throw one of his henchmen under a bus as the sacrificial lamb for the public, perhaps someone who's challenged his authority in recent times. That's generally how dictators operate isn't it?

 

[Zach Package]

Despite the Andrew Demetriou may have had his head in the sand but the one thing is not is stupid.

Bad call Gary...

 

[Dominator_7]

Dees are well and truly screwed and they know it. The President down to the playing group were all culpable. Why do you think they were so quick to trade away their early draft picks, and lined their playing list with ordinary players from other clubs.
Should be heavily fined, and stripped of this years 1st and 2nd round draft picks (including Jack Viney, as well as 1st and 2nd round picks from next year.

 

[theflea]

There is no shortage of intensely stupid people on this earth, nor sheep. Melbourne won't be penalised, and I will be looking for an apology from all those who have claimed we will be, though I won't get it.

I'm more interested if the MFC can sue those claiming these unproveable claims in the media. I'd like to see C. Wilson living in a caravan park by the beginning of next season.

quoting sir alec guinness in star wars 'who's the fool, the fool or the fool who follows?'

 

[Bosk]

I understand perfectly, but if the AFL were to come out and strip us of this year's draft picks, and next year's, and impose heavy fines, that is if we see salary cap breaching type penalties, we are completely and utterly screwed. At the moment we're just moderately screwed.

I personally don't think this will happen and sanity will prevail, but people are proposing this as a possibility. So if heavy penalties were to happen, we'd surely contest it in court.

Best of luck to Melbourne if they take the AFL to court, only a word of warning first - do that and you might suddenly find that it is Melbourne (and not Hawthorn) who suddenly gets the hardest draw in the league in 2014... and in 2015.... and 2016...

See where I'm going here? The AFL makes the rules. They can and do make new rules and alter existing ones to screw over certain teams or players. They also control the MRP, the Tribunal, and the Umpires.
If Melbourne thinks taking the AFL to court is a great idea let them go right ahead. Just don't be surprised when your club gets rogered by the league every year because it won't be a coincidence.

 

[Bosk]

Or the AFL Commission reviews the investigation, finds no players were ever instructed to take the field and play dead and says "see, we told you that tanking does not exist in the AFL."

That is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.

I hate the idea that only Melbourne will be punished when clearly other clubs were doing exactly the same thing (Carlton especially) but there's absolutely zero doubt Melbourne WILL be punished. Things have gone too far, the investigation has uncovered too many indications of guilt for the AFL to sweep it under the rug now. In fact the last chance for them to do so probably died when they launched the investigation in the first place.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

How is it tanking by playing players out of position?
You have a crap side, can't make finals, so, you look to the future

Hawthorn sucked in 05, and Clarke put mark Williams at FF
That was playing him out of position (he was an average midfielder), we also played the likes of vandenberg, on ball, and he was an average fwd

Feel for the dees, their lack of improvement over several yrs isn't tanking, it's trying to imitate what another club did and failing

 

[Purple Suit]

"What Melbourne did in manipulating results was disgusting. The result of the fix was pathetic. To think that so many reputations could be destroyed and so many playing careers hurt all for one ambitious young footballer who began looking for a way out of the place after only one year.

If what some former players and coaches say is true, then the tanking was only the half of it. But to put in the fix for Tom Scully and not to create a training and development laboratory for all similarly-talented young men to improve and retain them is just so glaringly short-sighted. All those early draft picks gone. All those disillusioned once-proud Demons. What a sorry story."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-shock--awful-20121102-28ppz.html#ixzz2B4AmnvXr

Caro hits the nail on the head here, again.

Despite what the general consensus here is on her writing, she has done bloody well all this week.

The thing she gets wrong is completely letting the AFL off for not doing anything about tanking. She claims that the AFL isn't to blame for tanking, yet they created the environment and ignored the issue.

If someone dies at a work site, management cannot hide behind their procedures. It's the actions and culture that determines the outcome. The AFL deliberately let it slide and pretended it wasn't happening. This is the result and both would be jointly culpable in different degrees in the court of law if it was a work safety outcome.

 

[FGMPR]

The thing she gets wrong is completely letting the AFL off for not doing anything about tanking. She claims that the AFL isn't to blame for tanking, yet they created the environment and ignored the issue.

If someone dies at a work site, management cannot hide behind their procedures. It's the actions and culture that determines the outcome. The AFL deliberately let it slide and pretended it wasn't happening. This is the result and both would be jointly culpable in different degrees in the court of law if it was a work safety outcome.

If Caro's source/s are straight from AFL HQ, she is possibly softening the blowback to Vlad & Co in exchange for the scoop.

 

[Bluelegs]

"What Melbourne did in manipulating results was disgusting. The result of the fix was pathetic. To think that so many reputations could be destroyed and so many playing careers hurt all for one ambitious young footballer who began looking for a way out of the place after only one year.

If what some former players and coaches say is true, then the tanking was only the half of it. But to put in the fix for Tom Scully and not to create a training and development laboratory for all similarly-talented young men to improve and retain them is just so glaringly short-sighted. All those early draft picks gone. All those disillusioned once-proud Demons. What a sorry story."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-shock--awful-20121102-28ppz.html#ixzz2B4AmnvXr

Caro hits the nail on the head here, again.

Despite what the general consensus here is on her writing, she has done bloody well all this week.

Wow Caro really is milking this for all she can. No new information contained in that article and a writer who once condemned the AFL for their incompetence when it came to the tanking issue is now defending them. Caro seems to be writing AFL propaganda now, and it's unsurprising. For a case which the AFL have seemed desperate to keep confidential it's amazing how much information Wilson has managed to extort from loose-lipped witnesses. Surely the AFL would tell these witnesses to not talk to the press about a confidential investigation. Amazing that they didn't listen and all of them spilled their guts to Wilson and only her.

No. Caroline has one source in all of this, that is the AFL who are doing damage control of their own to create a visage of villainy that would be the Melbourne Football Club, and why wouldn't they? The AFL have been, for years, slammed for their ignorant approach to the tanking issue. Too afraid to open that can of worms which could expose an issue that has plagued the competition for up to ten years. Unfortunately their hand has been forced and in order to avoid the massive embarrassment they've paid off a journalist who has a lust for a good exposé. So Caro has sold her soul to the AFL for the chance to break the biggest story of the year and now writes vitriolic propaganda pieces to protect the reputation of the white collars who run the joint and have been shown up for their incompetence to enforce the rules of the game, and creating an environment where cheaters believed they could prosper.

 

[Purple Suit]

If Caro's source/s are straight from AFL HQ, she is possibly softening the blowback to Vlad & Co in exchange for the scoop.

That sounds spot on. She's the head propaganda writer for the AFL! Viva La Vlad

 

[Bluelegs]

Best of luck to Melbourne if they take the AFL to court, only a word of warning first - do that and you might suddenly find that it is Melbourne (and not Hawthorn) who suddenly gets the hardest draw in the league in 2014... and in 2015.... and 2016...

See where I'm going here? The AFL makes the rules. They can and do make new rules and alter existing ones to screw over certain teams or players. They also control the MRP, the Tribunal, and the Umpires.
If Melbourne thinks taking the AFL to court is a great idea let them go right ahead. Just don't be surprised when your club gets rogered by the league every year because it won't be a coincidence.

A hard draw would be great, play teams like Collingwood, and hawthorn twice means bigger crowds and the players learn how to play against the best

 

[Badesumofu]

If these journos were simply making all this up, then Chris Connolly and co. would have plenty to say about it. They've said nothing, because the AFL has told them to stay quiet while they investigate. Ultimately, it's not a case of 'believing everything you read in newspapers'. The newspapers are merely reporting on an AFL investigation. They aren't the ones doing the digging.