Stop the boats. 5k a head. (cont. in Part 2)

[midorigreenwood]

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-po...ermanent-protection-visas-20140703-3bbbz.html

and this is Morrison's latest gamble..

Taking a squiz at the migration regulations concerning protection visas....

866.226 The Minister is satisfied that the grant of the visa is in the national interest

I'm no lawyer but that sounds pretty cut and dry..... which makes one wonder what the last six months of obfuscation was about.

I swear sometimes I wonder if Morrison is simply trolling the other side.

 

[GuruJane]

Gurujane. You don't actually care about the relevance of any topic at all. You will defend the Abbott Government to the death.
You constantly try to change the discussion to absolutes, when there are none. You use these fake absolutes, that you created, to make an irrelevant point.
When you are called out, you ignore it completely, or you deflect.


You are one of the worst posters on this forum, but you don't care. As long as you are not banned, you will continue to propagate your pro-Abbott bullshit, no matter how many people have put you on ignore, or pointed out that you are full of shit.

Try defending your position for once, and see what happens. Don't just make grandiose statements to impress the simpletons and jump to the opposite of simplifying the argument to binary, to just suit whatever agenda you chose at the time.

It fools no one. You're an idiot.

Won that one but who cares.

 

[MrCharisma]

Here are a few questions that I would like answered by people like you, who would rather vilify and belittle than actually contribute!

Which is more cruel? To have numbers of people in detention decreasing (as was the case under Howard and is the case now), or to have it increasing because people smuggling is alive and well?

Which is more cruel? To allow people to drown at sea? Or to have people not attempting the dangerous journey and potentially save thousands of lives?

Which is more cruel? To have the capacity to take those already processed and waiting in refugee camps around the world (sometimes for their whole life), or to give that place to someone else who had the resources to pay for the journey to get here first?

Which is more cruel? To provide jobs and lucrative businesses to underhanded people who prey on those in vulnerable situations, offering them a false dream and hope in exchange for large sums of cash and then putting their lives at risk. Or putting those people smugglers out of business?

Nice rant/deflect, but my post was in reply to your comment that the "independent report corroborates the Pickering account".

The report doesn't corroborate with the Pickering account.

There are several wild claims made by "withheld" that are not in the report. For instance, Berati allegedly being caught raping children isn't mentioned in the report, and isn't mentioned anywhere else on the internet, by any source. Several claims are contradicted, such as "one of the detainees mooned a local police officer through the fence and was shot in the arse.", the report says there were no witnesses to the shooting.

You criticise the ABC for bias, but then you extol allegations made by a completely anonymous person, posted on an agenda driven blog owned by a self confessed conman/scammer. It's a huge double standard.

 

[MrCharisma]

Hence the suspicion that maybe something else is at play here. Or put another way, people like Gough, Maggie, Mr Charisma, RoT, Ice Wolf etc etc etc etc etc etc ... they dont really exist in the real world, do they?

Haha, could you be any more full of shit? Honestly.

 

[mottrain]

Good call. I'm happy to take the risk of looking like a dolt by saying that I suspect there are similarities in the way Power Raid and Guru Jane post. I also think mottrain is the dude who used to post in one paragraph of text with commas in between, and kept getting banned so finally learnt to not use commas. However, others have said it is an old poster whose come back after a long while.

Fine. Now answer my question. And the one from Todman too.

I am about as close to an alias sock puppet as Tamils are to totally bein all legitimate asylum seekers.

 

[mottrain]

Gurujane. You don't actually care about the relevance of any topic at all. You will defend the Abbott Government to the death.
You constantly try to change the discussion to absolutes, when there are none. You use these fake absolutes, that you created, to make an irrelevant point.
When you are called out, you ignore it completely, or you deflect.


You are one of the worst posters on this forum, but you don't care. As long as you are not banned, you will continue to propagate your pro-Abbott bullshit, no matter how many people have put you on ignore, or pointed out that you are full of shit.

Try defending your position for once, and see what happens. Don't just make grandiose statements to impress the simpletons and jump to the opposite of simplifying the argument to binary, to just suit whatever agenda you chose at the time.

It fools no one. You're an idiot.

So why will you support people coming here on leaky boats and actually risking their lives? Why won't you support stances taken through the Abbott government to take action against all those from Sri Lanka which has been a safe country from trying to manipulate or manipulating the system to take up asylum.

 

[mottrain]

I don't give a **** what the Rudd Government stated in July 2013, refugees claims still need to be investigated properly before you hand them to the people they claim they are fleeing!

So subsequently someone coming here claiming asylum from Ireland should have their claim investigated even if it is on the exact same grounds given as a Rahinga person from Burm,a??

 

[Ice-Wolf]

So subsequently someone coming here claiming asylum from Ireland should have their claim investigated even if it is on the exact same grounds given as a Rahinga person from Burm,a??

Yes they both need to be investigated properly.

 

[mottrain]

Wut?

I cannot be bothered deciphering your code, or being polite. So;
**** off, adults are talking.

No need to get angry.

1. Do you support people risking their lives coming here and if you don't why isn't Abbott's policy good then?

2. What's wrong with the Abbott government tactic to try and stop questionable asylum seekers?

 

[mottrain]

1. How is that a coherent question? How are the two actually related, other than being a shitty question?

2. I've been talking about how we treat people that we have locked up without trial. I can only guess at who you presume is a "questionable asylum seeker", so if you would like me to answer, you need some more specifics.

Edit: Sorry, yes I am being too aggressive, and that is not conducive to a reasonable debate.

So you understand the question and are choosing not to answer it because it is shitty in your opinion.

They take them to detention because they have entered the country unlawfully.

 

[mottrain]

Your question was, do I support people risking their lives? If I don't support people risking their lives why isn't Abbott's policy good then?
That is just a shit question.
I understand the question, and how you are trying to create an answer.

"I don't want people to risk their lives... Oh, Abbott's policy is good then". You caught me out, Dick. Another notch in your bed post. Put that in your detective's journal!

So you're admitting Abbott's policy is good? That's great.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

So you're admitting Abbott's policy is good. That's great.

Abbott's policy is shit, not only is turning the boats around putting the people on board at further unnecessary risk, putting them on the orange life boats is expensive. The inability to get resettled in Australia is the main deterrent, everything else is just unnecessary political grandstanding.

 

[mottrain]

Abbott's policy is shit, not only is turning the boats around putting the people on board at further unnecessary risk, putting them on the orange life boats is expensive. The inability to get resettled in Australia is the main deterrent, everything else is just unnecessary political grandstanding.

Isn't it initially expensive to put them onto a lifeboat but the costs saved over time through the fact that they don't have to have their detention paid for actually results in the cost being quite small?

 

[mottrain]

So, the people we are holding in detention should be processed asap, to save money? Rather than have men, women and children wasting away in a prison?

No and actually the government is left to clean up the way Labor let it become. The nice new approach though is preventing these costs from skyrocketing higher. There is no definitive proof that this is a prison either. This is a good policy as it is showing the no disadvantage test is real and is being applied accurately.

 

[mottrain]

I have no idea where you get your 'facts' from.

From the government.

 

[mottrain]

Like Morrison? There was no boat from SL... So why are you talking about it?
What Gov release are you talking about, that mentions SL asylum seekers?

Where did I mention Sri Lanka in the post you are referring to? As for government comments on Sri Lanka looks like a review of Bob Carr's comment in 2013 is a good point to kick it off.

 

[mottrain]

Can you give me a guide to discourse with you? Because we are on different planets.

The conversation had moved well off any reference to Sri Lanka by that point. The same question was asked without any reference to it and the discussion moved to issues of a general nature.

 

[mottrain]

Oh, so it's just when you decide then, no real rhyme or reason.
I questioned if it we should treat the people we have 'captured' better/humanely, and you tried to make it a political point.


Labor and the Coalition are both to blame for the shithouse situation we are putting refugees in. So, don't try to excuse one with the other.

Nah you chose to make it generic when the first question I asked you refused to answer and so I asked again without reference to Sri Lanka so then you answered it.

Maybe might be worth saying the Greens are responsible for the situation we are in due to their irresponsility when with Labor.

 

[mottrain]

Oh christ, dymwit.
I didn't refuse to answer your first question. I pointed out to you the logical fallacy you tried to create, and how mind-numbing you are.

I tried to get us back in to an actual discussion, I gave you a lead, I apologised. I gave you every opening you could use... and you didn't... You continued on your inept path.

No the situation we are in, is due to the greens and labor.

Stop trying to make it a left vs right issue.

It is a very complex issue, and you just can't seem to grasp anything outside of 'Abbott good, others bad'.

I can grasp it and don't because the tactic in the alternative failed.

 

[Maggie5]

Just finished reading all the news on-line and found this article very interesting.
http://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/...mils-burning-protests/1404482400#.U7dLflMfO9U
50/50 chance?
"Damningly, Howie revealed a strategic antipathy in the Australian government about monitoring asylum seekers who have been sent back. Courtesy of a freedom-of-information request, Howie discovered an email sent from Robyn Mudie, the Australian high commissioner to Sri Lanka, to senior Department of Foreign Affairs officer Bryce Hutchesson. On the matter of actively monitoring the complaints of returned people, Mudie wrote to Hutchesson that it would “run counter to Australia’s judgement that it was safe to return people”. In other words: don’t ask, don’t tell. If we have no apparatus to properly monitor complaints, then there won’t be any complaints. And if there aren’t any complaints, there’s no problem".

 

[Gough]

Perhaps this secrecy about on water issues is starting to becomea bit counter productive, creating even more of a media scrum than if a simple statement was produced. The outcome for the asylum seekers would be unlikely to change but it would stop the government leaving itself open for accusations that it is trying to hide something.

 

[GuruJane]

I can grasp it and don't because the tactic in the alternative failed.

Yes - at least Ice Wolf tries to make an effort but this poster is just full of it.

 

[mottrain]

Yes - at least Ice Wolf tries to make an effort but this poster is just full of it.

I thought that. He tries telling us neither Labor or Libs are to blame solely yet leaves out the Greens who were responsible for Labor's lovely mess in this aspect.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Yes - at least Ice Wolf tries to make an effort but this poster is just full of it.

No I don't and you can't prove that I do.

 

[GuruJane]

No I don't and you can't prove that I do.

Yes you do - you have a solution - UN camps. You say that it is essential that boat arrivals do not get priority advantage over refugees in UN camps. You say you would consider going so far as to have Australia only take refugees from UN camps. You agree that the key deterrent is that the boat arrivals know they cannot be settled here.
You would like to see a UN camp in Australia - and you expect - probably correctly - that our laws and treaty responsibilities would prevent this.

Ice-Wolf - you have clearly given the issue a great deal of thought and have come up with a plausible solution, which is in marked contrast to just about every poster on here who blows off ad boredeom at Morrison. That is why you get the GJ stamp of approval - - you'll just have to wear the embarrassment.