News Swans Talk in the Media 2023

[bedford]

Knowing a relo close to him he needed a kick up the arse . Love watching him go to another level every year

 

[caesar88]

Maybe some of the reason why he became a star is because he got a reality check and changed his ways. There are pivotable moments in peoples lives and this was obviously one in Clayton's. The truth hurts sometimes. But sometimes that is what you need to hear.

There's giving someone a reality check and then there is bullying. Calling someone fat is just plain bullying.

 

[bedford]

There's giving someone a reality check and then there is bullying. Calling someone fat is just plain bullying.

He was he admits it

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

There's giving someone a reality check and then there is bullying. Calling someone fat is just plain bullying.

Hmmn. I joke about NicNat being the size of a silo. Wrong?

 

[SM]

There's giving someone a reality check and then there is bullying. Calling someone fat is just plain bullying.

It can also be something that's objectively true. I don't think using the word fat should be as shameful as you're making it, it's how we end up with a world full of fat people.

 

[bedford]

Hmmn. I joke about NicNat being the size of a silo. Wrong?

Don't worry about it Uncle

 

[SM]

If you actually read the article, it's the follow up comments that upset Oliver so much, Beatson basically saying he didn't have the skills to make it, and Oliver was upset about sitting in a meeting with someone so clearly not wanting to draft him. The fat comment makes headlines because the world has become such a soft place that daring to call someone fat is demonised, but that wasn't the point of the meeting.

 

[rustycrate]

There's giving someone a reality check and then there is bullying. Calling someone fat is just plain bullying.

Calling someone fat is not always bullying. There are factors you always have to take into account when assessing bullying. These are many but include intent.
I don't think Beetson's intent was to bully Clayton. I believe it was to elicit a response. These draftees are not primary school kids. They are almost adults and elite athletes. If you are wanting to spend a first round pick on a player you need to do due dilligence. Sometimes this is asking uncomfortable questions. Clayton was at an age appropriate age to answer that question.

 

[Ticky009]

The following 2 articles are paywalled.

Five Undefeated Teams - The Real Deals, Or Something Else - The Mongrel Punt

After two rounds, Essendon, Sydney, Collingwood, St Kilda and North Melbourne remain undefeated. . Who are the real deals in 2023?

themongrelpunt.com

And here a timely callout that Mills spent a fair part of the game out on the wing and let the younger team mates work in the middle. In hindsight I feel that perhaps we used this game against the Hawks as an opportunity to let Gulden & co get some more experience in there while Millsy and his sore hand were out of the middle

Wingman of the Year Award - Round Two Results - The Mongrel Punt

As coaches chop and change their lineups, time is right for established wingmen to make their move. Round Two Wingman of the Year results

themongrelpunt.com

And my favourite podcast Pure Footy is back

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/purefooty-episode-1-2023/video/82a85c0d1b3ae5ab1a38aabbb2c61879

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

“That’s part and parcel of it”: Swans list manager speaks on skinfold testing ban

“Someone else will take your place.”

www.sen.com.au

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Lol. Just remembered conning my way into a cricket clinic when I was around 15. I fancied myself as a keeper. A hero in Ray Slug Jordan ran the section for keepers. .

Think I had 2 overs in the middle keeping to a quick and then a spinner. I missed a ball down leg. Slug let fly with a magnificent string of very colourful invective that would make a sailor blush as he made me sprint to the boundary and back to collect the ball. He then quietly advised me on use of my feet. I never forgot tho I remained a rubbish keeper.

 

[Millky95]

I think we can say that if a young kid has a bit of extra weight on, there are better ways of asking about it than "why are you fat?" which Heeney2Franklin 's article helps shed some light on

 

[Millky95]

Lol. Just remembered conning my way into a cricket clinic when I was around 15. I fancied myself as a keeper. A hero in Ray Slug Jordan ran the section for keepers. .

Think I had 2 overs in the middle keeping to a quick and then a spinner. I missed a ball down leg. Slug let fly with a magnificent string of very colourful invective that would make a sailor blush as he made me sprint to the boundary and back to collect the ball. He then quietly advised me on use of my feet. I never forgot tho I remained a rubbish keeper.

My first ever cricket coach told me after he saw me attempt a reverse sweep in the nets that if I ever tried to do that again he would come down there and beat the shit out of me

Never tried a reverse sweep ever again. Tbf though, I was the worst batsman at my club

 

[bedford]

My first ever cricket coach told me after he saw me attempt a reverse sweep in the nets that if I ever tried to do that again he would come down there and beat the s**t out of me

Never tried a reverse sweep ever again. Tbf though, I was the worst batsman at my club

Now the thread has turned to cricket , in what context ticky lol

 

[rustycrate]

I think we can say that if a young kid has a bit of extra weight on, there are better ways of asking about it than "why are you fat?" which Heeney2Franklin 's article helps shed some light on

Not to labour the point
but
sometimes how a question is asked can be the intent.
It is direct.
What is their answer to a direct question about something they are uncomfortable about?
The answer is more about the players response to a direct question and not about the content of the answer.

There are nuances. Sometimes you cannot take things at face value even if you have the exact recording of what was said

 

[Callipygian]

Guess we can put a line through Sydney ever having a crack at Clayton Oliver

"Why are you so fat for?": Melbourne's Clayton Oliver details pre-draft meeting with AFL club, talks almost landing at Richmond

"I literally just started crying."

www.zerohanger.com

Based only on reading that article and Clarry's side of the story (which I find entirely believable) the thing I have a problem with is that Beatson's old school approach of "testing" Oliver's mental toughness was out of line. I don't have a problem with the "why are you so fat?" question in isolation (it's not cool, but by itself it could be asked in an acceptable way in my opinion). It's the idea that it is acceptable to be a bully or be nasty to test someone out. That used to be completely normal and acceptable but now it isn't and it probably already wasn't in 2015. Beatson is great at his job but I can easily believe he is a bit of a dinosaur and needs to update his ways.

We particularly need to show care when we are dealing with children who are both (a) vulnerable because they are still figuring out who they are; and (b) impressionable in that they may think this is the way things are and start copying this type of behaviour.

We have seen this sort nasty and unnecessary aggression get exposed in so many other contexts: in the military, in the judiciary, in the medical profession, in the playground, in parenting. We have a much better understanding of mental health now. We understand that vulnerability is not the same as weakness. We understand that you can have a soft/emotional side and still be hard when you need to be (at the footy, at the issue - whatever the context).

Coaches have had to change: bye bye Rocket, hello Craig McRae (not that I'm saying Fly wouldn't be able to give a spray).

Players are changing too. Darcy Moore's comments when interviewed post-game about Jeremy Howe's broken arm were strikingly next-gen. For those that didn't see them he said something like: "it's hard to keep playing when one of our teammates has been hurt so badly. It's a shame we have to, but that's the way it is".

 

[Dubsforsam1]

The idea that someone can't be called fat (even when overweight) is ridiculous especially when you are looking to be a professional athlete.

 

[Jewelsbon]

Wow plenty of posters on here coming down hard on Beatson after one, one side only article. To the best of my knowledge this man's been doing this job for over twenty years with never a word spoken against him.
Maybe before branding him a "bully", we should hear the other side of the story.

 

[rustycrate]

Based only on reading that article and Clarry's side of the story (which I find entirely believable) the thing I have a problem with is that Beatson's old school approach of "testing" Oliver's mental toughness was out of line. I don't have a problem with the "why are you so fat?" question in isolation (it's not cool, but by itself it could be asked in an acceptable way in my opinion). It's the idea that it is acceptable to be a bully or be nasty to test someone out. That used to be completely normal and acceptable but now it isn't and it probably already wasn't in 2015. Beatson is great at his job but I can easily believe he is a bit of a dinosaur and needs to update his ways.

We particularly need to show care when we are dealing with children who are both (a) vulnerable because they are still figuring out who they are; and (b) impressionable in that they may think this is the way things are and start copying this type of behaviour.

We have seen this sort nasty and unnecessary aggression get exposed in so many other contexts: in the military, in the judiciary, in the medical profession, in the playground, in parenting. We have a much better understanding of mental health now. We understand that vulnerability is not the same as weakness. We understand that you can have a soft/emotional side and still be hard when you need to be (at the footy, at the issue - whatever the context).

Coaches have had to change: bye bye Rocket, hello Craig McRae (not that I'm saying Fly wouldn't be able to give a spray).

Players are changing too. Darcy Moore's comments when interviewed post-game about Jeremy Howe's broken arm were strikingly next-gen. For those that didn't see them he said something like: "it's hard to keep playing when one of our teammates has been hurt so badly. It's a shame we have to, but that's the way it is".

You can get caught up in one players publicized response to a question he was obviously uncomfortable to answer.
But 20 other players may have answered they same question. Were they "bullied". No. Because the person on the receiving end is the only person that determines whether it is bullying.

I still say that Clayton was at an age appropriate age to answer that question. He is about to be drafted with a first round pick and paid $100s of thousands of dollars a year. I will bet there are tougher entry programs into other elite professions than the AFL.

I agree with the last 4 paragraphs of your response. I am now a primary school teacher and am like a sheepdog on issues of child protection and bullying.

 

[Callipygian]

You can get caught up in one players publicized response to a question he was obviously uncomfortable to answer.
But 20 other players may have answered they same question. Were they "bullied". No. Because the person on the receiving end is the only person that determines whether it is bullying.

I still say that Clayton was at an age appropriate age to answer that question. He is about to be drafted with a first round pick and paid $100s of thousands of dollars a year. I will bet there are tougher entry programs into other elite professions than the AFL.

I agree with the last 4 paragraphs of your response. I am now a primary school teacher and am like a sheepdog on issues of child protection and bullying.

As per my post, I don't actually find that single 'why are you so fat?' question in isolation unacceptable (nor would I want to copy or endorse it). And I'm acknowledging that we're only getting one side of the story here (Clayton's) and it may not be accurate, or it may be open to different interpretations. What I am saying is that the notion that subjecting Oliver to a series of nasty (not merely confronting but positively belittling) questions and statements in a way that was intended/designed to test out his 'toughness' is acceptable, is an antiquated notion and no longer appropriate. We have evolved.

 

[rustycrate]

As per my post, I don't actually find that single 'why are you so fat?' question in isolation unacceptable (nor would I want to copy or endorse it). And I'm acknowledging that we're only getting one side of the story here (Clayton's) and it may not be accurate, or it may be open to different interpretations. What I am saying is that the notion that subjecting Oliver to a series of nasty (not merely confronting but positively belittling) questions and statements in a way that was intended/designed to test out his 'toughness' is acceptable, is an antiquated notion and no longer appropriate. We have evolved.

I still don't believe this was Beetson's intent. Though no one knows anyones intent from a recording.
I go back to one of my previous responses

---------------

sometimes how a question is asked can be the intent.
It is direct.
What is their answer to a direct question about something they are uncomfortable about?
The answer is more about the players response to a direct question and not about the content of the answer.

There are nuances. Sometimes you cannot take things at face value even if you have the exact recording of what was said

-------------

Sometimes they just want to see how a player will react in adversity. Beetson chose weight. I will repeat that I think he was at an age appropriate age to answer that question. The fact that he fell apart shows that he was defenseless on the issue of his weight. Beetson's interest in Clayton may not have been about his weight but more about how he responded about something he was uncomfortable with. How to deal with adversity etc

 

[SM]

Again though, Beatson didn't even 'choose weight', it was a single up front question that Oliver was taken aback by, and then it was further questions about his skills and endurance that Oliver got upset by as it gave the impression we had no intention to draft him. It wasn't as if Beatson kept berating him about his weight.

 

[Nuggetz]

If Beatson didn't tell him then the dees coaching staff sure would have let him know. He avoided the fitness stuff on purpose with a bs excuse, Beatson likely knew it & then gave him a reality check with words that he still remembers. I haven't seen the entire podcast though. Beatson wouldn't be associated with the Swans if we thought he was a bully, we have higher standards imo. Good to see Clarry kicking on & becoming a gun. Who knows, that might've been exactly what he needed to push him to improve. A bit OTT calling Beatson a bully from this situation (told only by one side).

Interesting it's come out in the same week we're versing the dees.

 

[kickthething]

Seriously, a kid wanting to play AFL, a professional sport already losing 5 kilos so clearly overweight, can’t be called fat, spare me. There were no bleeding hearts I can recall when plenty here were calling Wil Gould fat…

 

[Ticky009]

Buddy talk can be found by running your mouse along the progression line. Starts about 10:14mins into the video.