Coach Support a Carlton coach for once?

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J-dog

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Next step will be to bring in different and/or more experienced people alongside Teague, before getting rid of him.

He will at least get to next season, but if we have a middling year of 10 wins or less, then rejig things and don't have a good season next year, I think we will move on.

Still a long way to get to that point though, and he's not in any danger, yet. We have only had one really heavy defeat in his tenure (v Geelong in 2019) and tonight was one of the rare games since he's been in charge we were never really a chance to win, but we at least avoided a St Kildaesque destroying of our percentage.

The midfield mix still seems all wrong, like Walsh in the guts has made him into a superstar, but others seemingly lost and without a defined role.

Forward pressure tonight was non existent without JSOS. Eddie is cooked, but we don't have much else to bring in without Fisher and Martin available.

We are mid range, and needed all hands on deck and to play at our very best to have a chance tonight, and we were pretty average.
Crows last year.
Very bitter pill to swallow.
 

J-dog

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Sorry, I simply don't believe Teague should be our senior coach next year. I believe our whole footy department needs to be sacked and have said so for weeks. We are the worst coached team in the league.
Ok.
Who do we bring in?
If you could replace the whole panel, and had an open cheque book and everyone agreed to join, who do you bring in?
 

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SurreyBlue

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Teague will either make the tough/right calls shortly or he will fall on his own sword.
Statement needs to be - you earn your place by knocking hard on the door and keep it only by performing.

Plenty of players tonight under the microscope and some would be very lucky to play next week but the ‘butchers or princesses of Parkville’ who where putrid offensively and defensively tonight, should be 1st to go this week. I’m looking at you McGovern, Williamson, Gibbons and Newnes.
 

Cliffords Blues

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Sorry but I disagree.
I feel the strategy is fine but a few players cannot execute and will lose us matches regardless of the strategy.
And who picks the team each week with these 'low footy IQ players'?
Teague and his assistants are a major part of the problem due to a game plan our players obviously cannot play.
And playing players out of there natural position.
How long the club will support this is on them to decide.

Bolton apparently micromanaged the players so much they didn't know what to do.
Teauge has a high octane game plan that our players cannot execute and get murdered on the rebound.
How many goals scored against us this year from 'simple' turnovers?
Coaches box either too slow to react or do not react at all.
And then same players are back on the team sheet the following week, minus maybe a couple of sacrificial lambs to keep everyone happy.

I am not call to sack the coach, seen too many coaches at Carlton given the axe.
But for # sake can we arrive at a place were we have a game plan that reflects what we can achieve?
 

RedFury

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Sometimes you just know the coach has not got it
But do you really? Hardwick looked impotent in 2016, Buckley the same in 2017 before both clubs shuffled assistants and other chess pieces around them - and modified the game-plans and targeted some different players. The senior coach is just one bloke.

And why does it have to be player fault or coaching fault? Why can't it be a bit of both. When teams are playing badly there's rarely just one area at fault.

As someone insinuated a few weeks back, I feel like we are really setting up Teague to fail by not surrounding him with sufficient competence and experience in the football department, and I fear that extends up to the football manager.

And get rid of a few of the coach-killing players too, it's not just one problem.
 

J-dog

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And who picks the team each week with these 'low footy IQ players'?
Teague and his assistants are a major part of the problem due to a game plan our players obviously cannot play.
And playing players out of there natural position.
How long the club will support this is on them to decide.

Bolton apparently micromanaged the players so much they didn't know what to do.
Teauge has a high octane game plan that our players cannot execute and get murdered on the rebound.
How many goals scored against us this year from 'simple' turnovers?
Coaches box either too slow to react or do not react at all.
And then same players are back on the team sheet the following week, minus maybe a couple of sacrificial lambs to keep everyone happy.

I am not call to sack the coach, seen too many coaches at Carlton given the axe.
But for # sake can we arrive at a place were we have a game plan that reflects what we can achieve?
Sure. I agree with a lot of what you say.
Keep in mind Teague is one of a number who select the team.
What if Doc didn't drop all those marks? What if Cripps and co nailed 90% of their set shots? What if we actually took set shots from around 50 out? What if we stuck 80% of our tackles? What if we stopped blindly hacking the ball forward from the centre square? I don't think I'm asking too much, do you?
I didn't see Port do any of that sh*t.
I don't think Teague is training that into them, I think he's trying to train it out of them. Been like this since Ratts was coach. That's a long ******* time!
The real shame is that if we did even half of what I'm asking here, we would have been a chance to win.
 
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Wickzki

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I don't want to speculate as I have no idea. However, something smells rotten at the club right now. I don't know if its player, club, etc. related. What I do know is that it is eeping into our performances and has since the start of the season.

Further, as much as I am pro-Teague (he was one of my favorite plsyers) I don't want to blindly support him.

I do not want another messiah to come to Carlton. That means no Clarkson's who have won it all before and who's motivation to come to Carlton is related to non-Carlton issues (ala Malthouse).

If we do replace Teague, I don't mind taking on someone who has had previous coaching experience even if that experience is a failed one. In fact, someone who has had a failed experience but who has worked their way into earning a fresh opportunity after learning the lessons behind why they failed would be preferable (if Teague is jettisoned).

If I'm right that something is on the nose but it's unrelated to Teague it's wrong to dismiss him. However, if it is his responsibility, then you're left in a no-win scenario. Keep him and you end up with a rebuild or let him go and bonds he has developed could hurt elsewhere so perhaps a mini clean out is required.

My conclusion is that we build around Weiters and Walshy. As far as the coach goes, it depends on the answer to where the problem lays. If it's on Teague then sign me up for someone like Michael Voss but you better get a capable coaching staff next to him (Teague needs this too) or the endless carousel well continue.
 

OldBlueFan

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Coaches can't kick the ******* ball through the uprights for the players. How much more scoreboard pressure and momentum could we have had in that game if players had nailed their chances early? Cripps' and Newnes' misses were unforgivable.
 
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Teague will either make the tough/right calls shortly or he will fall on his own sword.
Statement needs to be - you earn your place by knocking hard on the door and keep it only by performing.

Plenty of players tonight under the microscope and some would be very lucky to play next week but the ‘butchers or princesses of Parkville’ who where putrid offensively and defensively tonight, should be 1st to go this week. I’m looking at you McGovern, Williamson, Gibbons and Newnes.
Geez, I don't know. Those players are all fringe and all we ever do is drop fringe players. No bigger names are ever held accountable.
 

gab213

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My thoughts are that he did so well as a caretaker in 2019 on the back of not his coaching but emotion of the season. The sacking of Bolton opened the players eyes and lit something and Teague’s ability to be a friend and let them play worked. As a senior coach we’ve had continuos 5 goal run ons, strange selections, lack of continuity week to week. Fix an issue this week, but that means something we did successfully the week before slips in its stead. 30+ game sample size and we’re receding. He has till middle of the year, and if we’re not in finals contention we can’t blame the players.

Middle of the year? So we're giving a rookie coach with a middle of the road team 2 years to get it right? We all know there's plenty that needs fixing bur surely he gets more than two years.
 

Metalcrusher

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Has to be a joke right?

There's obviously issues with structure gameplan and playing players out of position.

We have players looking like they're playing with no confidence as well. This is all on coaching. It's only reasonable to question the coaches. The kind of everything is fine supporter you want don't support top clubs they support St Kilda and sit on their ******* hands for 50 years and are happy with productions like 'the streak'. Sacking Teague may be premature or wrong but putting pressure on the club for selling hope and looking like a system less outfit is one hundred percent what we should be doing as supporters. The good clubs respond by fixing what's wrong. That's pretty clearly development and structure. Let's see if we start getting better at that over this season, structure and gameplan especially. I feel that will decide Teagues future more than ladder position, if that makes sense. The current game plan worked for a half vs freo and thats it. Richmond had almost 80 inside 50s against us, a bad Collingwood team smashed us, gold Coast was a system less scrap heap of a game and then this. Where we had just severe issues with players playing out of position expected to do things they cannot (Kennedy at Hf expected to be a pressure providing cog to lock it in ports f50, just isn't gonna happen).

 

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Iamcarlton

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Sure. I agree with a lot of what you say.
Keep in mind Teague is one of a number who select the team.
What if Doc didn't drop all those marks? What if Cripps and co nailed 90% of their set shots? What if we actually took set shots from around 50 out? What if we stuck 80% of our tackles? What if we stopped blindly hacking the ball forward from the centre square? I don't think I'm asking too much, do you?
I didn't see Port do any of that sh*t.
I don't think Teague is training that into them, I think he's trying to train it out of them. Been like this since Ratts was coach. That's a long ******* time!
The real shame is that if we did even half of what I'm asking here, we would have been a chance to win.
So the basics ? Get the basics right and you are in with a chance ? .
Along with showing consistent intent and willingness to outwork your opposition and we have something yes ?
This is where we are falling down in both of these areas as you outlined in most but not all games .
Your right its a recurring nightmare .
Coaching group are ultimately resposible here .
All said and done i still dont believe we have enough fully invested players of the Walsh and Weitering mould .
 

95blues

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When he took over, he said stuff about playing to strengths. So why is he continuing to play players out of their best position?

Cuningham carved it up against the * last year but we have rarely seen him in the mid since. Way to shoot confidence down in players.

I’m nt sold on Teague
Because 80% of our lists best position is unaccountable one way running HBF, and there's only 2 of those on the park at once.

He's got no choice but to try them elsewhere.

Teague took the lazy path when he got the job. Instead of correcting and re-educating like Bolton wanted to he did the whole "let the Boyz play" thing, which is why for the 20th straight year we still kick blindly like under 18s footy.
 

Iamcarlton

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Geez, I don't know. Those players are all fringe and all we ever do is drop fringe players. No bigger names are ever held accountable.
I see other clubs do it rarely happens at Carlton .
In fact cant remember the last time we saw a name senior player dropped .
Eds a warrior but how many clubs would put up with his hack kicks and not make a statement at the selection table ?
I have no doubt Murph would have been dropped at some stage at most other clubs.
His backing away from contact and tackle attempts are just not acceptable and embarrassing .
Teague is sending a poor message to the group by only dropping fringe players and it shows in our play imo .
 

Iamcarlton

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Fair dinkum we are 2-3.
I agree can easily change the narrative with a couple of wins .
But will it happen given what weve seen up till now i doubt it and this is what people are feeling .

Im not seeing anything in this group so far this year that fill me with any feeling that we are progressing as a TEAM .
I still see individuals keeping us in games but still having too many passengers and too many players senior included making the same mistakes .
 

bmaurizio

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If the next 4 games or so are beltings of over 40 points, which is not improbable, Teaugy’s position may just be untenable and could be gone by 2nd half of the season.
David needs to be more reactive and inspire change.
 

Michael Jezz

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But do you really? Hardwick looked impotent in 2016, Buckley the same in 2017 before both clubs shuffled assistants and other chess pieces around them - and modified the game-plans and targeted some different players. The senior coach is just one bloke.

And why does it have to be player fault or coaching fault? Why can't it be a bit of both. When teams are playing badly there's rarely just one area at fault.

As someone insinuated a few weeks back, I feel like we are really setting up Teague to fail by not surrounding him with sufficient competence and experience in the football department, and I fear that extends up to the football manager.

And get rid of a few of the coach-killing players too, it's not just one problem.
Hardwick had Richmond in finals before 2016. Premiership Experience. Of course give teague a year with different assistants but my gut tells me he hasnt got it
 

J-dog

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And I will blame the coach that selects them, then plays them out of position for the skillsets they possess.
If they can't kick and won't run they shouldn't get a game at all.
Doesn't matter where they play.

I do see your point though.
Hopefully Samo as a back is just a bit of development and not permanent. Fogarty has been here 5 games and is arguably doing a better job than Samo ever did. I see that as Samo's best position and I don't think he's going to take it off Fog anytime soon.
Should I blame the losses on this then? C'mon mate.

Let's see the players run and tackle hard, hit targets and kick more goals than behinds first.
Then sack the coach if we are still consistently losing.
 

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